More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

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Kpdemello
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by Kpdemello »

The death is suspicious in that it looks like the guards weren't doing their jobs in preventing it. That part of this story is common to many prison suicide cases (in my professional life I've actually investigated several of these). However, there's been no hard evidence uncovered so far that Epstein's case is anything but a suicide. The conspiracy theories that Epstein was murdered are just that, theories, and they're based on suspicions that people had motive to off this guy. But suspicions aren't evidence.

The wild theory that Clinton had anything to do with this death is pure rumor, and the fact that a sitting President would in any way endorse this theory is wildly irresponsible given his position as head of federal law enforcement. I think that part is what we're arguing about, because some people seem to think that a) there's nothing wrong with the POTUS endorsing wild, unsupported theories about Epstein's death, and b) there is some actual proof that Clinton was somehow involved here when there's been literally zero evidence connecting Clinton to this death.

Trump has as much connection to Epstein as Clinton does, and probably has just as much motive to off Epstein, and likely has more access and means to do it at this point. Yet the MAGA heads are all about Clinton conspiracy theories, and refuse to apply the same logic to their orange leader. :bang (and before you say it, no, I don't think Trump had anything to do with this death. I'm just pointing out that the flawed reasoning people used to claim that Clinton was involved could equally apply to Trump).
madhatter
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:The death is suspicious in that it looks like the guards weren't doing their jobs in preventing it. That part of this story is common to many prison suicide cases (in my professional life I've actually investigated several of these). gotta feel sorry for the people who counted on you to investigate anything....However, there's been no hard evidence uncovered so far that Epstein's case is anything but a suicide. The conspiracy theories that Epstein was murdered are just that, theories, and they're based on suspicions that people had motive to off this guy. But suspicions aren't evidence.

The wild theory that Clinton had anything to do with this death is pure rumor, and the fact that a sitting President would in any way endorse this theory is wildly irresponsible given his position as head of federal law enforcement. I think that part is what we're arguing about, because some people seem to think that a) there's nothing wrong with the POTUS endorsing wild, unsupported theories about Epstein's death, and b) there is some actual proof that Clinton was somehow involved here when there's been literally zero evidence connecting Clinton to this death.

Trump has as much connection to Epstein as Clinton does, and probably has just as much motive to off Epstein, and likely has more access and means to do it at this point. Yet the MAGA heads are all about Clinton conspiracy theories, and refuse to apply the same logic to their orange leader. :bang (and before you say it, no, I don't think Trump had anything to do with this death. I'm just pointing out that the flawed reasoning people used to claim that Clinton was involved could equally apply to Trump).
yer still an imbecile...trump clearly said he has NO IDEA if clintons were involved in epsteins death...trump doesnt have anywhere near the relationship with epstein that clinton does...

you keep blithering about this being typical and commonplace but epstein was anything but a typical or common prisoner...
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that only 29% of American Adults believe Epstein actually committed suicide while in jail. Forty-two percent (42%) think Epstein was murdered to prevent him from testifying against powerful people with whom he associated. A sizable 29% are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
now I get that you probably don't qualify as an adult, butt....
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f.a.s.t.
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by f.a.s.t. »

madhatter wrote:
Kpdemello wrote:The death is suspicious in that it looks like the guards weren't doing their jobs in preventing it. That part of this story is common to many prison suicide cases (in my professional life I've actually investigated several of these). gotta feel sorry for the people who counted on you to investigate anything....However, there's been no hard evidence uncovered so far that Epstein's case is anything but a suicide. The conspiracy theories that Epstein was murdered are just that, theories, and they're based on suspicions that people had motive to off this guy. But suspicions aren't evidence.

The wild theory that Clinton had anything to do with this death is pure rumor, and the fact that a sitting President would in any way endorse this theory is wildly irresponsible given his position as head of federal law enforcement. I think that part is what we're arguing about, because some people seem to think that a) there's nothing wrong with the POTUS endorsing wild, unsupported theories about Epstein's death, and b) there is some actual proof that Clinton was somehow involved here when there's been literally zero evidence connecting Clinton to this death.

Trump has as much connection to Epstein as Clinton does, and probably has just as much motive to off Epstein, and likely has more access and means to do it at this point. Yet the MAGA heads are all about Clinton conspiracy theories, and refuse to apply the same logic to their orange leader. :bang (and before you say it, no, I don't think Trump had anything to do with this death. I'm just pointing out that the flawed reasoning people used to claim that Clinton was involved could equally apply to Trump).
yer still an imbecile...trump clearly said he has NO IDEA if clintons were involved in epsteins death...trump doesnt have anywhere near the relationship with epstein that clinton does...

you keep blithering about this being typical and commonplace but epstein was anything but a typical or common prisoner...
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that only 29% of American Adults believe Epstein actually committed suicide while in jail. Forty-two percent (42%) think Epstein was murdered to prevent him from testifying against powerful people with whom he associated. A sizable 29% are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
now I get that you probably don't qualify as an adult, butt....
Autopsy showing broken bones, something that doesn't happen in a hanging suicide.
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madhatter
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by madhatter »

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Kpdemello
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by Kpdemello »

f.a.s.t. wrote:Autopsy showing broken bones, something that doesn't happen in a hanging suicide.
What I read was that these bones can break during a suicide, but they happen more often with strangulation.
Among the broken bones was the hyoid bone, near Epstein’s Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur when someone hangs themselves, forensics experts told the Post, but they are more often associated with homicide victims who died by strangulation.
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/45750 ... ns-mystery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again, it might end up being ruled a homicide. I don't know, I haven't seen all the evidence yet.
Kpdemello
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by Kpdemello »

Jeffrey Epstein's cause of death was suicide by hanging, the New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner said Friday.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/16/us/jeffr ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let me guess, the ME is in on the conspiracy?

But then, consider that apparently Epstein made a will two days before his death.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 059118001/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But I'm sure it's fake and put in place by the conspirators...
madhatter
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by madhatter »

Kpdemello wrote:
Jeffrey Epstein's cause of death was suicide by hanging, the New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner said Friday.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/16/us/jeffr ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let me guess, the ME is in on the conspiracy?

But then, consider that apparently Epstein made a will two days before his death.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 059118001/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But I'm sure it's fake and put in place by the conspirators...
yep nothing even remotely suspicious...typical routine commonplace prison suicide as proven by the medical report......

interesting how "uncurious" you are about certain things...

meanwhile:
Is a murder committed more heinous than a suicide allowed? In its act, sure. In this context? NO.

An “unlucky accident” like this is the ONE THING that a non-corrupt State must prevent. It’s the non-corrupt State’s ONE JOB to keep Epstein alive for trial, and everyone knows that everyone knows this is their ONE JOB.

It is impossible to violate this common knowledge without premeditation and malice, without conspiracy and criminality aforethought. It is impossible to have an “unlucky accident” like this in a non-corrupt State.

– Ben Hunt, I’m a Superstitious Man
It’s entirely fitting that the death of Jeffrey Epstein is as disturbing, shady, bizarre and seemingly inexplicable as the rest of his life. It seems as if one could research this wretched man’s time on earth for years and still come up with more questions than answers. An unfortunate reality complicated by the fact we don’t have a mass media particularly interested in asking any of the big questions, which of course is why demento has no questions either....gotta do what they tell you....such as:

Where is Ghislaine Maxwell? Why isn’t she in custody and was she a Mossad spy like her late father Robert Maxwell?

Explain the details of the relationship between Leslie Wexner and Jeffrey Epstein? Why does it seem as if Wexner helped set Epstein up with the appearance of extraordinary wealth, yet no one seems to know how Epstein actually came into all his money?

It appears sexually abusing children and accumulating associated blackmail on the rich and powerful was a full-time job for Epstein, so who was actually bankrolling/overseeing this operation? Was it Wexner, somebody else, or was it an intelligence agency as Alex Acosta claims he was told? Seems kind of important to get to the bottom of this.

I could go on and on, but then this would become a book. Rather, the purpose of this post is to highlight the outlandishness surrounding many of the details (or lack thereof) surrounding Epstein’s death a week ago in a Department of Justice operated New York City prison.

Indeed, what you’d have to believe in order to think this was a simple suicide is the actual conspiracy theory.

Let’s begin with the initial attack, which happened three weeks before his death.

The Initial Attack
As everybody knows, on July 23, Jeffrey Epstein was found in a fetal position, semi-conscious, on the floor of his cell with neck injuries. His cellmate at the time was Nicholas Tartaglione, a former New York police officer who was arrested in December 2016 on charges of killing four men in a drug distribution conspiracy.

There was a giant haze surrounding this incident up until the moment of Epstein’s death, with everyone unsure whether he was attacked or if it was a suicide attempt. According to a report by NBC News, Tartaglione was subsequently cleared the day before Epstein was found dead. I suppose that means the initial attack was belatedly ruled a suicide attempt, but why did it take so long to figure that out? It took far less time to rule Epstein’s suspicious death a suicide.

Circumstances at the Prison Surrounding the Death
Either the stars all aligned perfectly for the most important prisoner in America to kill himself on that day, or he was somehow murdered to shield an extensive list of some of the most wealthy and powerful people on earth. Decide for yourself.

– One of Epstein’s Guards Was Not a Corrections Officer

The AP reported:

A person familiar with operations at the federal jail where Jeffrey Epstein killed himself says one of the two people guarding him the night he died wasn’t a correctional officer.

The person wasn’t authorized to disclose information about the investigation and spoke on condition of anonymity.

The person said Epstein hanged himself with a bedsheet, days after being taken off a suicide watch.

Federal prisons facing shortages of fully trained guards have resorted to having other types of support staff fill in for correctional officers, including clerical workers and teachers.

– Both of the Guards Fell Asleep at the Exact Same Time Giving Epstein a Chance to Die

Guards were supposed to have checked on Epstein every 30 minutes, but rather both of them fell asleep for 3 hours during the window of Epstein’s death.

Via Business Insider:

The two prison guards assigned to monitor Jeffrey Epstein in a high-security jail fell asleep for three hours, the night he died of an apparent suicide, The New York Times reported on Tuesday, citing unnamed officials…

According to reports, there were multiple breaches in protocol regarding the supervision of Epstein: prison guards were required to check on Epstein every 30 minutes, which they failed to do, officials told The Times, and Epstein was being housed alone after his cellmate was transferred and was not replaced.

– Epstein Guards Suspected of Falsifying Logs

AP reports:

A person familiar with the probe of Jeffrey Epstein’s death at a federal jail says guards are suspected of falsifying log entries to show they were checking on inmates in his unit every half hour, when they actually weren’t.

– Key People at the Prison Are Not Cooperating with the FBI

CNN reports

Even top officials in the department have been frustrated by their inability to get some answers from the prison, in part because initial answers turned out to be inaccurate in some cases…

The FBI probe is complicated by the fact that key people involved aren’t cooperating, people briefed on the matter say.

– Epstein Was Taken off Suicide Watch Less Than a Week After His Initial Suicide Attempt

New York Magazine reports:

Epstein was taken off of suicide watch on July 29 and returned to the MCC’s special housing unit after a psychiatric evaluation determined he was no longer at risk of harming himself. The Wall Street Journal reported that Epstein’s lawyers had requested he be removed from suicide watch.

– Epstein’s Cellmate Was Removed the Day Before Epstein Died

This makes no sense, unless you’re trying to create the perfect conditions for Epstein to die.

Via CNN:

In one instance over the weekend, officials believed the former Epstein cellmate had been released on bail. But it turns out he had been moved to another facility, one person briefed on the matter said. One of the first tasks for FBI agents this week was interviewing that former cellmate, who could provide information on Epstein’s behavior in the days before his suicide.

Who was Epstein’s cellmate before he died? After the first incident, it was revealed almost immediately who his cellmate was, but there’s been little to no details about the second cellmate. Who was he and what does he have to say?

Details Surrounding the Death Itself
– Epstein Hung Himself from a Bunkbed

Via The Washington Post:

Epstein, 66, was found in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan on Saturday morning, and an official said he hanged himself with a bedsheet attached to the top of a bunk bed. Epstein was rushed to a nearby hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

The bunkbed was conveniently available due to the fact his cellmate was inexplicably moved a day before.

– Epstein Suffered Multiple Breaks in His Neck Bones, Which Is More Common in Homicides

Also via The Washington Post:

An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein suffered multiple breaks in his neck bones, according to two people familiar with the findings, deepening the mystery about the circumstances around his death.

Among the bones broken in Epstein’s neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said.

– Little to No Details About Prison Camera Footage

I assume some narrative will emerge here, but it’s already been too long for my comfort. We had all sorts of details emerge in the days following Epstein’s death, but almost nothing regarding the crucial hallway camera footage in the prison. This is something investigators would likely check immediately so why didn’t they, or if they did, why is it taking so long to inform the public?

Even Epstein’s lawyers seem confused as to whether the video footage exists.

Here is part of a statement from Epstein’s attorneys via NBC News:

“It is indisputable that the authorities violated their own protocols. The defense team fully intends to conduct its own independent and complete investigation into the circumstances and cause of Mr. Epstein’s death including if necessary legal action to view the pivotal videos — if they exist as they should — of the area proximate to Mr. Epstein’s cell during the time period leading to his death.”

Finally, it’s worth pointing out that the NYC Medical Examiners Office, which ruled Epstein’s death a suicide, has a pretty sordid history.

Check out the following from a 2014 New York Post article, Lost Bodies, Wasted Money: Inside NYC’s Medical Examiner’s Office

The city Medical Examiner’s Office is a mess — plagued with errors, including bodies being lost, mistakenly cremated or wrongly donated to science — while millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on plans and equipment useful only in a mass disaster…

Meanwhile, insiders say ME chiefs, caught up in the glamor of disaster, neglect the agency’s primary mission.

“They can’t take care of day-to-day business. They play war games,” one said.

The ME’s Office, with 625 employees and a $63.6 million budget, has a history of criminality, waste and incompetence.

The ME’s former chief of management information systems, Natarajan “Raju” Venkataram, and his co-worker girlfriend, Rosa Abreu, were busted in 2005 for embezzling more than $9 million from a $11.4 million FEMA grant meant to track and identify remains of 9/11 victims.

And bosses take lavish taxpayer-funded trips to conferences and symposiums.

Frank DePaolo, assistant commissioner for emergency management, has traveled to Las Vegas, the Hague, Hong Kong and Israel. Chief of Staff Barbara Butcher has gone to Croatia and Thailand…

The number of investigators, who examine bodies at death scenes, was slashed from about 40 to 20, among other cuts, they said.

“We’re told to do more with less, but the work is suffering,” one said.

Here’s some more while we’re at it:



If after everything I’ve highlighted, you still believe this was a simple suicide that’s fine. Anything is possible, but it really doesn’t matter. Even if it was mere incompetence that allowed a suicide to occur, this still demonstrates without a shadow of a doubt that the federal government is incapable or unwilling to protect the public.

The Epstein case was and remains a matter of extreme public interest since this was a man who systematically sexually abused and trafficked children while closely associating with, and collecting blackmail on, a large slew of the most wealthy and powerful people on the planet. If the government can’t protect you from that, and it most certainly went out of its way to deny justice for this criminal over decades including within prison itself, then you can’t trust the government for anything. As such, whenever the feds claim they’re doing something extreme to protect you, whether it’s mass surveillance or encryption backdoors, you can be 100% sure it is a giant heap of stinking sh*t.

The narrative now being formed is that it was all just a lot of incompetence. That the guards were tired and overworked. We’re also being told that it’s normal for an inmate on suicide watch to come off after a few days, but Jeffrey Epstein was not a normal inmate. Epstein and the people around him belong to a class I refer to as super predators, which are the most dangerous predators in society because their elite connections allow them to get away with anything and everything.

It’s become completely clear that rather than stopping such people and their criminal rings, the U.S. government protects them and ensures no justice is ever served upon them, even up to their last breath.

Our government isn’t there to protect us, save us or dispense any justice. Instead, it seemingly exists to protect, serve and encourage the elite criminal rings operating around us in plain sight, whether it’s bank CEOs or pedophile sex traffickers with apparent intelligence links.

We are truly ruled by gangsters.



* * *
most high profile prisoner in recent times...
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XtremeJibber2001
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

While I think the whole thing stinks ...

... it could also just be as stated ... lazy and/or overworked employees sleeping on the job.
Kpdemello
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by Kpdemello »

XtremeJibber2001 wrote:While I think the whole thing stinks ...

... it could also just be as stated ... lazy and/or overworked employees sleeping on the job.
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

People like a juicy story, and the media is pushing this as a juicy story. There's certainly interesting and curious elements to it, given what this guy was accused of doing and the powerful people he hung out with. It's entertaining and it sells, so the media plays up the suspicious elements of it. But if you look at the actual evidence, it's pretty clear what happened here. You had a guy who was finally caught for doing a really heinous thing, who was miserably ill suited to prison life, who knew he had no chance of getting out of this, who had already tried to commit suicide once before, who had just completed his will, and who was found having strangled himself. I have yet to read any reports at all that there was evidence of homicide. It seems to me that the only real question here is whether the prison guards were negligent in preventing this (seems like they were).
madhatter
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by madhatter »

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/abc ... n-evidence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ABC Anchor Admits Network Covered Up Epstein Evidence For Years: Veritas

duh...
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madhatter
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Re: More sexual abuse acusations for Bill Clinton?

Post by madhatter »

FBI Treating Epstein Death As Criminal Matter After Guards Arrested

no way?
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