5.7 Million Capital Expenditures for 2018

[icedtea]

IM NOT ASSOCIATED WITH ANY OTHER USERNAMES ON THIS FORUM. THIS FORUM IS PATHETIC.

Skioff at 1130? TTb via Highline?

[Kpdemello]

Nah, I'm still not buying this. Blah blah blah...

That's okay, you don't have to buy it. Not sure why you're so stuck on the tires, though. You can take any modern enduro bike and for about $150 put whatever fancy DH tires you want on it. That doesn't seem like much of a bar to access.

I mean the point here is that most people can take their modern all mountain bike or enduro and have a great time at Killington bike park. Partly that's because modern bikes are more capable, and partly that's because Killington built of ton of new trails that are much easier to ride. I frequented the bike park quite a bit this year and saw a lot of all mountain and enduro style bikes and they handled it all just fine. Try it next year and you'll see.

[Highway Star]

Nah, I'm still not buying this. Blah blah blah...

That's okay, you don't have to buy it. Not sure why you're so stuck on the tires, though. You can take any modern enduro bike and for about $150 put whatever fancy DH tires you want on it. That doesn't seem like much of a bar to access.

I mean the point here is that most people can take their modern all mountain bike or enduro and have a great time at Killington bike park. Partly that's because modern bikes are more capable, and partly that's because Killington built of ton of new trails that are much easier to ride. I frequented the bike park quite a bit this year and saw a lot of all mountain and enduro style bikes and they handled it all just fine. Try it next year and you'll see.

Can you point out where I said you can't bring your trail bike to the Bike Park flow trails? That is why it's called "Bike Park" and not "Downhill". Hell, you can take a BMX bike on some of those trails.

And If you believe a modern enduro/trail bike is ANYWHERE near comparable to a decent downhill bike from the past 15 years, you probably have NEVER ridden a downhill bike.

[Kpdemello]

And If you believe a modern enduro/trail bike is ANYWHERE near comparable to a decent downhill bike from the past 15 years, you probably have NEVER ridden a downhill bike.

Yeah I think you don't really know what you're talking about, and that's okay.

[Woodsrider]

Nah, I'm still not buying this. Blah blah blah...

That's okay, you don't have to buy it. Not sure why you're so stuck on the tires, though. You can take any modern enduro bike and for about $150 put whatever fancy DH tires you want on it. That doesn't seem like much of a bar to access.

I mean the point here is that most people can take their modern all mountain bike or enduro and have a great time at Killington bike park. Partly that's because modern bikes are more capable, and partly that's because Killington built of ton of new trails that are much easier to ride. I frequented the bike park quite a bit this year and saw a lot of all mountain and enduro style bikes and they handled it all just fine. Try it next year and you'll see.

Can you point out where I said you can't bring your trail bike to the Bike Park flow trails? That is why it's called "Bike Park" and not "Downhill". Hell, you can take a BMX bike on some of those trails.

And If you believe a modern enduro/trail bike is ANYWHERE near comparable to a decent downhill bike from the past 15 years, you probably have NEVER ridden a downhill bike.

Pretty sure Sam Hill raced his enduro bike at the Cairns DH championship this year and finished 6th.

[Highway Star]

Nah, I'm still not buying this. Blah blah blah...

That's okay, you don't have to buy it. Not sure why you're so stuck on the tires, though. You can take any modern enduro bike and for about $150 put whatever fancy DH tires you want on it. That doesn't seem like much of a bar to access.

I mean the point here is that most people can take their modern all mountain bike or enduro and have a great time at Killington bike park. Partly that's because modern bikes are more capable, and partly that's because Killington built of ton of new trails that are much easier to ride. I frequented the bike park quite a bit this year and saw a lot of all mountain and enduro style bikes and they handled it all just fine. Try it next year and you'll see.

Can you point out where I said you can't bring your trail bike to the Bike Park flow trails? That is why it's called "Bike Park" and not "Downhill". Hell, you can take a BMX bike on some of those trails.

And If you believe a modern enduro/trail bike is ANYWHERE near comparable to a decent downhill bike from the past 15 years, you probably have NEVER ridden a downhill bike.

Pretty sure Sam Hill raced his enduro bike at the Cairns DH championship this year and finished 6th.

Which is again, not what I have said, ever. One of the greatest downhillers of the past decade riding a $10K+ prototype pro level enduro bike with 200mm rotors, mavic deemax (DOWNHILL) wheels, prototype DH tires, downhill drivetrain and a 170mm lyric on a smooth bike park style course has absolutely no relevance to my comparison. You could literally strip all the parts off Sam's bike and put them on a DH frame and fork, gaining about 3 lb and 1.5" of travel.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sam-hill- ... hamps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/your-esse ... -2017.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I still say you've never ridden a DH bike, otherwise you'd know the difference between the average DH bike, and the average Enduro/Trail bike. You wouldn't be making such baseless claims and blatantly ignorant comparisons.

[Woodsrider]

Nah, I'm still not buying this. Blah blah blah...

That's okay, you don't have to buy it. Not sure why you're so stuck on the tires, though. You can take any modern enduro bike and for about $150 put whatever fancy DH tires you want on it. That doesn't seem like much of a bar to access.

I mean the point here is that most people can take their modern all mountain bike or enduro and have a great time at Killington bike park. Partly that's because modern bikes are more capable, and partly that's because Killington built of ton of new trails that are much easier to ride. I frequented the bike park quite a bit this year and saw a lot of all mountain and enduro style bikes and they handled it all just fine. Try it next year and you'll see.

Can you point out where I said you can't bring your trail bike to the Bike Park flow trails? That is why it's called "Bike Park" and not "Downhill". Hell, you can take a BMX bike on some of those trails.

And If you believe a modern enduro/trail bike is ANYWHERE near comparable to a decent downhill bike from the past 15 years, you probably have NEVER ridden a downhill bike.

Pretty sure Sam Hill raced his enduro bike at the Cairns DH championship this year and finished 6th.

Which is again, not what I have said, ever. One of the greatest downhillers of the past decade riding a $10K+ prototype pro level enduro bike with 200mm rotors, mavic deemax (DOWNHILL) wheels, prototype DH tires, downhill drivetrain and a 170mm lyric on a smooth bike park style course has absolutely no relevance to my comparison. You could literally strip all the parts off Sam's bike and put them on a DH frame and fork, gaining about 3 lb and 1.5" of travel.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sam-hill- ... hamps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/your-esse ... -2017.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I still say you've never ridden a DH bike, otherwise you'd know the difference between the average DH bike, and the average Enduro/Trail bike. You wouldn't be making such baseless claims and blatantly ignorant comparisons.

Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought you said a modern enduro/trail bike is not comparable to a decent but old downhill bike and I showed you it is not only comparable to an old dh bike but it is comparable to a new pro level dh bike given the right dh course. Personally I find my $10k trail bike to be more fun on much of Killy’s trails than my $7k dh rig. Especially when I have to pedal it. There are trails I just don’t bother riding at K on my V10 because I have to pedal up to them and my v10 sucks to pedal up hill. My trail bike is also a crap load of fun on the flow trails because it only weighs 26 pounds. The 6” of travel doesn’t hold me back at all. In fact it has a dh shock and dh brakes on it. I hammer down sh*t on it and the only thing I ever broke was 1 spoke on my enve wheels launching and 8’ drop to flat and landing on a rock. I can really toss it around and it corners tight stuff better than my dh sled. Really there is no trail on k that I can’t ride my HD3. I just ride my v10 a lot faster and I don’t worry about breaking parts when I crash and not having a trail bike the next day. It is also more plush and more stable on steep and fast stuff. But if I didn’t live near a resort I would not own a dh bike. I would ride my HD3 or maybe buy and HD4 and visit resorts every now and again like most other riders. But I would still ride everything on the map. In all reality my V10 was a waste of money. If you don’t race, you really don’t need a race bike.
Oh BTW my V10 is a 2017 model. Not only top of the line, but as modern as it gets. If you still don’t think I have ever ridden a dh rig, ask Madhatter if I can ride. Just like MH, I would love to make a few turns with you at K... on either bike.

[madhatter]

That's okay, you don't have to buy it. Not sure why you're so stuck on the tires, though. You can take any modern enduro bike and for about $150 put whatever fancy DH tires you want on it. That doesn't seem like much of a bar to access.

I mean the point here is that most people can take their modern all mountain bike or enduro and have a great time at Killington bike park. Partly that's because modern bikes are more capable, and partly that's because Killington built of ton of new trails that are much easier to ride. I frequented the bike park quite a bit this year and saw a lot of all mountain and enduro style bikes and they handled it all just fine. Try it next year and you'll see.

Can you point out where I said you can't bring your trail bike to the Bike Park flow trails? That is why it's called "Bike Park" and not "Downhill". Hell, you can take a BMX bike on some of those trails.

And If you believe a modern enduro/trail bike is ANYWHERE near comparable to a decent downhill bike from the past 15 years, you probably have NEVER ridden a downhill bike.

Pretty sure Sam Hill raced his enduro bike at the Cairns DH championship this year and finished 6th.

Which is again, not what I have said, ever. One of the greatest downhillers of the past decade riding a $10K+ prototype pro level enduro bike with 200mm rotors, mavic deemax (DOWNHILL) wheels, prototype DH tires, downhill drivetrain and a 170mm lyric on a smooth bike park style course has absolutely no relevance to my comparison. You could literally strip all the parts off Sam's bike and put them on a DH frame and fork, gaining about 3 lb and 1.5" of travel.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sam-hill- ... hamps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/your-esse ... -2017.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I still say you've never ridden a DH bike, otherwise you'd know the difference between the average DH bike, and the average Enduro/Trail bike. You wouldn't be making such baseless claims and blatantly ignorant comparisons.

Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought you said a modern enduro/trail bike is not comparable to a decent but old downhill bike and I showed you it is not only comparable to an old dh bike but it is comparable to a new pro level dh bike given the right dh course. Personally I find my $10k trail bike to be more fun on much of Killy’s trails than my $7k dh rig. Especially when I have to pedal it. There are trails I just don’t bother riding at K on my V10 because I have to pedal up to them and my v10 sucks to pedal up hill. My trail bike is also a crap load of fun on the flow trails because it only weighs 26 pounds. The 6” of travel doesn’t hold me back at all. In fact it has a dh shock and dh brakes on it. I hammer down sh*t on it and the only thing I ever broke was 1 spoke on my enve wheels launching and 8’ drop to flat and landing on a rock. I can really toss it around and it corners tight stuff better than my dh sled. Really there is no trail on k that I can’t ride my HD3. I just ride my v10 a lot faster and I don’t worry about breaking parts when I crash and not having a trail bike the next day. It is also more plush and more stable on steep and fast stuff. But if I didn’t live near a resort I would not own a dh bike. I would ride my HD3 or maybe buy and HD4 and visit resorts every now and again like most other riders. But I would still ride everything on the map. In all reality my V10 was a waste of money. If you don’t race, you really don’t need a race bike.
Oh BTW my V10 is a 2017 model. Not only top of the line, but as modern as it gets. If you still don’t think I have ever ridden a dh rig, ask Madhatter if I can ride. Just like MH, I would love to make a few turns with you at K... on either bike.

Gotta agree w most of what woodsrider says...I've ridden my far less enduro like trailbike at K many times...it handles most of it well enough....even w a FIT 32 up front and rp in the back...and woodsrider definitely throws caution to the wind when it comes to riding...

[Highway Star]

Here's my original, 100% true and factual statement:

Don't believe the "Bikes are better now! They make it safe! Trust us!!!" meme. A good, well set up DH race bike from 2002 is better on DH trails than the average 5" trail bike or 6" enduro bike. Sure, bikes are somewhat better. But the biggest safety issue is that the average trail bike isn't running super soft DH compound tires (42a ST, Maxxgrip, etc), which make a huge difference.

What people are doing at Killington is not Freeride. It's called "Bike Park" riding.

It's not that "Wow, bikes are better!!!", it's that these "bike park" trails are generally easy for people with sh*t bikes and sh*t skills to ride at higher speeds. Anybody with skills can ride bike park with a hardtail. Heck, I knew people racing sport level DH on hardtails back in 2001.

[Highway Star]

Here's perfect example of "WHEN FLOW TRAILS GO WRONG":

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/sho ... Hard-Turns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3 pages of debate about getting better tires so the dude can ride flow trails better on his 29er hardtail, with plenty of people advising that he should get softer tires and probably more appropriate bike. And then this:

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/sho ... ost5084604" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plenty of under gunned and under skilled people out riding park/flow. They're going faster than their skills and equipment should allow due to the terrain being too easy to go fast on. Sooner or later they'll be paying for it with flesh and blood.

[madhatter]

Here's perfect example of "WHEN FLOW TRAILS GO WRONG":

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/sho ... Hard-Turns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3 pages of debate about getting better tires so the dude can ride flow trails better on his 29er hardtail, with plenty of people advising that he should get softer tires and probably a new bike. And then this:

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/sho ... ost5084604" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plenty of under gunned and under skilled people out riding park/flow. They're going faster than their skills and equipment should allow due to he terrain. Sooner or later they'll be paying for it with flesh and blood.

pretty much sums up mountain biking in general...

the reality is I encounter more gnar on my pedal bike than I do at K...get dinged up more on that bike too...lots of times you are going just as fast as you would be on a DH bike w far less gear and less bike too...

is there a DH bike of yesteryear that can outshine a modern enduro bike? probably...

are there any enduro bikes that are just as capable if not more than a DH bike of yesteryear? without a doubt....


is the "average enduro bike" better than the very best DH bike of yesteryear? without defining "average enduro bike" with a concrete example and also providing a "DH bike of yesteryear" with which to compare it, who the fvck knows?

[Woodsrider]

Here's my original, 100% true and factual statement:

Don't believe the "Bikes are better now! They make it safe! Trust us!!!" meme. A good, well set up DH race bike from 2002 is better on DH trails than the average 5" trail bike or 6" enduro bike. Sure, bikes are somewhat better. But the biggest safety issue is that the average trail bike isn't running super soft DH compound tires (42a ST, Maxxgrip, etc), which make a huge difference.

What people are doing at Killington is not Freeride. It's called "Bike Park" riding.

It's not that "Wow, bikes are better!!!", it's that these "bike park" trails are generally easy for people with sh*t bikes and sh*t skills to ride at higher speeds. Anybody with skills can ride bike park with a hardtail. Heck, I knew people racing sport level DH on hardtails back in 2001.

Unless you are really hard pressed, I don’t think a hardtail has any place in a bike park. That is just too dangerous imo. You just don’t have the required traction. Unless it is a fat bike of course. I let my youngest daughter ride her crappy hardtail at snowshed last year just to see if this is a sport she wanted to be in and after she refused to ride a rental. As slow as she was, I was watching her back tire bounce all over the place even at super low pressure. She loved it so I bought her a full suspension trail bike, which she rides every day. But no way I would let her ride her hardtail again at K it is too dangerous even for the flow trails.

[madhatter]

Here's my original, 100% true and factual statement:

Don't believe the "Bikes are better now! They make it safe! Trust us!!!" meme. A good, well set up DH race bike from 2002 is better on DH trails than the average 5" trail bike or 6" enduro bike. Sure, bikes are somewhat better. But the biggest safety issue is that the average trail bike isn't running super soft DH compound tires (42a ST, Maxxgrip, etc), which make a huge difference.

What people are doing at Killington is not Freeride. It's called "Bike Park" riding.

It's not that "Wow, bikes are better!!!", it's that these "bike park" trails are generally easy for people with sh*t bikes and sh*t skills to ride at higher speeds. Anybody with skills can ride bike park with a hardtail. Heck, I knew people racing sport level DH on hardtails back in 2001.

Unless you are really hard pressed, I don’t think a hardtail has any place in a bike park. That is just too dangerous imo. You just don’t have the required traction. Unless it is a fat bike of course. I let my youngest daughter ride her crappy hardtail at snowshed last year just to see if this is a sport she wanted to be in and after she refused to ride a rental. As slow as she was, I was watching her back tire bounce all over the place even at super low pressure. She loved it so I bought her a full suspension trail bike, which she rides every day. But no way I would let her ride her hardtail again at K it is too dangerous even for the flow trails.

what about dirt jumpers?

[Highway Star]

Here's my original, 100% true and factual statement:

Don't believe the "Bikes are better now! They make it safe! Trust us!!!" meme. A good, well set up DH race bike from 2002 is better on DH trails than the average 5" trail bike or 6" enduro bike. Sure, bikes are somewhat better. But the biggest safety issue is that the average trail bike isn't running super soft DH compound tires (42a ST, Maxxgrip, etc), which make a huge difference.

What people are doing at Killington is not Freeride. It's called "Bike Park" riding.

It's not that "Wow, bikes are better!!!", it's that these "bike park" trails are generally easy for people with sh*t bikes and sh*t skills to ride at higher speeds. Anybody with skills can ride bike park with a hardtail. Heck, I knew people racing sport level DH on hardtails back in 2001.

Unless you are really hard pressed, I don’t think a hardtail has any place in a bike park. That is just too dangerous imo. You just don’t have the required traction. Unless it is a fat bike of course. I let my youngest daughter ride her crappy hardtail at snowshed last year just to see if this is a sport she wanted to be in and after she refused to ride a rental. As slow as she was, I was watching her back tire bounce all over the place even at super low pressure. She loved it so I bought her a full suspension trail bike, which she rides every day. But no way I would let her ride her hardtail again at K it is too dangerous even for the flow trails.

See, now this just isn't true either. A dirt jump hardtail with DH tires and an appropriate fork tune will do just fine at a bike park. Not to mention the multi-thousand post long threads on Pinkbike of people posting their all mountain hardtails.

[Woodsrider]

Here's my original, 100% true and factual statement:

Don't believe the "Bikes are better now! They make it safe! Trust us!!!" meme. A good, well set up DH race bike from 2002 is better on DH trails than the average 5" trail bike or 6" enduro bike. Sure, bikes are somewhat better. But the biggest safety issue is that the average trail bike isn't running super soft DH compound tires (42a ST, Maxxgrip, etc), which make a huge difference.

What people are doing at Killington is not Freeride. It's called "Bike Park" riding.

It's not that "Wow, bikes are better!!!", it's that these "bike park" trails are generally easy for people with sh*t bikes and sh*t skills to ride at higher speeds. Anybody with skills can ride bike park with a hardtail. Heck, I knew people racing sport level DH on hardtails back in 2001.

Unless you are really hard pressed, I don’t think a hardtail has any place in a bike park. That is just too dangerous imo. You just don’t have the required traction. Unless it is a fat bike of course. I let my youngest daughter ride her crappy hardtail at snowshed last year just to see if this is a sport she wanted to be in and after she refused to ride a rental. As slow as she was, I was watching her back tire bounce all over the place even at super low pressure. She loved it so I bought her a full suspension trail bike, which she rides every day. But no way I would let her ride her hardtail again at K it is too dangerous even for the flow trails.

what about dirt jumpers?

My mistake. Dirt jumpers are for sure an exception. Those bikes are awesome.