madhatter wrote:In Show Of "Goodwill", Beijing Exempts US Pork, Soybeans From Trade-War Tariffs
In a show of goodwill to their people who need to eat. Meanwhile American's will have to pay for cheap toys and household goods until the OEM finds a factory elsewhere in Asia or Mexico to build the stuff. Same with electronics.
China has no leverage in this game. Their only hope is to have one of the socialists we saw on tv last night get re-elected and that ain't happening. Game over.
Rez wrote:China has no leverage in this game. Their only hope is to have one of the socialists we saw on tv last night get re-elected and that ain't happening. Game over.
It's not game over, and never will be. China will be a lasting player on the world stage, and as they educate more of their population they will slowly learn how to innovate instead of just copy. The best we can do is get the loaded dice off the board and make sure we own Boardwalk, Park Place, Pacific, North Carolina, Pennsylvania Aves, and all 4 railroads.
Rez wrote:China has no leverage in this game. Their only hope is to have one of the socialists we saw on tv last night get re-elected and that ain't happening. Game over.
It's not game over, and never will be. China will be a lasting player on the world stage, and as they educate more of their population they will slowly learn how to innovate instead of just copy. right now they really have no need to create when they can simply rip off the technology and produce it cheaper forcing the original innovators to innovate again, which the chinese will in turn ripoff again...the real lasting damage to china is the exodus of US companies in search of a new source of cheap labor, with access to shipping and raw materials...many will find their way back to the US many will not... The best we can do is get the loaded dice off the board and make sure we own Boardwalk, Park Place, Pacific, North Carolina, Pennsylvania Aves, and all 4 railroads.
it's a long road for them with many tough miles between here and parity w the US...we continue to hold the upper hand regardless of what Kpdemento imagines...
KPdemento wrote:Moose is correct. The only thing we disagree on is how best to accomplish that goal.
right you think electing one of the idiots we saw last night is the way to go, and so does china so it seems the only disagreement is on which country we are rooting for...
mach es sehr schnell
'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
China has a long way to go to come close to catching up to the Western world in terms of innovation. Freedom of thought is not part of the culture and government suppresses it. Their idea of innovation is to steal IP. So yes, more Chinese will get educated, their standard of living will creep up, their manufacturing cost advantage will diminish and they will lose their advantage. Yes, they will continue to be an economic power by virtue of their size. But the tariffs are hurting them a lot more than their tariffs are hurting us.
Many Chinese executives in the burgeoning tech sector take umbrage at the idea they don’t innovate. They feel increasingly confident they can compete head to head, engineer by engineer, with the best in Silicon Valley, Israel or other innovation hubs.
For example:
Huawei, the world leader in networking equipment and now #3 smartphone maker, has unparalleled technical breadth and has refined its models both in China and the developing world to the point where it now dominates in some Western markets.
Xiaomi, which took the smartphone industry by storm several years ago to enter the top 10 smartphone makers worldwide, produces great designs at affordable prices. It took an innovative approach to marketing by selling online only, with new models emerging rapidly. Xiaomi’s operational efficiency is second to none.
Alibaba, the largest ecommerce company in the world (the company jokes it should not be compared to Amazon, as it is so much bigger), has revolutionized the way small businesses sell and has created one of the most sophisticated and lucrative retail online ecosystems in the world. No wonder their one-day sale on November 11 (China’s “Singles Day”) grosses more revenue than Black Friday and Cyber Monday combined.
TenCent, whose Wechat application may be the world’s most dominant, with 960 million users, has not only surpassed Facebook to become the world’s fifth-most valuable company, but has become a case study for mobile gaming and the fremium model to generate revenue.
DJI is the world’s top drone maker, while Haier and Midea, top white goods and electronics manufacturers, are producing high and low-end market winners. All are rapidly upping their game through robotics and internet applications. (Midea bought Kuka, a leading German robotics maker).
These firms and many others have succeeded by applying a mix of world-class management and adapting to China’s highly competitive domestic market. Cities like Shenzhen have become software hubs for sectors such as the IOT by providing access to rapid and cost-effective hardware manufacturing.
Kpdemello wrote:Might want to rethink that perspective.
Many Chinese executives in the burgeoning tech sector take umbrage at the idea they don’t innovate. They feel increasingly confident they can compete head to head, engineer by engineer, with the best in Silicon Valley, Israel or other innovation hubs.
For example:
Huawei, the world leader in networking equipment and now #3 smartphone maker, has unparalleled technical breadth and has refined its models both in China and the developing world to the point where it now dominates in some Western markets.
Xiaomi, which took the smartphone industry by storm several years ago to enter the top 10 smartphone makers worldwide, produces great designs at affordable prices. It took an innovative approach to marketing by selling online only, with new models emerging rapidly. Xiaomi’s operational efficiency is second to none.
Alibaba, the largest ecommerce company in the world (the company jokes it should not be compared to Amazon, as it is so much bigger), has revolutionized the way small businesses sell and has created one of the most sophisticated and lucrative retail online ecosystems in the world. No wonder their one-day sale on November 11 (China’s “Singles Day”) grosses more revenue than Black Friday and Cyber Monday combined.
TenCent, whose Wechat application may be the world’s most dominant, with 960 million users, has not only surpassed Facebook to become the world’s fifth-most valuable company, but has become a case study for mobile gaming and the fremium model to generate revenue.
DJI is the world’s top drone maker, while Haier and Midea, top white goods and electronics manufacturers, are producing high and low-end market winners. All are rapidly upping their game through robotics and internet applications. (Midea bought Kuka, a leading German robotics maker).
These firms and many others have succeeded by applying a mix of world-class management and adapting to China’s highly competitive domestic market. Cities like Shenzhen have become software hubs for sectors such as the IOT by providing access to rapid and cost-effective hardware manufacturing.
If those are the examples given of their innovation, then I don't think I need to rethink my position. They'll never be leaders in innovation. Not that they won't come up with good products (with stolen IP) but they are a long way from being innovation leaders. I love how people find articles and post them like every article written speaks the truth.
Rez wrote:I love how people find articles and post them like every article written speaks the truth.
Never said this, but it certainly would help your position if you could post actual data, or maybe an article or two that backs up your point of view. Discussion without data is just meaningless jabber.
Rez wrote:I love how people find articles and post them like every article written speaks the truth.
Never said this, but it certainly would help your position if you could post actual data, or maybe an article or two that backs up your point of view. Discussion without data is just meaningless jabber.
Because published internet jabber is just so much more, you know, more meaningful than our lowly forum jabber.
What about analysis? Independent thought? Ideas? Refutation of data through other sources and observations. For instance, I can collect tons of data from people who think more grooming should be done on a powder day, they can't ski in it and they complain. Does that mean conditions suck, and we must believe it because there's almighty data to support the notion?
Rez wrote:I love how people find articles and post them like every article written speaks the truth.
Never said this, but it certainly would help your position if you could post actual data, or maybe an article or two that backs up your point of view. Discussion without data is just meaningless jabber.
Because published internet jabber is just so much more, you know, more meaningful than our lowly forum jabber.
What about analysis? Independent thought? Ideas? Refutation of data through other sources and observations. For instance, I can collect tons of data from people who think more grooming should be done on a powder day, they can't ski in it and they complain. Does that mean conditions suck, and we must believe it because there's almighty data to support the notion?
You need to get out more.
oh he's just pissed off cuz he wants trump's tariffs to fail...recession is huge part of the D platform...but have no fear warren has a plan to create one should she win...
mach es sehr schnell
'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
Rez wrote:I love how people find articles and post them like every article written speaks the truth.
Never said this, but it certainly would help your position if you could post actual data, or maybe an article or two that backs up your point of view. Discussion without data is just meaningless jabber.
My perspective is based on decades of experience in technology including actually going to China and selling technology to Chinese companies. The Chinese don't innovate as much as they copy, rip off. They've built their economy on low cost manufacturing. Have they engineers some decent products? Of course they have. But they are no where near the U.S. or the West in innovation. If you don't accept or understand then you're clueless.
So go ahead and google for meaningless articles to prove your point.
Rez wrote:I love how people find articles and post them like every article written speaks the truth.
Never said this, but it certainly would help your position if you could post actual data, or maybe an article or two that backs up your point of view. Discussion without data is just meaningless jabber.
Because published internet jabber is just so much more, you know, more meaningful than our lowly forum jabber.
What about analysis? Independent thought? Ideas? Refutation of data through other sources and observations. For instance, I can collect tons of data from people who think more grooming should be done on a powder day, they can't ski in it and they complain. Does that mean conditions suck, and we must believe it because there's almighty data to support the notion?
You need to get out more.
Why don't you post some then? All you've done is respond to my post with a personal attack rather than analyzing the data or argument. I linked a Forbes article up there, with concrete examples, not just meaningless internet jabber.
Not sure why you think I need to get out more, or what that has to do with anything we're talking about.
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Last edited by Kpdemello on Sep 15th, '19, 18:40, edited 2 times in total.
Rez wrote:I love how people find articles and post them like every article written speaks the truth.
Never said this, but it certainly would help your position if you could post actual data, or maybe an article or two that backs up your point of view. Discussion without data is just meaningless jabber.
My perspective is based on decades of experience in technology including actually going to China and selling technology to Chinese companies. The Chinese don't innovate as much as they copy, rip off. They've built their economy on low cost manufacturing. Have they engineers some decent products? Of course they have. But they are no where near the U.S. or the West in innovation. If you don't accept or understand then you're clueless.
So go ahead and google for meaningless articles to prove your point.
I'd suggest your personal anecdotal experience is likely too small a sample size to draw a valid conclusion. Certainly Chinese companies do copy technology. Many U.S. companies do the same - wasn't Microsoft Windows originally a ripoff of Xeorox or Apple, for example? Lots of other examples abound. That doesn't mean we don't also innovate, as China also innovates. I never said they were equivalent to the U.S., just that you shouldn't dismiss them so easily and derisively.
Innovation ..
If not for China, all the 2nd amendment fuss from the AR-15 dependent nut jobs would be moot.
Organizational and State sponsored IP theft has existed for decades.
Many Asian and European countries are experts at it. So are we.
Tariffs don't stop IP theft ..or much of anything.
Yay Rah Rah .. Keeping America Great
There was no pronouncement when we crossed the chasm
Many would say that our IP laws need to be revamped anyway, as it is far too easy to obtain a patent and patent litigation is extremely expensive and counterproductive. In many areas, like high technology, people would innovate without patent protection because the nature of the business requires near constant innovation, and patents often serve to restrict innovation.
Of course there are lots of other areas of IP that don't depend on patents, like trade secrets and trademark law, etc. Many companies seem willing to trade their trade secrets for access to cheap Chinese manufacturing capacity. The larger point is that the situation is a bit more complicated than "China is stealing all our IP." There is room for other countries like China to argue that our IP laws are too restrictive and they shouldn't have to be bound by them. Such a stance wouldn't necessarily be the same as, "China wants to steal all our IP."
