Lawsuits Against Vail & Alterra Over Covid 19 Closings

[Bubba]

Suits claim there should've been partial refunds for season pass holders.

https://vtskiandride.com/will-these-law ... ski-areas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[E O Eleven]

[Seacoaster]

I'd be surprised if Vail's legal team and resulting legalize(disclosure) states, "so long as there is snow". I am guessing it uses a generic term such as "season". For instance, Stowe has a hard close date under Vail ownership, much to the dismay of many the date came and the resort closed last year with plenty of snow on the mountain.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

Suits claim there should've been partial refunds for season pass holders.

https://vtskiandride.com/will-these-law ... ski-areas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks Bubba. Here is more information:

On April 14 in U.S. District Court in Colorado, Robert Stephen Kramer (on behalf of other plaintiffs) of Villa Park, Calif., filed suit against Alterra Mountain Company, which owns Stratton and Sugarbush in Vermont and operates 13 other ski resorts across North America. The lawsuit alleges:

In mid-March, with months left in the ski season, ski resorts covered by the Ikon pass closed early. Ikon pass holders did not receive the benefits that they paid for. Case 1:20-cv-01057 Document 1 Filed 04/14/20 USDC Colorado Page 1 of 14 2 3. Despite not providing the promised skiing access, Defendants did not offer a refund (or even partial refund) on passes. Instead, Defendants kept all of skiers’ money. With hundreds of thousands of pass holders, this amounts to tens of millions (or more) in unjust profits. 4. Plaintiff brings this case on behalf of himself and the hundreds of thousands of skiers who purchased Ikon ski passes for the 2019-2020 ski season but did not get the full benefits they paid for. Plaintiff seeks fair and reasonable compensation for Ikon pass holders.”

Four days earlier, Brian Hunt of San Ramon, filed a similar suit against Vail Resorts. In the suit, filed in Northern California’s District Court, attorneys for Hunt wrote: “In June of 2019, Mr. Hunt purchased an annual Tahoe Local season pass for $499 which promised mountain access from October 2019 to June 2020, so long as there was snow. On March 25, 2020, Defendant notified passholders that it closed all 34 of its North American resorts. Defendant has retained the full amount of his annual pass fee even though Plaintiff does not have access to any of Defendant’s resorts. Further, Defendant has not refunded Plaintiff any part of his annual pass fee for March 25 through the present, when Defendant’s resorts were closed (and continue to remain closed). Plaintiff signed up for Defendant’s annual pass with the understanding that he would be able to access Defendant’s resorts from October 2019 through June 2020, so long as there was snow on the mountains.”

Both suits are class-action suits and each names respectively, Ikon and Epic Pass holders as plaintiffs. Hunt’s suit also names California pass holders as a subgroup.

...There once was a fella named Hunt........

[madhatter]

also from VTSkiandRide...

https://vtskiandride.com/will-these-law ... -ski-areas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do these suits stand a chance?

Parker Riehle, a lawyer, lobbyist and former president of the Vermont Ski Areas Association doesn’t think so. “Any time you buy a season pass, you go in with the understanding that the ski season could get cut short by any number of factors that are out of the ski resort’s control. Think about a few seasons back when ski areas had to close early because there was no snow. This is not much different from that.”


Parker Riehle, a lawyer and former president of the Vermont Ski Areas Association.
The arrival of Covid-19 is what lawyers term a force majeure – or ‘act of God.’ It is included in many contracts to remove liability for natural and unavoidable catastrophes, events beyond the control of ski resorts.

In addition, state governors ordered the closure of ski areas in Colorado (on March 14) and in Vermont and other states just days later, which would have made it illegal for resorts to continue to operate. There is also the issue of precedent: were these suits to prevail, they could be precedents for lawsuits against gyms, golf courses, and many other organizations that offer pre-paid memberships.

“California is really a litigious-friendly state and the epicenter, it seems, for ski industry lawsuits because of its consumer-protection laws. But I can’t imagine any jury listening to this and agreeing with the plaintiffs. You could even argue even that without a governor’s commandment, there was no alternative but to make the humane choice of saving lives by shutting down those epicenters—especially as the ski towns we’re hearing about out west had the highest concentration of Covid-19 cases.”

only stupid people don't already know this...

[frankieski]

Suits claim there should've been partial refunds for season pass holders.

https://vtskiandride.com/will-these-law ... ski-areas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, here's something they should consider take into consideration if debating whether or not to refund season pass holders...
(It doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum you are on... This entire event has been made into a major "political" event. And as such, every year, there will be a debate whether to shut down the country. It WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. We now live in a place where politics is not contained inside the halls of congress. It is now MORE THEN EVER all around us. Political talk shows used to be limited to Sunday morning Meet the Press. Now, it's encapsulated the entire News Portfolio. So, each and every politician WILL BE debating closing the country when it happens again... and IT WILL.)

As such, IF REFUNDS ARE NOT GIVEN TO ALL SEASON PASS HOLDERS, that at least represent the equation... (valuation of the refund = average ski days available for the last 10 years - days skied this year)… then their season pass penetration WILL decline significantly. Not one skier will trust the value of their season pass.

[madhatter]

Suits claim there should've been partial refunds for season pass holders.

https://vtskiandride.com/will-these-law ... ski-areas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, here's something they should consider take into consideration if debating whether or not to refund season pass holders...
(It doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum you are on... This entire event has been made into a major "political" event. And as such, every year, there will be a debate whether to shut down the country. It WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. We now live in a place where politics is not contained inside the halls of congress. It is now MORE THEN EVER all around us. Political talk shows used to be limited to Sunday morning Meet the Press. Now, it's encapsulated the entire News Portfolio. So, each and every politician WILL BE debating closing the country when it happens again... and IT WILL.)

As such, IF REFUNDS ARE NOT GIVEN TO ALL SEASON PASS HOLDERS, that at least represent the equation... (valuation of the refund = average ski days available for the last 10 years - days skied this year)… then their season pass penetration WILL decline significantly. Not one skier will trust the value of their season pass.

yer not exactly wrong there...but I dunno about the "not one skier" part...

lots of skiers buy a pass and ski fewer than 20 days on it...many skiers ski from xmas til the presidents week and were done anyway...the number of ski days I got in was well below what I normally would but my cost per day was such that I really can't complain....( and they haven't charged us for the last two months)...places like pico were scheduled to close at the beginning of april anyway...some hills close even earlier than that...

now the part about the debate on lockdowns every year is certainly something to consider...it remains to be seen where that goes...

I'd expect passes to address these types of situations going forward and I'd also expect many places to voluntarily offer up some kind of compensation or token of goodwill at a minimum...

lawsuits over the current situation are ridiculous and as noted above very unlikely to succeed...

IF by some chance these "lockdowns" become the norm ( god help us), the structure of a "season pass" will have to change to reflect that, or risk loss of credibility as described above...

[boston_e]

I think hatter is correct... i'm not sure about the "not one skier"... for many of us who generally ski most / all / many weekends, we probably feel as if we got the value out of our season pass regardless of the early closing... but there are going to be some (maybe even many) who feel they did not.

I think their bigger danger of lost customers are those who justify the cost of their IKON pass by doing a couple of odd weekend days plus one significant western trip. Schools in many states outside of New England have one March vacation (instead of the week at Presidents and an week in April). I imagine many of those had their one big trip out west (where they would get 6 or 7 days in a row thus justifying their pass) canceled. I'm sure they feel as if IKON has not done enough to help compensate for that, and may very well be leery of purchasing a pass for next season.

[skiadikt]

Suits claim there should've been partial refunds for season pass holders.

https://vtskiandride.com/will-these-law ... ski-areas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, here's something they should consider take into consideration if debating whether or not to refund season pass holders...
(It doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum you are on... This entire event has been made into a major "political" event. And as such, every year, there will be a debate whether to shut down the country. It WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. We now live in a place where politics is not contained inside the halls of congress. It is now MORE THEN EVER all around us. Political talk shows used to be limited to Sunday morning Meet the Press. Now, it's encapsulated the entire News Portfolio. So, each and every politician WILL BE debating closing the country when it happens again... and IT WILL.)

As such, IF REFUNDS ARE NOT GIVEN TO ALL SEASON PASS HOLDERS, that at least represent the equation... (valuation of the refund = average ski days available for the last 10 years - days skied this year)… then their season pass penetration WILL decline significantly. Not one skier will trust the value of their season pass.

yer not exactly wrong there...but I dunno about the "not one skier" part...

lots of skiers buy a pass and ski fewer than 20 days on it...many skiers ski from xmas til the presidents week and were done anyway...the number of ski days I got in was well below what I normally would but my cost per day was such that I really can't complain....( and they haven't charged us for the last two months)...places like pico were scheduled to close at the beginning of april anyway...some hills close even earlier than that...

now the part about the debate on lockdowns every year is certainly something to consider...it remains to be seen where that goes...

I'd expect passes to address these types of situations going forward and I'd also expect many places to voluntarily offer up some kind of compensation or token of goodwill at a minimum...

lawsuits over the current situation are ridiculous and as noted above very unlikely to succeed...

IF by some chance these "lockdowns" become the norm ( god help us), the structure of a "season pass" will have to change to reflect that, or risk loss of credibility as described above...

the mtn "owes" nothing. if not done, most folks were wrapping it up in another couple weeks anyway and only the hardcore who had long amortized their passes would be left. sh*t happens ...

instead of $4.70/day, it cost me maybe $6.80/day. as hatter mentioned, beast 365 passholders have lucked out since we haven't been charged since the closing. based on that, i'd expect some sweetening of the pot for returning regular season pass holders with some sort of insurance/guarantee factored in so folks can have confidence when purchasing their pass.

[biged]

I propose we just open up uphill travel at your own risk and we call it even.

[Guy in Shorts]

After buying the Spring pass the last couple of years my wife convinced one of her brothers to buy a full pass this year. He got in 10 days before the shutdown. In his case skiing for over $100 per day was not a deal.

[Dr. NO]

I thought Vail, Aspen and others closed mid April due to Forest restrictions. Can't be chasing bears down the hill when they are just awakening and HUNGRY. A-Basin is typically the last area standing and Mammoth in CALI .

[frankieski]

I think hatter is correct... i'm not sure about the "not one skier"...

I agree... I was being a little excessive. You both are correct. A good portion of pass holders will se exceptional value with the skiing that they have already had this season. And, a portion will not. And, yes... for the future, verbiage in the contract for future pass sales should include some sort of "non-weather related" shut downs. Whether a larger discount towards a following year pass, or monetary refund... there needs to be something that protects the integrity of the package.

[brownman]

Ikon Adventure Assurance makes an attempt at that .. Pay now .. maybe ski in '20-'21 season
Asking consumers to up front finance the operations of a Megapass entity .. good luck enticing folks.
Though it does provide potential relief for those who have already committed..

[boston_e]

Ikon Adventure Assurance makes an attempt at that .. Pay now .. maybe ski in '20-'21 season
Asking consumers to up front finance the operations of a Megapass entity .. good luck enticing folks.
Though it does provide potential relief for those who have already committed..

The adventure assurance does make an attempt, but even so the decision has to be made so early in comparison to the scope of the season... particularly for the IKON pass holders who justify the cost of their passes by planning to ski a couple of odd weekends plus one longer spring break trip... IF next season gets disrupted, things might get shut down sporadically at various points. If a shut down coincides with someones trip, they are still totally screwed.

Those are the customers the IKON has to worry about losing.