Tariff man strikes again

[Rez]

I love how people find articles and post them like every article written speaks the truth.

Never said this, but it certainly would help your position if you could post actual data, or maybe an article or two that backs up your point of view. Discussion without data is just meaningless jabber.

My perspective is based on decades of experience in technology including actually going to China and selling technology to Chinese companies. The Chinese don't innovate as much as they copy, rip off. They've built their economy on low cost manufacturing. Have they engineers some decent products? Of course they have. But they are no where near the U.S. or the West in innovation. If you don't accept or understand then you're clueless.

So go ahead and google for meaningless articles to prove your point.

I'd suggest your personal anecdotal experience is likely too small a sample size to draw a valid conclusion. Certainly Chinese companies do copy technology. Many U.S. companies do the same - wasn't Microsoft Windows originally a ripoff of Xeorox or Apple, for example? Lots of other examples abound. That doesn't mean we don't also innovate, as China also innovates. I never said they were equivalent to the U.S., just that you shouldn't dismiss them so easily and derisively.

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You'd suggest my personal anecdotal experience is likely to small a sample size to draw a valid conclusion? Wow, that's quite a statement coming from someone whose personal experience is likely infinitely smaller (ie. zero) than my mine. Reading your statements and opinions it's my guess that you have very little real world experience. But keep googling articles that support your position.

[Kpdemello]

Yes, in fact my suggestion is that anyone's personal anecdotal experience is too small a sample size. It was not meant as an insult or a personal attack. China's economy is large. Have you done business with every single company? Highly unlikely. Can you even say that you've done business with 10% of the companies in China? I tend to doubt it. If you're going to analyze the Chinese economy as a whole and it's capacity for technical innovation, I think you need to focus on a broader set of experiences than that of one person.

I posted an article with information that challenges your perspective. You're free to dismiss it out of hand as you did, but that doesn't mean your perspective is the truth, or that the article's position is false.

[madhatter]

Yes, in fact my suggestion is that anyone's personal anecdotal experience is too small a sample size. It was not meant as an insult or a personal attack. China's economy is large. Have you done business with every single company? Highly unlikely. Can you even say that you've done business with 10% of the companies in China? I tend to doubt it. If you're going to analyze the Chinese economy as a whole and it's capacity for technical innovation, I think you need to focus on a broader set of experiences than that of one person.

I posted an article with information that challenges your perspective. You're free to dismiss it out of hand as you did, but that doesn't mean your perspective is the truth, or that the article's position is false.

well we do have 50 years of history w china to fall back on as an indicator not only of what they have done but what they will likely continue to do if allowed...can they become innovators instead of imitators? of course but necessity is the mother of invention and right now there is little need for them to spend on R&D when they can just steal and copy not only with impunity but with monetary rewards as well.......

[Rez]

Yes, in fact my suggestion is that anyone's personal anecdotal experience is too small a sample size. It was not meant as an insult or a personal attack. China's economy is large. Have you done business with every single company? Highly unlikely. Can you even say that you've done business with 10% of the companies in China? I tend to doubt it. If you're going to analyze the Chinese economy as a whole and it's capacity for technical innovation, I think you need to focus on a broader set of experiences than that of one person.

I posted an article with information that challenges your perspective. You're free to dismiss it out of hand as you did, but that doesn't mean your perspective is the truth, or that the article's position is false.

I guess you like to argue for the sake of arguing with nothing to point to except contrarian view articles. Asking me if I've done business with every company in China? You offer zero experience and very little perspective. You also ignore reality. An affliction of the Never Trump/Resist crowd.

[madhatter]

Yes, in fact my suggestion is that anyone's personal anecdotal experience is too small a sample size. It was not meant as an insult or a personal attack. China's economy is large. Have you done business with every single company? Highly unlikely. Can you even say that you've done business with 10% of the companies in China? I tend to doubt it. If you're going to analyze the Chinese economy as a whole and it's capacity for technical innovation, I think you need to focus on a broader set of experiences than that of one person.

I posted an article with information that challenges your perspective. You're free to dismiss it out of hand as you did, but that doesn't mean your perspective is the truth, or that the article's position is false.

I guess you like to argue for the sake of arguing with nothing to point to except contrarian view articles. Asking me if I've done business with every company in China? You offer zero experience and very little perspective. You also ignore reality. An affliction of the Never Trump/Resist crowd.

BINGO!!! his every " thought" starts and ends w " orange man bad" anything else is immediately discarded...

[Kpdemello]

I guess you like to argue for the sake of arguing with nothing to point to except contrarian view articles. Asking me if I've done business with every company in China? You offer zero experience and very little perspective. You also ignore reality. An affliction of the Never Trump/Resist crowd.

Thanks for the ad hominem.

[madhatter]

I guess you like to argue for the sake of arguing with nothing to point to except contrarian view articles. Asking me if I've done business with every company in China? You offer zero experience and very little perspective. You also ignore reality. An affliction of the Never Trump/Resist crowd.

Thanks for the ad hominem.

he's not attacking you, he's describing you....quite accurately at that, probably why you find it to be an attack...

[madhatter]

Just as the US-China trade talks are set to resume at the highest level, the WTO has made a second front in the global trade war far more likely, when moments ago the World Trade Organization gave President Trump a green light to impose tariffs on as much as $7.5 billion worth of European exports annually in retaliation for illegal government aid to Airbus SE.

WTO ON WEDNESDAY ISSUED RULING ON 15-YEAR-LONG U.S. TRADE CASE VS. AIRBUS
WTO SAYS U.S. CAN RETALIATE AGAINST $7.5B IN EU GOODS A YEAR
U.S. EXPECTED TO IMPOSE TARIFFS ON EU BEFORE NEGOTIATING SETTLEMENT
U.S. HAS RIGHT TO RETALIATE FOR ILLEGAL EU SUBSIDIES TO AIRBUS -WTO

[Bubba]

Meanwhile, from the world of cause and effect...

US manufacturing survey shows worst reading in a decade

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/01/us-manu ... eningbrief" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[madhatter]

Meanwhile, from the world of cause and effect...

US manufacturing survey shows worst reading in a decade

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/01/us-manu ... eningbrief" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

definitely not a good thing but...



you'll note a reading over 50 indicates an expansion over the previous month...

The sector contracted for the first time in more than three years in August, ending a 35-month expansion period where the PMI averaged 56.5%, according to ISM.

we'll see what all this supposed "thunder" brings...headwinds abound but they also shift direction...

[Bubba]

USMCA vs. NAFTA

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/10/politics ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[madhatter]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6182.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[madhatter]

US trade deficit plunges to more than 3-year low
The trade deficit is on track for first annual decline since 2013

The U.S. trade deficit plunged to a more than three-year low in November, suggesting the Trump administration’s trade war with China was producing results.

IRAN’S OIL MUSCLE WEAKENED BY US ENERGY DOMINANCE

The deficit fell 8.2 percent to $43.1 billion, the smallest since October 2016, the Commerce Department said Tuesday. It was down 0.7 percent through the first 11 months of the year and is on track for its first annual decline since 2013.

Exports to China spiked 13.7 percent as imports fell by 9.2 percent, pushing the U.S.' trade deficit with China down by 15.7 percent to $26.4 billion. The trade deficit with the European Union narrowed by 20.2 percent $13.1 billion. President Trump has long referred to the trade balance as a scorecard of sorts for how the trade war is progressing.



The U.S. and China reached a partial trade deal on Dec. 12 after a more than 21-month-long trade battle.

A Chinese delegation is expected to arrive in Washington on Jan. 13 with a signing scheduled to take place two days later at the White House. Trump has said a comprehensive deal could be done in two or three parts.

[Rez]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN1ZF2YR" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So who had/has the leverage in this trade war?

[madhatter]

Good to see Trump's tariff policy is working:

Trump, who called for a boycott against the motorcycle company [Harley Davidson] last year amid a spat over steel, said that the EU tariffs have forced Harley to move U.S. jobs overseas. “So unfair to U.S. We will Reciprocate!” he said in a tweet citing comments by Fox Business’ Maria Bartiromo.

Harley announced plans last year to move production of its motorcycles destined for the EU to overseas facilities from the U.S. to avoid EU tariffs imposed in retaliation against Trump’s duties on aluminum and steel imports. In response, Trump called for a boycott of the company and threatened higher taxes as retaliation.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/23/harley- ... nings.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Almost a year and a half into these tariff/trade battles and not one single deal has resulted from them apart from a marginally better NAFTA 2.0 that has yet to be ratified. Anybody ready yet to concede that Trump has no idea what he's doing on trade?

demento wrong as always...