Urgent -- Conn. ATV Legislation

SloeRide · Post by **SloeRide** » May 25th, '05, 10:25

I know we have a lot of nutmeggers, hikers and MTBr's out there and eveyone has delat with the damage ATvs have done. I'm by far more of a mountain biker than a hiker, but I think its time for all musle-powered user groups to work together against the onlslaught of ATV damage. I've been talking with CFPA about pending ATV Legislation HB 5599. I think we all should work together on this one.

This is the letter from them --

Please send this out to your mountain biking crowd. This went out to the hiking, land trust and enviro community. My organization, Connecticut Forest & Park Association started, has maintained and continues to expand the Blue Trail System for almost 80 years now. While there has been some contention between our trail managers and the mountain biking community in the past, I believe we are coming to terms with the need for muscle powered recreation to band together in order to deal with the motorized threat - which is more devastating to ecosystems, habitats and open spaces than anything we could have dealt with in the past.

HB 5599 - This bill expands the registration requirements for ATVs; increases the registration fee and the fine for operating an unregistered ATVs or snowmobile; creates an ATV account within the Conservation Fund to fund ATV-related uses and restricts ATVs and snowmobile use on state-owned and managed-lands. If many of us had our druthers ATVuse would be banned from the state - but this is a good bill that will get us protections we need and get them places to ride their ATVs. At this time law enforcement (many who are ATV riders) don't really enforce ATV trespass because they sympathise with the fact that ATV have no place to go. It will be easier to get enforcement and cooperation if this bill is passed.

I am going to ask you all to send notes to and call your elected officials - State House and Senate, and ask them to support HB 5599 as it stands without amendments and to vote down any other amendments brought to the floor that would create loopholes for ATV owners to avoid registration AND IDENTIFICATION. I would also like you to contact Senator Don Williams office with the same message, to give him some 'cover' and remind him of his promise to kill any bill that allows for loopholes in the registration effort. Senator William's contact information email - Williams@senatedems.ct.gov

The phone number is 860-240-8600 (In this case you won't get to speak to the Senator directly, but ask if you can talk to May Flexor in Senator Williams office. He has a long history with the ATV issue and is informally assigned to it for the Senator.

You should both call and email - particularly if you have photos of ATV damage you can add to the email.

If you want to find out who your state legislators are go to the website http://www.cga.ct.gov and follow the search engine links. You can also view 5599 and other ATVrelated bills and information.

Good points to make when talking about the registration and identification issue for ATV.

1. There is currently a loophole in the registration statutes allowing ATV to be unregistered for use on their own land. Out of the 70,000 ATV estimated in CT now, only 4000 of them of registered.

2. Registration allows the ATV community to create a pot of money that will buy them lands to ride on.

3. Land trusts, trails groups, conservation non-profits, private landowners all raise the money to buy their own lands - these lands are being illegally trespassed on now by the unregistered ATVriders.
Why should the ATV riders get a free ride?

4. Land trusts, nonprofits, trails groups also raise money to maintain land and trails, they organize volunteers to do the work, hiring lawyers, doing surveys etc. Why should the ATV community be held to less of a standard than the conservation community...for a more impactive use?

5. ATV are not the same as farm equipment or riding lawnmowers. Most opponents of ATV registration do not want to pay local property taxes on their recreational vehicles. At this time boat owners, hunters and
horse back riders are paying property taxes and fees for their recreation. ATV dealers do not want the registration because they feel that people who are in the market to buy an ATV will leave the state to do so if their is off dealership registration requirements.

6. We encourage the state to find places for ATV use, but that shouldn't include our state forests. State forests were created for natural resource protection, as wildlife habitat for plants and animals and for passive recreation. They were not purchased to become race tracks. ATV use creates considerable damage to trails, wetlands,
and plant life.

Please pass this along to anyone you know who cares about this issue.

Thanks -

Patty Pendergast
Connecticut Forest & Park Association
860-346-2372
ppendergast@ctwoodlands.org

* * *

Please do your part...take 5 minutes call and email....the bill is at a critical juncture...it may fail in the next two days..thanks,

Anthony

tyrolean_skier · Post by **tyrolean_skier** » May 25th, '05, 11:01

May I suggest that you post in some other forums as well like
http://forums.alpinezone.com/ and http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/.
This way you may be able to reach more people.

Also www.killingtonaccess.com - although a lot of people who are members there are also members here.

Mister Moose · Post by **Mister Moose** » May 25th, '05, 11:32

This is an issue I can get behind. Sent out emails to Sen Williams and my own Sen. and Rep.

SloeRide · Post by **SloeRide** » May 25th, '05, 11:37

tyrolean_skier wrote:May I suggest that you post in some other forums as well like
http://forums.alpinezone.com/ and http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/.
This way you may be able to reach more people.

Also www.killingtonaccess.com - although a lot of people who are members there are also members here.

Thanks...already hit AZ...didn't know about tetongravity...I'll check it out. Thansk Mister Moose

Dr. NO · Post by **Dr. NO** » May 25th, '05, 15:56

All sounds well and good, but the DEP will not enforce laws on trials. The Parks department is useless against motor vehicles as it is not in their jurisdiction, and DMV refuses to prosecute ATV and Snowmobile infractions. It is unlawful for a minor to be on a motorized vehicle on public land or on streets, yet they are there all the time. Complaints are met with no response, and parents are not held liable.

shortski · Post by **shortski** » May 25th, '05, 17:15

Dr. NO wrote:All sounds well and good, but the DEP will not enforce laws on trials. The Parks department is useless against motor vehicles as it is not in their jurisdiction, and DMV refuses to prosecute ATV and Snowmobile infractions. It is unlawful for a minor to be on a motorized vehicle on public land or on streets, yet they are there all the time. Complaints are met with no response, and parents are not held liable.

Vigilante Justice is called for, kills two birds with one stone, gets the ATV'rs and provides target practice to hunters, sharpening their skills prior to killing Bambi.

Bling Skier · Post by **Bling Skier** » May 25th, '05, 19:23

hey slo...if it was'nt 4 the quad riders i would say that 75% of your tree hugg'in trails would not exist...so take a hike!

kvtskibum · Post by **kvtskibum** » May 25th, '05, 19:46

Patty,
On your subject of ATV legislation. As a avid skier, mountain biker and hiker who has been fighting for and maintaining mountain bike and ORV access for over 25 years, I am apalled at your letter. It has been quite a while since I have seen such a misguided piece written by anyone.
First off montain bikes cause alot of damage to sensitive enviormental areas. One of our biggest stumbling blocks in most areas is assuring the DEC that we could avoid or repair damage. There are plenty of groups that did not want us anywhere as you don't want ORV's in your forrest. I will also be the first to say there are areas ORV's just don't belong.

Lets clear up misconceptions about ATV"s and offroad motorcycles which are lumped together in 5599.
1.) This is the USA. If you own 40 acres of property and the noise isn't bothering the neighbors and you want to ride a ATV in a circle around your yard, so be it. It's your property. There is no need to register your ATV.
2.) NYS collects ATV registration money. It is suposed to go into a pool to obtain legal riding areas. It never gets spent on that.
3.) Walking, mountain biking or riding a ATV on land that you do not have permission to be on is tresspassing. It does not matter if the ATV is registered or not. Impound the vehicle and enforce the existing laws.
4.) You don't pay property tax on a motor vehice you pay sales tax. 95% of motorcyle dealers collect sales tax at the time of the sale. The days of living in one state and buying a dirtbike or ATV out of state or using a out of state address are long gone.
5.) If you look at most of the work parties involving trail maintance you will no doubt see quite a few moto guys. I have never seen these people take a free ride.
6.) There are existing laws out there. Enforce them. 5599 is a very poorly written piece of legislation. That is why the AMA is so ontop of it.

Just remember as you do not want ATV's there are plenty of people who don't want mountain bikers, or horses or hikers even. Colorado has what is perhaps one of the best unwritten land use policy's. It is a simple understanding that there is only so much public land, all the groups will find a way to use, share and maintain it. If that can't be acomplished everyone can stay home. It works suprisingly well.

Yes I care about the issue so I took the time to foward the letter to the American Motorcyclist Association, The Blue Ribbon Coilation and just about every other OHV gorup out there.

Thank you for your time.

mogulmouse · Post by **mogulmouse** » May 25th, '05, 22:46

ya this post thread was a worthless. I cant wait to move up to Sunrise for a while and bring my quads and dirt bike (haha oh yes, 2 stroke). I'ma rip sh*t up!

BigKahuna13 · Post by **BigKahuna13** » May 25th, '05, 23:04

...and to reinforce what kvtskibum said, my son's an avid dirt bike rider. There's exactly 1 place within 100 miles of our home where he can legally ride his dirtbike - a privately owned dirtbike track that costs me $175/yr plus $30 a day for him to use. Within 100 miles of home there are probably a couple hundred miles worth of hiking and mtn biking trails.

And that's not out of the ordinary. There's virtually no place where you can legally ride in Vermont, except private land. And people wonder why kids ride illegally.

mogulmouse · Post by **mogulmouse** » May 26th, '05, 01:35

i got straight busted by the HArrington park PD in bergen county on my yz125 back in like 9th grade. I smoked those f*** but they knew who i was and were waiting on my block. Have to go to (local) trafffic court and they suspended my license a year... but i didnt have one, so they pushed back my permit and my lisence a year... that was POOR. I had a few tickets too.... unlicensed driver, no insurance... cuz i was "in" or on a unregistered vehichle..... mind you i was on the road! Moved to Cal. and got my license in a few months

And thats ANOTHER Story!

PantherHockey04 · Post by **PantherHockey04** » May 26th, '05, 08:59

Hell yahh dude .. I live in western mass and me and about 10 friends who are all in high school go ridding all the time . Well now DEP likes to hide on the trails when they hear us comin . Mostly big Yzf's and CRf's with race pipes . Man you can have some fun with those guys having them chase you home through the woods. I was out ridding yesterday in the big corey around my house about 2000 acres when I got chased out by two trucks and a Cat loader. Its rediculos how much stuff the druggies can get away with but yet the hard working people who arent out killing people get busted. My 2 cents why dont the cops worrie about all the drugs and scum bags of the earth and let the ppl in the woods be .

yeti · Post by **yeti** » May 26th, '05, 10:43

I grew up on dirt bikes - the backyard of my childhood home in the western MD panhandle ended in woods that stretched for miles.... a body could (and sometimes did) get lost in there pretty good.

Back in my day the ATV's were all three wheelers - I had a Honda Big Red 200: man that thing was a blast. (In addition to a Yamaha YZ 125, a Yamaha Enduro 125, and later a Honda CR 250).

When I was growing up every cent I had went into a motorcycle of some sort. Most people I rode with were pretty responsible: no trespassing, respect the hiking trails, stayed out of park land (well most of the time anyway)! But I guess in CT there simply isn't much room with all of that population - most of whom probably sip Perrier, and it sounds like riders are encroaching on areas that should be off limits.

That is a damn shame, but I see why there is a backlash.

Dr. NO · Post by **Dr. NO** » May 26th, '05, 17:06

Attitudes by those who ride rail to trail on motor vehicles is what will stop them. "I can do it 'cause nobody can catch me" and dad says "my kid didn't do nothing wrong"

Well, your bikes and ATV's are digging holes every time you spin a wheel. Every time you cross the trail for that big air or drop down, you cut a path that erodes the trail. People put Big $$$ into these trails, and many people put a lot of time to keep them nice for trail rides, hiking and, unfortunately horse back riding ( I hate accidentally riding over horse sh*t). Hell, in CT, the Coast Guard Acadamy built and had installed several bridges for these trails. Then some snot nose on a ATV or bike ruts out the entry or , in one case, burns the freakin brigde.

Maybe some areas need to be left for the motors, but if caught on a trail, they should take the vehicle and charge the kid and/or the parent.

Mister Moose · Post by **Mister Moose** » May 26th, '05, 20:44

I supported the idea because:

I own land that is used by many for hunting,hiking, biking, snowmobiles, ATV's and dirt bikes. Most keep to the trails and I am happy to let them cross the property. Other bordering parcels also have logging trails and old stagecoach roads so you can go for miles. There have been cases where ATV's have seriously eroded stream banks and torn up soft wetland marshy areas. This is not acceptable. The ruts left last for decades, and plant life is destroyed. The local wetlands commission goes ballistic when they see this.

ATV's and dirt bikes are capable of high speeds, and can have accidents. In today's lawyerized society, I'd like to know that people operating these machines on my property are responsible for their actions. A traceable registration number and an insurance requirement in exchange for access to my land is not unreasonable.

If you don't like the taxation issue, join the democracy and go talk to your legislators. This part of the proposal doesn't matter to me.

Here in Northern CT there is very little Perrier and lots of woods. However, unless you're an enthusiast, ATV's are just noisy and cause trail damage. They seem to drive on favorite areas again and again causing higher degrees of damage, whereas mountain bikers are more transient, going through just once. I can see why many people are against them.