NSR: Corona Virus - You Can Start Panicking Now

[easyrider16]

Any theory out there can be supported by something on the internet. But scientific fact is only established by repeatable experimental results. We should be deferring to the credible experts. Go raise these crackpot theories to actual medical professionals that you know and trust (not some random doctor you found on the internet) and see what they say.

It takes time for experimental results to aggregate, as when Fauci did an about-face regarding masks early on as experimental results came in. The right-wing political meatheads used this to argue that Fauci didn't know what he was talking about, when in point of fact it was the meatheads who did not seem to realize how science works. Personally, I think it's really dumb to listen to a media source with an obviously political bent rather a doctor who's been doing what he's doing for decades and is pretty obviously not a political creature.

[Mister Moose]

scientific fact is only established by repeatable experimental results...

It takes time for experimental results to aggregate, as when Fauci did an about-face regarding masks early on as experimental results came in.

Yes, but why then would someone well versed in how science works state early on without sufficient repeatable results that one type of result is now a fact?

The about face is only necessary when you don't recognize that you haven't done sufficient research to support your assertion, and it turns out to be wrong. Manipulation vs disclosure. That's the issue with Fauci. Once you depart from well established, well challenged, well opposed and consequently well distilled theory, and yet proclaim it as such, it's hard to tell the meatheads apart without a program.

[easyrider16]

My impression was Fauci told everyone early on that we didn't know much about this virus, understanding was rapidly evolving, and policy recommendations would change as understanding evolved. That's pretty much what happened. It seems to me that it was the right-wing media that manipulated the situation into a narrative about Fauci being incompetent or politically motivated. The primary point, though, is don't listen to media - listen to credible medical professionals.

I think it's pretty common, too, if you work in a scientific or technical background. It's not uncommon for people to call someone out as being wrong just because their understanding of a complex thing evolved and led to a change in some sort of design or policy decision. I think it's a symptom of the lack of scientific literacy in our society.

[XtremeJibber2001]

II think it's a symptom of the lack of scientific literacy in our society.

Some might say conspiracy is what happens when people lack understanding of how things work.

[easyrider16]

True, and it doesn't help that scientists and technical people often struggle with communicating with lay people. I think there's definitely room to criticize Fauci in the way he presented information at times. I don't think he had any nefarious intent, however. The demonization of him by the right-wing media is kind of disgusting in my opinion.

[easyrider16]

From the New York Times email this morning:

The large number of unvaccinated residents in Ocean County [New Jersey] has led to a horrific amount of Covid illness and death. Nearly one out of every 200 residents has died from the virus. That is worse than the toll in Mississippi, the U.S. state with the largest amount of Covid death per capita, and worse than in any country except for Peru.

What explains the vaccine skepticism in Ocean County? Politics, above all. The county is heavily Republican. Donald Trump won it by almost 30 percentage points in 2020, and many Republicans — including those who are older than 65 and vulnerable to severe Covid illness — are skeptical of the vaccines.

The article goes on to analyze statistics that seem to demonstrate that the most pro-Trump counties in the country have the highest death tolls per capita from covid. It makes little sense because Trump himself was pro-vaccine. It kind of drives home the point for me that this right-wing anti-vax movement isn't so much about Trump as it is about the crazy right-wing media narratives that are being pushed.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/iverme ... 1647601200

[throbster]

A Johns Hopkins University meta-analysis of several studies in February found that lockdowns during the first COVID-19 wave in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by .2% in the U.S. and Europe.

"While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted," the researchers wrote. "In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."

A study from the National Commission on COVID-19 and Criminal Justice last year found that domestic violence incidents increased 8.1% in the U.S. after lockdown orders were issued.

There have also been additional medical concerns over the impacts of lockdown measures.

The New England Journal of Medicine reviewed the psychological impact of people in quarantine, finding "numerous emotional outcomes, including stress, depression, irritability, insomnia, fear, confusion, anger, frustration, boredom and stigma associated with quarantine, some of which persisted after the quarantine was lifted."

[daytripper]

The pandemic is over, covid is endemic and life needs to go on as it did before covid.

[XtremeJibber2001]

A Johns Hopkins University meta-analysis of several studies in February found that lockdowns during the first COVID-19 wave in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by .2% in the U.S. and Europe.

On it’s face, this study doesn’t pass the smell test. Just look at China compared to US. I’m not pro lockdown, but here’s what I found in 2 minutes:

- Not a published study
- Not a peer reviewed study
- Study was conducted by economists
- Study funded by Cato Institute

[daytripper]

A Johns Hopkins University meta-analysis of several studies in February found that lockdowns during the first COVID-19 wave in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by .2% in the U.S. and Europe.

On it’s face, this study doesn’t pass the smell test. Just look at China compared to US. I’m not pro lockdown, but here’s what I found in 2 minutes:

- Not a published study
- Not a peer reviewed study
- Study was conducted by economists
- Study funded by Cato Institute

Check out China? You really think you can believe any stats that china puts out?

[XtremeJibber2001]

A Johns Hopkins University meta-analysis of several studies in February found that lockdowns during the first COVID-19 wave in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by .2% in the U.S. and Europe.

On it’s face, this study doesn’t pass the smell test. Just look at China compared to US. I’m not pro lockdown, but here’s what I found in 2 minutes:

- Not a published study
- Not a peer reviewed study
- Study was conducted by economists
- Study funded by Cato Institute

Check out China? You really think you can believe any stats that china puts out?

Fair comments. Look at New Zealand, Australia, etc.

[easyrider16]

Doesn't a .2% reduction in mortality mean millions of actual people considering how pervasive the virus was? I mean that's 1 million for every half-billion infections, right?

[throbster]

Y'all still crying that a "Trump judge" shot down the CDC's mask requirement for public transportation?

How do you square Sleepy challenging this ruling while at the same time letting title 42 expire?

[easyrider16]

Y'all still crying that a "Trump judge" shot down the CDC's mask requirement for public transportation?

No, but it is concerning that Trump appointed a 33 year old lawyer to be a judge when she had minimal trial experience and many professionals said she was not qualified. I haven't read her opinion on this particular case but given her lack of qualifications I'm skeptical that her decision will be upheld on appeal.

As to your comparison to title 42, I think you've got an apples and oranges problem. Mask mandates on public transportation are hardly comparable with a policy of expelling immigrants that was arguably totally ineffective anyway.