End all immigration now-legal and illegal

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XtremeJibber2001
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

madhatter wrote:
Kpdemello wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:the lack of empathy here and in the news is just shocking.
“In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.

-Captain G. M. Gilbert, the Army psychologist assigned to watching the defendants at the Nuremberg trails
8 billion + people on the planet, many will die EVERY day, EVERY one of them will eventually die...some sooner than others... :zzz

newsflash people died LONG before trump was even born, and they'll continue to do so long after he is dead...

you idiots will find any and every way you possible can to justify your hatred of trump and those who voted for him...

you gotta do what they tell you...
You're a smart guy, Madhatter, but there's one thing you either pretend to look past or fail to see.

If folks disagree with someone it doesn't mean they hate or fear them. Similarly, supporting / loving someone does not mean you agree with everything they believe or do. We don’t have to compromise our convictions to be compassionate.
madhatter
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:Growing up, I went to public schools, and was taught about our country's history. About how George Washington and the founding fathers fought for the right to be represented and have a say in government, and not be ignored and trampled on by far-off powers. About how Abraham Lincoln fought a civil war to keep the country united and how he freed the slaves. About Martin Luther King Jr. and his struggle for equal rights for all.

All though this, one concept sunk deep - that all humans are born free and equal, with certain inalienable rights. If one believes in that concept, than other axioms necessarily follow. Mistreatment of one class of people is mistreatment of all, because allowing discrimination against one allows discrimination against any. Each person is a unique human life with a right to be treated in a fair and humane manner. People shouldn't be judged and have their rights taken away without due process of law. These aren't just rights for American citizens - they're inalienable rights we are all *born* with. These concepts, to me, embody what it means to be an American.

But now we have a guy in office, as our President, whom many people unabashedly support, who is perfectly content with allowing human rights violations yeah right during a humanitarian crisis of unparalleled proportions right on our southern border. ya mean the manufactured crisis that really doesn't exist? the crisis D's have insisted is non-existent? the crisis trump has called on congress to act on since before he was elected? GFYS...Children are separated from their parents for no other reason than they are trying to travel to a foreign country. Think about that. Imagine if you took your kids to Europe, and when you got to the border, they took your kids away and put him in some camp, not letting you see them. How would you react to that? yer a complete IDIOT...none of that is even remotely accurate...if you actually believe that yer far fvcking dumber than I thought...

Then the president sets up internment camps for these refugees, they are not "internment camps" and they existed long before trump was elected...locating many outside the U.S., trump built camps outside the US? how did he do that?but he fails to ensure that there's enough food for the people who come to these camps. He's found a way to divert over a billion dollars from U.S. soldiers to build a wall, but he can't find a way to provide enough food for starving people in his camps. they are not HIS campsInstead, he blames the refugees. They're criminals, he says. They're rapists. nice try, do you even live in reality at all?Have you ever been so desperate for a better life that you've walked over a thousand miles just for a chance of making it to a better place? Have you ever risked your life, crossing a deep river with a strong current, to try to help your family live a better life? people make stupid decisions all the time...we have a process in place, they chose an alternative route...These are people we're talking about. People born equal, and free, and with those same inalienable rights to which we are all entitled. they dont; actually have a right o live here any more than I have a right to go live in there...And Trump treats them like human waste.please, get grip...

And this is just one reason among many that this administration is a disaster. It will be regarded as a dark time in our history, and future generations will look back on what this President has done with shame.and as always your "criticism" ends with the imaginary fruition of your ultimate fantasy...good luck w that...
orange man bad...it's all you know...and all you care to know...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
madhatter
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by madhatter »

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:
madhatter wrote:
Kpdemello wrote:
XtremeJibber2001 wrote:the lack of empathy here and in the news is just shocking.
“In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.

-Captain G. M. Gilbert, the Army psychologist assigned to watching the defendants at the Nuremberg trails
8 billion + people on the planet, many will die EVERY day, EVERY one of them will eventually die...some sooner than others... :zzz

newsflash people died LONG before trump was even born, and they'll continue to do so long after he is dead...

you idiots will find any and every way you possible can to justify your hatred of trump and those who voted for him...

you gotta do what they tell you...
You're a smart guy, Madhatter, but there's one thing you either pretend to look past or fail to see.

If folks disagree with someone it doesn't mean they hate or fear them. Similarly, supporting / loving someone does not mean you agree with everything they believe or do. We don’t have to compromise our convictions to be compassionate.
whatever, your "thought process" starts w your dislike of trump...call it what you want but you have very little ability to look at trump objectively...( and yer still far more objective than some of these other idiots...


trump has been calling on congress to do somethign about the border crisis and all we've seen from D's is denial that there even is a crisis, and absolute obstruction to any attempts to remedy it...D's refuse to cooperate with ICE forming sanctuary cities...D's spread propaganda like the utter BS dimento posted above...D's show footage of kids in cages from obama era and insist it's a trump policy...and the list just goes on and on and on and on. every bit of it as contrived as teh kavanaugh rape accusations were...


thousands of "screaming from the rooftop fabrications" from the left and their media whores...every one of them quickly abandoned without so much as a hint of public retraction...yet somehow you and others buy into it...wholeheartedly without a shred of doubt....not even a smidgen...it must be true, you heard about it on the news like everyone else...get the transcripts...

seriously, do you EVER question what yer told?
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
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Mister Moose
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by Mister Moose »

Kpdemello wrote:Growing up, I went to public schools, and was taught about our country's history. About how George Washington and the founding fathers fought for the right to be represented and have a say in government, and not be ignored and trampled on by far-off powers. About how Abraham Lincoln fought a civil war to keep the country united and how he freed the slaves. About Martin Luther King Jr. and his struggle for equal rights for all.

All though this, one concept sunk deep - that all humans are born free and equal, with certain inalienable rights. If one believes in that concept, than other axioms necessarily follow. Mistreatment of one class of people is mistreatment of all, because allowing discrimination against one allows discrimination against any. Each person is a unique human life with a right to be treated in a fair and humane manner. People shouldn't be judged and have their rights taken away without due process of law. These aren't just rights for American citizens - they're inalienable rights we are all *born* with. These concepts, to me, embody what it means to be an American.

But now we have a guy in office, as our President, whom many people unabashedly support, who is perfectly content with allowing human rights violations during a humanitarian crisis of unparalleled proportions right on our southern border. Children are separated from their parents for no other reason than they are trying to travel to a foreign country. Think about that. Imagine if you took your kids to Europe, and when you got to the border, they took your kids away and put him in some camp, not letting you see them. How would you react to that?

Then the president sets up internment camps for these refugees, locating many outside the U.S., but he fails to ensure that there's enough food for the people who come to these camps. He's found a way to divert over a billion dollars from U.S. soldiers to build a wall, but he can't find a way to provide enough food for starving people in his camps. Instead, he blames the refugees. They're criminals, he says. They're rapists. Have you ever been so desperate for a better life that you've walked over a thousand miles just for a chance of making it to a better place? Have you ever risked your life, crossing a deep river with a strong current, to try to help your family live a better life? These are people we're talking about. People born equal, and free, and with those same inalienable rights to which we are all entitled. And Trump treats them like human waste.

And this is just one reason among many that this administration is a disaster. It will be regarded as a dark time in our history, and future generations will look back on what this President has done with shame.
This dissertation contains the essence of why we don't agree. It starts out with rah rah feel good historical icons, and then warps and conflates itself into pure feel good with no recognition of things like laws, borders, and the need for them.

KPD wants to forgo any screening process for immigrants. Disease, criminal past, kidnapping a child, a mule carrying drugs, no matter. KPD conveniently forgets Trump was denied, and is still denied, adequate funding for care and housing of refugees and better border security. KPD ignores what happened prior to the current administration. KPD sees no difference or value between legal immigration and illegal immigration. KPD thinks if you present your family at a foreign country in the same manner, illegally, that you won't be detained, separated and jailed pending disposition of your case. And lastly, KPD seems to ignore how the thousands of refugees get here, the coyotes, the human trafficking industry, and the enticement our recent loophole filled essentially open border policy if you just utter "Asylum" has on nearby populations. That enticement, fueled by the open border rhetoric, has caused both the death of which KPD speaks (On foreign soil, but KPD lets that slide to make the story better) and the overwhelming of our ability to adequately deal with the number of border crossing asylum claimers.

Meanwhile, the US continues to be the most generous nation with foreign aid and accepting of legal immigrants.
More than 44.5 million immigrants resided in the United States in 2017, the historical high since census records have been kept. One in seven U.S. residents is foreign born, according to 2017 American Community Survey (ACS) data.
Number of legal immigrants 2017: 1,127,167. Not very dark. Not very shameful.
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daytripper
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by daytripper »

Its funny how this problem is not new, its been going on for years with the left and the right in power but it wasnt an issue until Trump came to office. Seems hypocritical to me. How come nobody was screaming about it when Obama was in office? The same thing was going on. I feel bad for people that were born in a shitty country and have no rights. I thank my lucky stars every day that I was born in the USA and dont have to deal with what they are going through. While I feel for them, its not my problem to fix. We have legal means to get into this country. Not everone is going to get in. Life is not fair. It never was and it never will be.
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by Kpdemello »

Mister Moose wrote:KPD wants to forgo any screening process for immigrants. Disease, criminal past, kidnapping a child, a mule carrying drugs, no matter.
Nonsense. I never said anything like this. All I want is a President who does not violate human rights. Separating children from parents at the border is a grave human rights violation. It's also a violation to set up detention camps and not provide adequate food. All these people want is to emmigrate. That's not a crime, and it's not a justification for taking their kids away.
Mister Moose wrote:KPD conveniently forgets Trump was denied, and is still denied, adequate funding for care and housing of refugees
So funding is the problem, huh? How come funding was not an issue in the prior administration? I'll tell you why. Because Trump changed policies that directly led to these human rights violations. This lands on him. Your attempts to absolve him are just blatant political bias on your part.

BTW, the house just passed a 4+ billion dollar funding bill and Trump has threatened to veto it. What a huge a-hole move to veto humanitarian funding for refugees. This is your President. This is his character. How can you support this?
Mister Moose wrote:KPD sees no difference or value between legal immigration and illegal immigration. KPD thinks if you present your family at a foreign country in the same manner, illegally, that you won't be detained, separated and jailed pending disposition of your case. And lastly, KPD seems to ignore how the thousands of refugees get here, the coyotes, the human trafficking industry, and the enticement our recent loophole filled essentially open border policy if you just utter "Asylum" has on nearby populations. That enticement, fueled by the open border rhetoric, has caused both the death of which KPD speaks (On foreign soil, but KPD lets that slide to make the story better) and the overwhelming of our ability to adequately deal with the number of border crossing asylum claimers.
More assumptions and nonsense that you've assumed not from anything I've actually said. If you go search my actual posts on this forum, you will find that I do want border enforcement and I don't condone uncontrolled illegal immigration. You can be in favor of those things and also be in favor of respecting human beings who show up on your doorstep and just want to come in. You don't have to let them in, but you also don't have to take their kids away and starve them. This is basic stuff.
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by Kpdemello »

What strikes me here is how little Trump supporters base their views on this immigration issue on actual facts. Moose talks about a recent loophole on assylum law. Assylum law is thousands of years old, and our country has been granting people assylum pretty much since its inception. Not only is it not new, it's ancient.

The other huge assumption is that people are coming here to get free sh*t. I venture to guess none of you Trump supporters have any experience dealing with actual immigrants and have never lived in a predominantly immigrant community. As someone who grew up in such a community (my parents were 1st generation legal immigrants), I can tell you that there is no more hard working group in the country. And before you talk about the difference between legal and illegal immigrants, I can tell you that the illegals work just as hard, if not harder, than the legal ones. Usually they have to because they get taken advantage of by U.S. businesses.

The reason these people want to come here is not free sh*t. They come here for the opportunity that this country provides. If you want to take away the incentive for people to come here, you need to do one of two things: 1) make the U.S. like a third world country so that there's no opportunity to work hard and get ahead; or 2) fix what's broken where these people are coming from so they don't have the incentive to walk a thousand miles to get to our border. No amount of wall building, border patrolling, or benefits-withholding is going to stop people willing to walk a thousand miles to seek a better life.

And lastly, lets not forget that the actual statistics show that this supposedly huge immigration problem does not and has not resulted in a measurable increase in crime or decrease in employment for citizens. If anything, in the present economy, the U.S. is short on workers and could use more immigration. In that light, this isn't a crisis at all, at least not a security crisis. It certainly is a humanitarian one. Are some of these refugees engaging in criminal behavior or trying to take advantage of the system to get benefits? Sure, a small minority. Guess what though, a larger percentage of U.S. citizens are engaging in criminal activity and trying to take advantage of the system to get benefits. That's not an immigration problem, it's a human character problem. The two are not related despite what your orange master says.
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by daytripper »

Kpdemello wrote:What strikes me here is how little Trump supporters base their views on this immigration issue on actual facts. Moose talks about a recent loophole on assylum law. Assylum law is thousands of years old, and our country has been granting people assylum pretty much since its inception. Not only is it not new, it's ancient.

The other huge assumption is that people are coming here to get free sh*t. I venture to guess none of you Trump supporters have any experience dealing with actual immigrants and have never lived in a predominantly immigrant community. As someone who grew up in such a community (my parents were 1st generation legal immigrants), I can tell you that there is no more hard working group in the country. And before you talk about the difference between legal and illegal immigrants, I can tell you that the illegals work just as hard, if not harder, than the legal ones. Usually they have to because they get taken advantage of by U.S. businesses.

The reason these people want to come here is not free sh*t. They come here for the opportunity that this country provides. If you want to take away the incentive for people to come here, you need to do one of two things: 1) make the U.S. like a third world country so that there's no opportunity to work hard and get ahead; or 2) fix what's broken where these people are coming from so they don't have the incentive to walk a thousand miles to get to our border. No amount of wall building, border patrolling, or benefits-withholding is going to stop people willing to walk a thousand miles to seek a better life.

And lastly, lets not forget that the actual statistics show that this supposedly huge immigration problem does not and has not resulted in a measurable increase in crime or decrease in employment for citizens. If anything, in the present economy, the U.S. is short on workers and could use more immigration. In that light, this isn't a crisis at all, at least not a security crisis. It certainly is a humanitarian one. Are some of these refugees engaging in criminal behavior or trying to take advantage of the system to get benefits? Sure, a small minority. Guess what though, a larger percentage of U.S. citizens are engaging in criminal activity and trying to take advantage of the system to get benefits. That's not an immigration problem, it's a human character problem. The two are not related despite what your orange master says.

So lets just let everyone in that wants to come in........that will fix the budget!
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by Kpdemello »

daytripper wrote:So lets just let everyone in that wants to come in........that will fix the budget!
Where in any of the above did I say this? I never did. In fact, if you actually read the post above, I said just the opposite.

But lets talk facts. How will allowing immigration impact the budget? You seem to be under the impression that all of these immigrants will immediately start getting government benefits. What data do you base this on? Because I don't think the data supports this conclusion.

Here, educate yourself:
https://www.clasp.org/press-room/news-c ... ts-welfare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...qualified immigrants that are new to the United States are “generally banned” from receiving welfare benefits in their first five years.
Last edited by Kpdemello on Jun 27th, '19, 07:15, edited 1 time in total.
madhatter
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:What strikes me here is how little Trump supporters base their views on this immigration issue on actual facts. Moose talks about a recent loophole on assylum law. Assylum law is thousands of years old,yeah sure it is... and our country has been granting people assylum pretty much since its inception. hardly....Not only is it not new, it's ancient.

The other huge assumption is that people are coming here to get free sh*t. I venture to guess none of you Trump supporters have any experience dealing with actual immigrants and have never lived in a predominantly immigrant community. As someone who grew up in such a community (my parents were 1st generation legal immigrants), I can tell you that there is no more hard working group in the country. And before you talk about the difference between legal and illegal immigrants, I can tell you that the illegals work just as hard, if not harder, than the legal ones. Usually they have to because they get taken advantage of by U.S. businesses.

The reason these people want to come here is not free sh*t. They come here for the opportunity that this country provides. If you want to take away the incentive for people to come here, you need to do one of two things: 1) make the U.S. like a third world country so that there's no opportunity to work hard and get ahead; or 2) fix what's broken where these people are coming from so they don't have the incentive to walk a thousand miles to get to our border. No amount of wall building, border patrolling, or benefits-withholding is going to stop people willing to walk a thousand miles to seek a better life.delusional as always...how many sneak into israel?

And lastly, lets not forget that the actual statistics show that this supposedly huge immigration problem does not and has not resulted in a measurable increase in crime or decrease in employment for citizens. If anything, in the present economy, the U.S. is short on workers and could use more immigration. In that light, this isn't a crisis at all, at least not a security crisis. It certainly is a humanitarian one. Are some of these refugees engaging in criminal behavior or trying to take advantage of the system to get benefits? Sure, a small minority. Guess what though, a larger percentage of U.S. citizens are engaging in criminal activity and trying to take advantage of the system to get benefits. That's not an immigration problem, it's a human character problem. The two are not related despite what your orange master says.
your continuial blurring of reality is pathetic...you don't have a real argument so you conflate legal, illegal, immigrant, immigration, asylum etc to fit your narrative...

we have a process, it's being gamed... the process needs to be changed...and stop pretending that asylum is granted simply because they want a better life....we provide asylum to those under repressive govt's not just anyone who wants a better life...we have an immigration process for that( different from the flawed and heavily exploited asylum program that is causing all the problems)

your argument always starts with how can I blame trump for this...and it always ends w you making some ridiculously wild stretch of reality that not only is no one else buying but it seems you don't really buy it either but rather try to sell it to those you imagine you are much smarter than...

NEWSFLASH--- yer an idiot...wait that's old news...nevermind...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
madhatter
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:
Mister Moose wrote:KPD wants to forgo any screening process for immigrants. Disease, criminal past, kidnapping a child, a mule carrying drugs, no matter.
Nonsense. I never said anything like this. All I want is a President who does not violate human rights. Separating children from parents at the border is a grave human rights violation. It's also a violation to set up detention camps and not provide adequate food. All these people want is to emmigrate. That's not a crime, and it's not a justification for taking their kids away.
Mister Moose wrote:KPD conveniently forgets Trump was denied, and is still denied, adequate funding for care and housing of refugees
So funding is the problem, huh? How come funding was not an issue in the prior administration? I'll tell you why. Because Trump changed policies that directly led to these human rights violations. This lands on him. Your attempts to absolve him are just blatant political bias on your part.

BTW, the house just passed a 4+ billion dollar funding bill and Trump has threatened to veto it. What a huge a-hole move to veto humanitarian funding for refugees. This is your President. This is his character. How can you support this?
Mister Moose wrote:KPD sees no difference or value between legal immigration and illegal immigration. KPD thinks if you present your family at a foreign country in the same manner, illegally, that you won't be detained, separated and jailed pending disposition of your case. And lastly, KPD seems to ignore how the thousands of refugees get here, the coyotes, the human trafficking industry, and the enticement our recent loophole filled essentially open border policy if you just utter "Asylum" has on nearby populations. That enticement, fueled by the open border rhetoric, has caused both the death of which KPD speaks (On foreign soil, but KPD lets that slide to make the story better) and the overwhelming of our ability to adequately deal with the number of border crossing asylum claimers.
More assumptions and nonsense that you've assumed not from anything I've actually said. If you go search my actual posts on this forum, you will find that I do want border enforcement and I don't condone uncontrolled illegal immigration. You can be in favor of those things and also be in favor of respecting human beings who show up on your doorstep and just want to come in. You don't have to let them in, but you also don't have to take their kids away and starve them. This is basic stuff.
yer dumber than a rock....they don't "take theri kids away" they house their kids while the parents are being detained and processed...what do you think happens to the thousands of legal citizen parents who go to jail? do you imagine their kids go there with them? it's also not a trump policy...

as far as starving them yer delusional again...detained illegals no doubt live far better than many of our own homeless citizens...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
daytripper
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by daytripper »

Kpdemello wrote:
daytripper wrote:So lets just let everyone in that wants to come in........that will fix the budget!
Where in any of the above did I say this? I never did. In fact, if you actually read the post above, I said just the opposite.

But lets talk facts. How will allowing immigration impact the budget? You seem to be under the impression that all of these immigrants will immediately start getting government benefits. What data do you base this on? Because I don't think the data supports this conclusion.

Here, educate yourself:
https://www.clasp.org/press-room/news-c ... ts-welfare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...qualified immigrants that are new to the United States are “generally banned” from receiving welfare benefits in their first five years.
Thats pretty much all your saying, let everyone in. I give up.
Kpdemello
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by Kpdemello »

daytripper wrote:Thats pretty much all your saying, let everyone in. I give up.
Except it's not. What I'm saying is treat people with dignity and respect. Find a way to enforce the immigration laws without taking kids away from their parents and setting up detention centers lacking adequate food. How hard is this? Take off the mask of Trump supporter and look at the real situation on the ground. It's appalling.
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by daytripper »

Kpdemello wrote:
daytripper wrote:Thats pretty much all your saying, let everyone in. I give up.
Except it's not. What I'm saying is treat people with dignity and respect. Find a way to enforce the immigration laws without taking kids away from their parents and setting up detention centers lacking adequate food. How hard is this? Take off the mask of Trump supporter and look at the real situation on the ground. It's appalling.
So if you got arrested and went to jail and your children were with you you would expect to not be seperated from them?
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Re: End all immigration now-legal and illegal

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:
daytripper wrote:Thats pretty much all your saying, let everyone in. I give up.
Except it's not. What I'm saying is treat people with dignity and respect. Find a way to enforce the immigration laws big problem, they havent been being enforced for many years...certainly prior to trump...without taking kids away from their parents not a trump policy, and they aren;t being " taken away" they arebeing cared for while their parents are unable to do so because of legal troublesand setting up detention centers lacking adequate food.you cite hearsay about a detention center IN MEXICO... How hard is this? Take off the mask of Trump supporter and look at the real situation on the ground. It's appalling.
take off the mask of a rabid trump hater, we voted for trump because he said he would address the issue ( one many of us are concerned with) we didn't become concerned with the issue because trump was elected...

your entire "thought process" is based on hating trump and anyone who voted for, supports, or even remotely agrees with him...

again the problem is the number of unqualified asylum seekers who cross the border and never go back, the porosity of the border that allows drugs, weapons and people to be smuggled across and the easily exploitable current immigration system that encourages them to come here despite not meeting criteria to gain legal asylum... D's refuse to address any of this, have no plan other than emotional appeal for political gain to ( barely) useful idiots like you and block any trump/R remedies even when they supported them prior to trump just to make sure the problem continues, again for political gain...
mach es sehr schnell

'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
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