Vail buys Stowe

[madhatter]

I expect them to respond with their typical arrogance, feeling that they have a superior product and hoping that a longer season will negate their crappy lift performances and ancient lodges. Walk up to the K window with $105 and you see a huge line at the K1 which is currently stopped, then you look at the ancient old triple next to it which looks like the crappy chairs at your local and much cheaper tidbit hill, and then you take a gander at the throwback K1 lodge but you can't actually get there without sliding around and feeling at risk on the crappy uncleared walkways.

All of these things would not exist at a Vail Resorts property, or would exist for a very short time before being permanently corrected. Under POWDR, this scenario repeats year after year. "But wait, we invest a lot of capital every year, you just do not see it". Sure we see it. Every time the K1 and Snowdon quad stop and hold on a calm dry day we see their "investment". Time to stop complaining about the poor handling by ASC and start actually making a difference in the lifts. How many years has POWDR been in charge? Lose the South Ridge lift and area, and gain more Magic Carpets and a wooden walkway. Both the carpets and the walkway are good things, but small in comparison to 6-pack bubble canopy chairs down the street. Sorry you lost Park City, how about growing Killington with the K profits?

Chris Nyberg, year one of Powdr ownership: "We eat what we kill", and most people believed him. Since then, the reality of corporate ownership and management has struck home. Capital allocations are made from corporate headquarters and local profitability, while important, is not the driving factor. Overall corporate performance is key. If returns on invested capital are better elsewhere, that's where the capital will flow.

we have a winner....

[SnoBrdr]

I expect them to respond with their typical arrogance, feeling that they have a superior product and hoping that a longer season will negate their crappy lift performances and ancient lodges. Walk up to the K window with $105 and you see a huge line at the K1 which is currently stopped, then you look at the ancient old triple next to it which looks like the crappy chairs at your local and much cheaper tidbit hill, and then you take a gander at the throwback K1 lodge but you can't actually get there without sliding around and feeling at risk on the crappy uncleared walkways.

All of these things would not exist at a Vail Resorts property, or would exist for a very short time before being permanently corrected. Under POWDR, this scenario repeats year after year. "But wait, we invest a lot of capital every year, you just do not see it". Sure we see it. Every time the K1 and Snowdon quad stop and hold on a calm dry day we see their "investment". Time to stop complaining about the poor handling by ASC and start actually making a difference in the lifts. How many years has POWDR been in charge? Lose the South Ridge lift and area, and gain more Magic Carpets and a wooden walkway. Both the carpets and the walkway are good things, but small in comparison to 6-pack bubble canopy chairs down the street. Sorry you lost Park City, how about growing Killington with the K profits?

Chris Nyberg, year one of Powdr ownership: "We eat what we kill", and most people believed him. Since then, the reality of corporate ownership and management has struck home. Capital allocations are made from corporate headquarters and local profitability, while important, is not the driving factor. Overall corporate performance is key. If returns on invested capital are better elsewhere, that's where the capital will flow.

we have a winner....

Not true as how can they be better than at K.

A few hundred bags of mulch compared to all the cash they bring in.

[hillbangin]

Walk up to the K window with $105 and you see a huge line at the K1 which is currently stopped, then you look at the ancient old triple next to it which looks like the crappy chairs at your local and much cheaper tidbit hill, and then you take a gander at the throwback K1 lodge but you can't actually get there without sliding around and feeling at risk on the crappy uncleared walkways.

All of these things would not exist at a Vail Resorts property, or would exist for a very short time before being permanently corrected.

Take and hour to get up the access road at 8AM - good luck finding parking.

Walk up to the window at Stowe - throw down your $ 145 - there's a 45 minute wait at the Gondi - a 35 minute wait at the Forerunner.

What's your move then?

[Mister Moose]

If returns on invested capital are thought to be better elsewhere, that's where the capital will flow.

Fixed it for you. Nothing is a sure bet. See ASC.

[madhatter]

Walk up to the K window with $105 and you see a huge line at the K1 which is currently stopped, then you look at the ancient old triple next to it which looks like the crappy chairs at your local and much cheaper tidbit hill, and then you take a gander at the throwback K1 lodge but you can't actually get there without sliding around and feeling at risk on the crappy uncleared walkways.

All of these things would not exist at a Vail Resorts property, or would exist for a very short time before being permanently corrected.

Take and hour to get up the access road at 8AM - good luck finding parking.

Walk up to the window at Stowe - throw down your $ 145 - there's a 45 minute wait at the Gondi - a 35 minute wait at the Forerunner.

What's your move then?

yep skiing weekends is busy... how we all forget the days when lift lines were considered part of the ski day, nowadays any line is a nuisance...

what's good for us isn't always goo for the mtn and vice versa...

[brownman]

Walk up to the K window with $105 and you see a huge line at the K1 which is currently stopped, then you look at the ancient old triple next to it which looks like the crappy chairs at your local and much cheaper tidbit hill, and then you take a gander at the throwback K1 lodge but you can't actually get there without sliding around and feeling at risk on the crappy uncleared walkways.

All of these things would not exist at a Vail Resorts property, or would exist for a very short time before being permanently corrected.

Take and hour to get up the access road at 8AM - good luck finding parking.

Walk up to the window at Stowe - throw down your $ 145 - there's a 45 minute wait at the Gondi - a 35 minute wait at the Forerunner.

What's your move then?

Couple of long time Stowe resident friends heard rumor last week there .. if the State approves the acquisition, Vail will petition for a 1 lane expansion of the access rd. Much like what K did years ago when it faced the same issue. That expansion here worked quite well.

That aside .. like anywhere, best way to beat Stowe lift lines is to show up way early and log big vertical before 'the Bogners' arrive.
Bigger issue is on-slope ticket sales. Walkups with vouchers or Liftopia discounts wreak havoc if only 1 window is open at the Gondi shack.
Was way worse there this season than at the K1 ticket window. K will dodge that problem if they don't get their act together soon.

Unlike K, on-slope traffic at Stowe is generally sparse due to their limited uphill capacity.
Here's what we normally see there looking uphill after a refreshing descent.

StellaScraps.PNG (474.41 KiB) Viewed 613 times

[simpletwist]

Does this mean you can only ski 10 days at Stowe total?

Will there be a Stowe only pass or are you SOOL after the 10 days and you have to pay the daily rate ?

The pages says " unlimited, unrestricted access to Stowe Mountain Resort for the 2017-2018 winter season" but then it mentions the 10 days.

It means Epic Local passholders get 10 days total at Vail, the Beav, Whistler and Stowe combined (with blackout days). Full Epic pass will provide unlimited access to all Vail resorts (no blackout days).

Also: "For guests interested in skiing Stowe exclusively, Vail Resorts anticipates offering limited Stowe-specific season pass options. Details about pricing, access and benefits will be announced after the close of the acquisition."

[simpletwist]

Vail also offers single resort pass options for Kirkwood, A-Basin and Whistler. Will be interesting to see where they price the Stowe Pass.

Kirkwood: $549
http://www.kirkwood.com/plan-your-trip/ ... lorer.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A-Basin: $319 (2016)
http://arapahoebasin.com/ABasin/tickets ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whistler: $1229 CAD
https://www.whistlerblackcomb.com/purch ... nter-17-18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[boston_e]

Does this mean you can only ski 10 days at Stowe total?

Will there be a Stowe only pass or are you SOOL after the 10 days and you have to pay the daily rate ?

The pages says " unlimited, unrestricted access to Stowe Mountain Resort for the 2017-2018 winter season" but then it mentions the 10 days.

It means Epic Local passholders get 10 days total at Vail, the Beav, Whistler and Stowe combined (with blackout days). Full Epic pass will provide unlimited access to all Vail resorts (no blackout days).

Also: "For guests interested in skiing Stowe exclusively, Vail Resorts anticipates offering limited Stowe-specific season pass options. Details about pricing, access and benefits will be announced after the close of the acquisition."

I'm thinking logic would dictate that a Stowe only pass should be cheaper than an Epic pass? So we may be looking at Stowe passes for less than $800. Will be interesting to see how K responds.

[SnoBrdr]

Does this mean you can only ski 10 days at Stowe total?

Will there be a Stowe only pass or are you SOOL after the 10 days and you have to pay the daily rate ?

The pages says " unlimited, unrestricted access to Stowe Mountain Resort for the 2017-2018 winter season" but then it mentions the 10 days.

It means Epic Local passholders get 10 days total at Vail, the Beav, Whistler and Stowe combined (with blackout days). Full Epic pass will provide unlimited access to all Vail resorts (no blackout days).

Also: "For guests interested in skiing Stowe exclusively, Vail Resorts anticipates offering limited Stowe-specific season pass options. Details about pricing, access and benefits will be announced after the close of the acquisition."

I'm thinking logic would dictate that a Stowe only pass should be cheaper than an Epic pass? So we may be looking at Stowe passes for less than $800. Will be interesting to see how K responds.

If they respond at all.

[brownman]

Yeah .. that Epic Local Pass value just doesn't compare to a full Epic.
Pay for the equivalent of ~1 lift ticket and get the unlimited portfolio.
For those in Summit County perhaps this has appeal.

[Highway Star]

Looks like the plan is indeed to have Stowe as part of the Epic pass...

http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/v ... -stowe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So a Stowe season pass will be $859.00.

Wonder how Killington will respond?

This is crazy.

We've all seen some crazy stuff in the eastern ski industry, and this one is right up there.

I personally know a good number of Killington skiers who have bought epic local passes for trips out west. Clearly they will be visiting Stowe more, even if it's just for a couple day trips. Lots of people in Burlington, Montpelier and the northern Vermont region ski, but they go other places than Stowe because of the pass prices. Clearly there will be many more regional people buying Epic passes. Boston is about 3:30 from Stowe - many Boston people buy Epic passes. Many of them will be taking weekend trips or mini-vacations to Stowe, or looking for a seasonal rental or share house (there aren't many). They are going to have serious, serious, crowding problems.

I'm wondering what Vail's play is here. Are they also going to go after Smuggler's Notch? Will they dramatically increase lift capacity, say by replacing the Lookout Double with a detach lift? Lift between the quad and gondi? Expand south into the basin where the Bruce trail goes? Or the basin east of Spruce? Could they get a new lift in this summer to increase capacity?

There are going to be some more pretty big moves happening before this all settles down.

[GlacierBoy]

"Powder praying their disjointed individual resort strategy still works."

Not true, the MAX Pass is a joint collaboration (and I guess ownership) between POWDR, Intrawest, and Boyne in association with numerous smaller independent ski areas.

Killington is shooting themselves in the ski boot now. The early bird rates for Mountain Collective, Epic, local Sugarbush and MAX passes are ending this week and next. K. Is missing the gondola... er....train. We have already jumped on the early Mtn. Collective pass.

Unless, Killington is also waiting to announce pass prices along with amazing news like $$$ infrastructure investments and a 2nd Women's World Cup weekend.

[simpletwist]

Does this mean you can only ski 10 days at Stowe total?

Will there be a Stowe only pass or are you SOOL after the 10 days and you have to pay the daily rate ?

The pages says " unlimited, unrestricted access to Stowe Mountain Resort for the 2017-2018 winter season" but then it mentions the 10 days.

It means Epic Local passholders get 10 days total at Vail, the Beav, Whistler and Stowe combined (with blackout days). Full Epic pass will provide unlimited access to all Vail resorts (no blackout days).

Also: "For guests interested in skiing Stowe exclusively, Vail Resorts anticipates offering limited Stowe-specific season pass options. Details about pricing, access and benefits will be announced after the close of the acquisition."

I'm thinking logic would dictate that a Stowe only pass should be cheaper than an Epic pass? So we may be looking at Stowe passes for less than $800. Will be interesting to see how K responds.

Tough to say. The Whistler only pass is probably the best comparison, since Whistler is also limited to 10 days on the Epic Local. Whistler only costs $918 (at today's conversion rate) but makes up for the cost increase with on mountain discounts not provided with the Epic Pass.

Or maybe we see the Stowe Local Pass for $649 with blackout dates and 5 free days out west.

[biged]

If you are sitting at the bar at a Vail resort do you pay $7 for a beer in a plastic cup or do they give you a glass?