Vail buys Stowe

[hillbangin]

Looks like the plan is indeed to have Stowe as part of the Epic pass...

http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/v ... -stowe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So a Stowe season pass will be $859.00.

Wonder how Killington will respond?

This is crazy.

We've all seen some crazy stuff in the eastern ski industry, and this one is right up there.

I personally know a good number of Killington skiers who have bought epic local passes for trips out west. Clearly they will be visiting Stowe more, even if it's just for a couple day trips. Lots of people in Burlington, Montpelier and the northern Vermont region ski, but they go other places than Stowe because of the pass prices. Clearly there will be many more regional people buying Epic passes. Boston is about 3:30 from Stowe - many Boston people buy Epic passes. Many of them will be taking weekend trips or mini-vacations to Stowe, or looking for a seasonal rental or share house (there aren't many). They are going to have serious, serious, crowding problems.

I'm wondering what Vail's play is here. Are they also going to go after Smuggler's Notch? Will they dramatically increase lift capacity, say by replacing the Lookout Double with a detach lift? Lift between the quad and gondi? Expand south into the basin where the Bruce trail goes? Or the basin east of Spruce? Could they get a new lift in this summer to increase capacity?

There are going to be some more pretty big moves happening before this all settles down.

Uhhh - We've seen this before - It's Les Otten's business plan - butt they are making money.

Nothing new here - Stowe will get new lifts, get less day visitors, get more pass holders, ( they allready have $ 25 burgers and $ 15 Martini's ), and nightly lodging rates will go through the roof.

Is that better or worse than it is today? Depends - are you a townie that can't afford a $5,000 family pass but now it's half that? Do you own a crappy hotel? Do you own a shop on the road? Did you like to go there a couple days a year because it's too far to be the home mountain?

Let's not forget - the chess move for Powdr is that the old man owns The Bird ( has not announced pass prices yet ) - I'd still take K/Bird over Stowe/Vail/Whistler any day of the week.......

[PinnacleJim]

The inclusion of Stowe on the Epic Local pass is a surprise. That pass is primarily of interest to the Denver area skiers that primarily ski Summit County but want the option to venture over Vail pass on occasion. Including Stowe for them has basically zero value. But for an eastern skier this option is a big deal. Gives them the option of a western ski vacation plus access to Stowe for 10 days.

With both Sugarbush and Okemo reducing pass prices this year, K is going to have to respond in kind or lose market share.

[Big Bob]

Looks like the plan is indeed to have Stowe as part of the Epic pass...

http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/v ... -stowe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So a Stowe season pass will be $859.00.

Wonder how Killington will respond?

This is crazy.

We've all seen some crazy stuff in the eastern ski industry, and this one is right up there.

I personally know a good number of Killington skiers who have bought epic local passes for trips out west. Clearly they will be visiting Stowe more, even if it's just for a couple day trips. Lots of people in Burlington, Montpelier and the northern Vermont region ski, but they go other places than Stowe because of the pass prices. Clearly there will be many more regional people buying Epic passes. Boston is about 3:30 from Stowe - many Boston people buy Epic passes. Many of them will be taking weekend trips or mini-vacations to Stowe, or looking for a seasonal rental or share house (there aren't many). They are going to have serious, serious, crowding problems.

I'm wondering what Vail's play is here. Are they also going to go after Smuggler's Notch? Will they dramatically increase lift capacity, say by replacing the Lookout Double with a detach lift? Lift between the quad and gondi? Expand south into the basin where the Bruce trail goes? Or the basin east of Spruce? Could they get a new lift in this summer to increase capacity?

There are going to be some more pretty big moves happening before this all settles down.

Uhhh - We've seen this before - It's Les Otten's business plan - butt they are making money.

Nothing new here - Stowe will get new lifts, get less day visitors, get more pass holders, ( they allready have $ 25 burgers and $ 15 Martini's ), and nightly lodging rates will go through the roof.

Is that better or worse than it is today? Depends - are you a townie that can't afford a $5,000 family pass but now it's half that? Do you own a crappy hotel? Do you own a shop on the road? Did you like to go there a couple days a year because it's too far to be the home mountain?

Let's not forget - the chess move for Powdr is that the old man owns The Bird ( has not announced pass prices yet ) - I'd still take K/Bird over Stowe/Vail/Whistler any day of the week.......

The Bird is not on the Maxx Pass even when all the Powdr resorts are from the inception. It is on The Mountain Collective pass however.

https://mountaincollective.com/?utm_sou ... swodHtcGAw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder why...

[madhatter]

rumor has it K passes will go on sale on/after this coming weekend...

and that didn't happen...no idea wtf K is thinking...

[wannabeskibum]

The inclusion of Stowe on the Epic Local pass is a surprise. That pass is primarily of interest to the Denver area skiers that primarily ski Summit County but want the option to venture over Vail pass on occasion. Including Stowe for them has basically zero value. But for an eastern skier this option is a big deal. Gives them the option of a western ski vacation plus access to Stowe for 10 days.

With both Sugarbush and Okemo reducing pass prices this year, K is going to have to respond in kind or lose market share.

Jim, I think you are confusing Epic Local and Summitt County Pass option -

Epic Local is all of Lake Tahoe Vail owned resorts, all of Vail owned Utah resorts, and all of CO (with the 10 day limit to Vail/Beaver/Whistler/and now Stowe) - at $639 it is a great deal - you are essentially breaking even on 5 days of skiing based on average on-line multiday lift rates across all the Vail owned resorts.

[hillbangin]

Looks like the plan is indeed to have Stowe as part of the Epic pass...

http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/v ... -stowe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So a Stowe season pass will be $859.00.

Wonder how Killington will respond?

This is crazy.

We've all seen some crazy stuff in the eastern ski industry, and this one is right up there.

I personally know a good number of Killington skiers who have bought epic local passes for trips out west. Clearly they will be visiting Stowe more, even if it's just for a couple day trips. Lots of people in Burlington, Montpelier and the northern Vermont region ski, but they go other places than Stowe because of the pass prices. Clearly there will be many more regional people buying Epic passes. Boston is about 3:30 from Stowe - many Boston people buy Epic passes. Many of them will be taking weekend trips or mini-vacations to Stowe, or looking for a seasonal rental or share house (there aren't many). They are going to have serious, serious, crowding problems.

I'm wondering what Vail's play is here. Are they also going to go after Smuggler's Notch? Will they dramatically increase lift capacity, say by replacing the Lookout Double with a detach lift? Lift between the quad and gondi? Expand south into the basin where the Bruce trail goes? Or the basin east of Spruce? Could they get a new lift in this summer to increase capacity?

There are going to be some more pretty big moves happening before this all settles down.

Uhhh - We've seen this before - It's Les Otten's business plan - butt they are making money.

Nothing new here - Stowe will get new lifts, get less day visitors, get more pass holders, ( they allready have $ 25 burgers and $ 15 Martini's ), and nightly lodging rates will go through the roof.

Is that better or worse than it is today? Depends - are you a townie that can't afford a $5,000 family pass but now it's half that? Do you own a crappy hotel? Do you own a shop on the road? Did you like to go there a couple days a year because it's too far to be the home mountain?

Let's not forget - the chess move for Powdr is that the old man owns The Bird ( has not announced pass prices yet ) - I'd still take K/Bird over Stowe/Vail/Whistler any day of the week.......

The Bird is not on the Maxx Pass even when all the Powdr resorts are from the inception. It is on The Mountain Collective pass however.

https://mountaincollective.com/?utm_sou ... swodHtcGAw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder why...

Snowbird does not need the Maxx Pass - The Powdr crew helped put the Maxx Pass together.

[Dr. NO]

Powdr has no say in Snowbird so whatever they currently have for shared passes will be what the snowbird team wants.

"Snowbird’s current management team, led by Bob Bonar, Tom Jones and Jerry Giles, will remain in place. The partnership is between the Bass and Cumming Families and does not involve Powdr Corp. Mr. Cumming will own a majority share of Snowbird. Dick Bass will remain as Chairman of the Board."

This was from the announcement of the merger with Bass and Cumming. It is a shared partnership with Cumming the majority share holder.

http://www.snowbird.com/partnership/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[brownman]

How does any of this factor into pass pricing at Stowe or at Killington.

Fwiw..
Dick Bass was a great man, a passionate visionary !
None of that ever rubbed off on Cumming.

[ME2VTSkier]

"Powder praying their disjointed individual resort strategy still works."

Not true, the MAX Pass is a joint collaboration (and I guess ownership) between POWDR, Intrawest, and Boyne in association with numerous smaller independent ski areas.

Killington is shooting themselves in the ski boot now. The early bird rates for Mountain Collective, Epic, local Sugarbush and MAX passes are ending this week and next. K. Is missing the gondola... er....train. We have already jumped on the early Mtn. Collective pass.

Unless, Killington is also waiting to announce pass prices along with amazing news like $$$ infrastructure investments and a 2nd Women's World Cup weekend.

Maybe K's early season pricing will be valid until lift-served skiing ends on Superstar for the season?!

[icedtea]

"Powder praying their disjointed individual resort strategy still works."

Not true, the MAX Pass is a joint collaboration (and I guess ownership) between POWDR, Intrawest, and Boyne in association with numerous smaller independent ski areas.

Killington is shooting themselves in the ski boot now. The early bird rates for Mountain Collective, Epic, local Sugarbush and MAX passes are ending this week and next. K. Is missing the gondola... er....train. We have already jumped on the early Mtn. Collective pass.

Unless, Killington is also waiting to announce pass prices along with amazing news like $$$ infrastructure investments and a 2nd Women's World Cup weekend.

Maybe K's early season pricing will be valid until lift-served skiing ends on Superstar for the season?!

I went with the Max Pass this year. I intended to buy a blackout pass for myself and my girl (pending prices etc.) but may just end up going with the Max Pass again.

[madhatter]

"Powder praying their disjointed individual resort strategy still works."

Not true, the MAX Pass is a joint collaboration (and I guess ownership) between POWDR, Intrawest, and Boyne in association with numerous smaller independent ski areas.

Killington is shooting themselves in the ski boot now. The early bird rates for Mountain Collective, Epic, local Sugarbush and MAX passes are ending this week and next. K. Is missing the gondola... er....train. We have already jumped on the early Mtn. Collective pass.

Unless, Killington is also waiting to announce pass prices along with amazing news like $$$ infrastructure investments and a 2nd Women's World Cup weekend.

Maybe K's early season pricing will be valid until lift-served skiing ends on Superstar for the season?!

I went with the Max Pass this year. I intended to buy a blackout pass for myself and my girl (pending prices etc.) but may just end up going with the Max Pass again.

and therein lies the crux of the matter...many are looking to buy now, and K doesn't have next years pass for sale. last years prices are posted and they are the prime season prices ( ie the highest they go)...

many will allocate dollars elsewhere in order to cash in on early pricing, some may have the same intentions as you and also may end up taking your latter option as well...

two things I was told were that passes would be out by now and that they would not be valid for the remainder of this season....but who knows how accurate that is despite coming from the season pass office itself...K is late to the table here for sure...

[ME2VTSkier]

f428ecd5ca1d40a2beb86d5140572a7e.jpg (40.62 KiB) Viewed 458 times

Any day now!

[Mister Moose]

The die is already cast.

Sugrbush: $800, $550 for MT Ellen with LP midweek
Okemo: $850, $400 Blackout
Stratton: $800, $400 Blackout
Mount Snow: $600, includes Attitash, Crotched, Hunter, Wildcat
Sunday River: $1,100, includes Loon, Sugarloaf, $740 Blackout (new pricing after April 30)

Killington very likely will come out with a full pass between $800 and $850, and include some days at Copper. et al.

[madhatter]

The die is already cast.

Sugrbush: $800, $550 for MT Ellen with LP midweek
Okemo: $850, $400 Blackout
Stratton: $800, $400 Blackout
Mount Snow: $600, includes Attitash, Crotched, Hunter, Wildcat
Sunday River: $1,100, includes Loon, Sugarloaf, $740 Blackout (new pricing after April 30)

Killington very likely will come out with a full pass between $800 and $850, and include some days at Copper. et al.

likely, but many like icetea will already have purchased elsewhere...we live/own here so we're staying but not EVERYONE is... again K is late to the table...

[PinnacleJim]

The inclusion of Stowe on the Epic Local pass is a surprise. That pass is primarily of interest to the Denver area skiers that primarily ski Summit County but want the option to venture over Vail pass on occasion. Including Stowe for them has basically zero value. But for an eastern skier this option is a big deal. Gives them the option of a western ski vacation plus access to Stowe for 10 days.

With both Sugarbush and Okemo reducing pass prices this year, K is going to have to respond in kind or lose market share.

Jim, I think you are confusing Epic Local and Summitt County Pass option -

Epic Local is all of Lake Tahoe Vail owned resorts, all of Vail owned Utah resorts, and all of CO (with the 10 day limit to Vail/Beaver/Whistler/and now Stowe) - at $639 it is a great deal - you are essentially breaking even on 5 days of skiing based on average on-line multiday lift rates across all the Vail owned resorts.

No, I have it right. And your comment is correct also (with additional detail). The Summit Value pass only includes Breck/Keystone/A-Basin. No other resorts. I have had that pass for the last 10 seasons (though I now get the senior version which is cheaper and has no Breck blackouts). The Epic Local was originally intended as a lower cost option for "local" Colorado skiers to give them access to Vail and BC. As Vail resorts has expanded and included more resorts on that pass, it now has value for more than just the Denver area skiers. And to make things a bit more confusing, there is also the Tahoe Local and Tahoe Value passes.