About 3 weeks to World Cup course pre-inspection.....

[Highway Star]

I don't know if they salted it this year or not. The snow they use for the race is very high water content, so there's very little air mixed in and it is incredibly resilient to warm temps. With so little air in it, it take much more to melt it. It's the same reason why natural snow melts so much quicker than manmade. If you're going to invest in preparing that kind of snow for a race, you do it on the same trail that you're trying to keep open the latest if you can, so even mid season they would've done it on Superstar. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

There is no way this would ever happen mid season because of the FIS calendar. HS knows absolutely nothing.

There's a reason Killington only has the option to hold an event in November, giving up a holiday weekend, half its snow and only open base area. That's because Killington is POWDR and FIS's bitch. If there was any respect at all for Killington, they would be holding a mid season season event just like major resorts out west and in Europe.

And again, it's pure fantasy that any salt or high density snow laid down in November has any effect of reducing the melt of the snow in the spring, after sitting for 6 months. Trust me, 6 months of constant r*in and melt freeze cycles does more to build up a thick layer of ice on Superstar. Salt speeds up the process of turning snow into ice by melting it so free water can refreeze, but only to a certain depth, maybe a foot at most. It washes out as the snow drains during melt cycles throughout the season, and the only thing that remaining salt does is decrease the melting temperature of the ice. Normally, there's no problem with the snow on Superstar being saturated with water, packed down and refrozen into solid ice by spring.

FIS Guide:

http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/docu ... nglish.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Explanation for lay people:

https://www.quora.com/How-does-salt-hel ... -vs-harden" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DrJeff]

I don't know if they salted it this year or not. The snow they use for the race is very high water content, so there's very little air mixed in and it is incredibly resilient to warm temps. With so little air in it, it take much more to melt it. It's the same reason why natural snow melts so much quicker than manmade. If you're going to invest in preparing that kind of snow for a race, you do it on the same trail that you're trying to keep open the latest if you can, so even mid season they would've done it on Superstar. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

There is no way this would ever happen mid season because of the FIS calendar. HS knows absolutely nothing.

There's a reason Killington only has the option to hold an event in November, giving up a holiday weekend, half it's snow and only open base area. That's because Killington is POWDR and FIS's bitch. If there was any respect at all for Killington, they would be holding a mid season season event just like major resorts out west and in Europe.

And again, it's pure fantasy that any salt or high density snow laid down in November has any effect of reducing the melt of the snow in the spring, after sitting for 6 months. Trust me, 6 months of constant r*in and melt freeze cycles do more to build up a thick layer of ice on Superstar.

Short of once every 10 to 15 years or so when either the FIS is holding the World Championships or World Cup Finals event in the US or the Olympics are in North America, please do enlighten us as to prior to the Women's World Cup hitting Squaw Valley ahead of the World Championships in Aspen earlier this year as to when the last time a mid season, non venue test event has been held in the US??

If memory serves me right,its been about 30 years since when Waterville Valley held late season tech events and Aspen held their Winternational speed and tech events. The notion that the FIS would turn it's basically set in stone schedule on end, and have the various athletes and associated coaches and tech head out of Europe and into the US for a mid season event before heading back to Europe for the rest of the schedule is just pure ignorance

[Highway Star]

I don't know if they salted it this year or not. The snow they use for the race is very high water content, so there's very little air mixed in and it is incredibly resilient to warm temps. With so little air in it, it take much more to melt it. It's the same reason why natural snow melts so much quicker than manmade. If you're going to invest in preparing that kind of snow for a race, you do it on the same trail that you're trying to keep open the latest if you can, so even mid season they would've done it on Superstar. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

There is no way this would ever happen mid season because of the FIS calendar. HS knows absolutely nothing.

There's a reason Killington only has the option to hold an event in November, giving up a holiday weekend, half it's snow and only open base area. That's because Killington is POWDR and FIS's bitch. If there was any respect at all for Killington, they would be holding a mid season season event just like major resorts out west and in Europe.

And again, it's pure fantasy that any salt or high density snow laid down in November has any effect of reducing the melt of the snow in the spring, after sitting for 6 months. Trust me, 6 months of constant r*in and melt freeze cycles do more to build up a thick layer of ice on Superstar.

Short of once every 10 to 15 years or so when either the FIS is holding the World Championships or World Cup Finals event in the US or the Olympics are in North America, please do enlighten us as to prior to the Women's World Cup hitting Squaw Valley ahead of the World Championships in Aspen earlier this year as to when the last time a mid season, non venue test event has been held in the US??

If memory serves me right,its been about 30 years since when Waterville Valley held late season tech events and Aspen held their Winternational speed and tech events. The notion that the FIS would turn it's basically set in stone schedule on end, and have the various athletes and associated coaches and tech head out of Europe and into the US for a mid season event before heading back to Europe for the rest of the schedule is just pure ignorance

Thanks for the very clear explanation of why Killington is FIS's bitch. There's no real reason why they couldn't do 2-3 weeks in the USA and Canada in the mid-season. They have no problem going to Korea, of all places, for the Olympics - what's stopping them from coming to North America mid season in a non-Olympic year?

Oh yeah, I forgot, it's because we're their bitch.

http://www.fis-ski.com/alpine-skiing/ev ... 2018-02-01" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Woodsrider]

I had an interesting conversation today with a guy I’m doing some business with. During the “how was your thanksgiving” pleasantries, he said he watched ski racing this weekend. Of course I said I was watching live. He skis out west, but said he needs to try Killington now. He didn’t realize it was such a world class resort. Then he said that when the aerial camera view panned out he could see that Killington does not have such a great snowmaking system because so little was covered. He said he will check K out later in the season after they can make enough snow. Until then he will go out west. So it seems the WC is a double edge sword. My personal opinion is the WC is great for the resort and town. But they really needs to step up their snow making game. Investing in media coverage while neglecting your customers is not a sustainable business strategy. Just as my colleague said, the race put Killy on the map. But they won’t get his business until they improve conditions.

Your colleague realizes it's November, right?

Yes of course. And after seeing what Killington is capable of with the assault on superstar, I can’t disagree with him.

So you're saying Killington needs to make more snow in November?

Manmade is nice to lay a little base down for the natural. But it's really no fun skiing on Man made. It's good practice for when it snows - that's it.

If it snowed 20 feet there would't be anybody at the mountain till New Years - and they are all gone by St Patty's day - no matter how great the conditions are.

BTW - there's NO snow out west either - it's ONLY NOVEMBER

Yes they should make more snow that I can ski on. That is why I own property at Killington and have been a pass holder for 26 years. And it’s almost December so get real. Clearly they can do it and chose not to. Killington is no longer the early season Beast.

[Woodsrider]

The business client doesn’t exist. Fake news

Opinions you don’t agree with are fake news? Sounds familiar.

[biged]

Just think if Killington had built the village with the current plans, would they be able to pull off this event with the same success? In my opinion, no, the new parking layout would be a problem.

[snoloco]

Highway Star, you have no idea what you're talking about. The FIS calendar has this time of year in North America and the only time they deviate from that is if there's a finals or an Olympics in North America. There isn't really anything that stops them from coming to North America for 2-3 weeks mid season, but they won't do it, so this is a FIS problem and not a K problem. When K got this race it's because Aspen wasn't interested in holding their Thanksgiving Weekend race anymore because they had crappy turnout and it took so many resources to hold. They're looking to have bigger events like the finals and needed to invest in that.

[hillbangin]

[/quote]
Yes they should make more snow that I can ski on. That is why I own property at Killington and have been a pass holder for 26 years. And it’s almost December so get real. Clearly they can do it and chose not to. Killington is no longer the early season Beast.[/quote]

And who had more open terrain on Thanksgiving Weekend? NOBODY

We need SNOW - not Killington to make more snow.

You can't make snow when it's r*ining and 60 degrees.

And oh by the way - you need PEOPLE to make snow - it's not like watering a lawn with a sprinkler system.

[snoloco]

Okemo and Mount Snow among others had way more open Thanksgiving weekend.

[Highway Star]

I had an interesting conversation today with a guy I’m doing some business with. During the “how was your thanksgiving” pleasantries, he said he watched ski racing this weekend. Of course I said I was watching live. He skis out west, but said he needs to try Killington now. He didn’t realize it was such a world class resort. Then he said that when the aerial camera view panned out he could see that Killington does not have such a great snowmaking system because so little was covered. He said he will check K out later in the season after they can make enough snow. Until then he will go out west. So it seems the WC is a double edge sword. My personal opinion is the WC is great for the resort and town. But they really needs to step up their snow making game. Investing in media coverage while neglecting your customers is not a sustainable business strategy. Just as my colleague said, the race put Killy on the map. But they won’t get his business until they improve conditions.

Your colleague realizes it's November, right?

Yes of course. And after seeing what Killington is capable of with the assault on superstar, I can’t disagree with him.

So you're saying Killington needs to make more snow in November?

Manmade is nice to lay a little base down for the natural. But it's really no fun skiing on Man made. It's good practice for when it snows - that's it.

If it snowed 20 feet there would't be anybody at the mountain till New Years - and they are all gone by St Patty's day - no matter how great the conditions are.

BTW - there's NO snow out west either - it's ONLY NOVEMBER

Yes they should make more snow that I can ski on. That is why I own property at Killington and have been a pass holder for 26 years. And it’s almost December so get real. Clearly they can do it and chose not to. Killington is no longer the early season Beast.

Preach on brother!!! As of now, Killington has no real early season advantage.

[Highway Star]

Highway Star, you have no idea what you're talking about. The FIS calendar has this time of year in North America and the only time they deviate from that is if there's a finals or an Olympics in North America. There isn't really anything that stops them from coming to North America for 2-3 weeks mid season, but they won't do it, so this is a FIS problem and not a K problem. When K got this race it's because Aspen wasn't interested in holding their Thanksgiving Weekend race anymore because they had crappy turnout and it took so many resources to hold. They're looking to have bigger events like the finals and needed to invest in that.

I think you're missing the point, which is that Killington is the FIS's bitch.

[DrJeff]

Okemo and Mount Snow among others had way more open Thanksgiving weekend.

Killington has an advantage at getting open 1st with the Northridge/stairs set up.

After that, their trail scheme in what gets rolled out next frankly puts them at a disadvantage with with the quantity of snow they need to blow if they want to go to the base down through the Canyon area (shortest distance) and/or the distance of basically connectors vs actual distinct trails to get to the base.

The great quantity of advanced terrain that K has that makes it appealing for the majority of the season for so many, is a competitive disadvantage when it comes to early season roll outs if one honestly thinks about it.....

[snoloco]

I already said they were a few pages back. It's what you sign up for when you host a World Cup. You're basically handing your ski area over to the FIS for two weeks and do you think they care about public terrain? Of course not. And any other resort hosting a World Cup will have the same thing. Some resorts in Europe have to close large portions of the mountain down to host World Cups. Do you think there will be public skiing during the Olympics this February? It was Killington's choice to host this and they knew full well what the effects were going to be going in. Whether you think less November terrain is worth having a World Cup is up to you. I don't like it from a personal standpoint, but it has to make sense from a business standpoint or they wouldn't have brought it back this year.

[boston_e]

Okemo and Mount Snow among others had way more open Thanksgiving weekend.

Killington has an advantage at getting open 1st with the Northridge/stairs set up.

After that, their trail scheme in what gets rolled out next frankly puts them at a disadvantage with with the quantity of snow they need to blow if they want to go to the base down through the Canyon area (shortest distance) and/or the distance of basically connectors vs actual distinct trails to get to the base.

The great quantity of advanced terrain that K has that makes it appealing for the majority of the season for so many, is a competitive disadvantage when it comes to early season roll outs if one honestly thinks about it.....

Totally agree. Once the advantage of the Northridge / stairs is gone, other places have a much more intuitive trail layout for starting up the season. As an example, lapping World Cup at Okemo for a few hours is much more interesting than lapping Great Northern (across the rime / reason intersection) to lower east fall to great northern to chute (through the mixing bowl intersection) to bunny buster.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

Highway Star, you have no idea what you're talking about. The FIS calendar has this time of year in North America and the only time they deviate from that is if there's a finals or an Olympics in North America. There isn't really anything that stops them from coming to North America for 2-3 weeks mid season, but they won't do it, so this is a FIS problem and not a K problem. When K got this race it's because Aspen wasn't interested in holding their Thanksgiving Weekend race anymore because they had crappy turnout and it took so many resources to hold. They're looking to have bigger events like the finals and needed to invest in that.

I think you're missing the point, which is that Killington is the FIS's bitch.

HersheyHighwayStar.....KZones lone bitch.