Kyle Rittenhouse shooting (Kenosha WI)

[deadheadskier]

Ahhhh.....typical Moose. Well written, some facts and then a whole lotta spin and projection to back up his ideology.

Defaming him because of his weight, age, open carrying, or other inconsequential prejudical parameters is just.... just.... just so DHS.

Are laws inconsequential prejudice parameters? Again, against the law for a 17 year old to open carry. Should have been carded by the police and had his firearm confiscated and been arrested. Breaking curfew against the law. Should have been asked to leave just like the protesters, not thrown water bottles and told how much he is appreciated.

DHS, you need to reconsider the rights of property owners to defend their property (and in other cases their homes).

Projection

Never have I have ever argued against the rights of homeowners to protect their private property with arms. If you don't feel that your own preparations with the support of law enforcement is enough, then hire a professional security firm to assist.

But having a bunch of wannabe GI Joes show up and patrol the streets with long riffles, threatening to shoot others over vandalism? Hard pass. Sounds like Fallujah to me, but plenty of Y'all Qaeda types want that.

If the local PD isn't enough to manage Civic unrest, call in the county police, then state and then National Guard. Having the local chapter of Patriot Prayer or Proud Boys patrolling? No freaking way. Heaven forbid my town ever has a rioting problem, I don't want private citizens from out of town showing up and shooting looters.

Also, for the Barney Fife one bullet or limited size magazine proponents, Rittenhouse had to defend himself 3 times in a short time span. Leaving aside what the evidence shows in court on how justified the shooting was, this shows how in the real world limiting ammunition to a 1 digit number is not an educated position.

In these arguments I've seen those against magazine capacity limits state that limiting capacity doesn't matter as a skilled owner can swap magazines in two seconds. Now it does?

Which is it?

As you appear to making the claim that you are more educated than most on this subject, what should the law be?

[deadheadskier]

So, it turns out young "we don't have non-lethal" Kyle isn't the angelic young aspiring police officer that conservatives make him out to be.

Apparently has a number of screws loose and was a menace around his high school before he dropped out.

https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/ ... smates-say


“He went to middle school with my little sister and she said that everyone always thought of him to be a possible future shooter,” said Joe, “and so did I when I met him in high school.”

Also liked to try and beat up girls

https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/iixaux

But I'm sure his goals traveling to Kenosha were just to offer first aid and protect property. He likely did absolutely nothing to instigate the confrontations he found himself in right?

[Mister Moose]

So, it turns out young "we don't have non-lethal" Kyle isn't the angelic young aspiring police officer that conservatives make him out to be.

Apparently has a number of screws loose and was a menace around his high school before he dropped out.

https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/ ... smates-say


“He went to middle school with my little sister and she said that everyone always thought of him to be a possible future shooter,” said Joe, “and so did I when I met him in high school.”

Also liked to try and beat up girls

https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/iixaux

But I'm sure his goals traveling to Kenosha were just to offer first aid and protect property. He likely did absolutely nothing to instigate the confrontations he found himself in right?

That might have relevance in court should motivation be a factor in a crime he hasn't yet been charged with or convicted with, but it plays zero in what we've discussed so far on right to bear arms or defend property. Even you, having just assassinated his character, still have the right to defend yourself and your property. One does not negate the other. In the absence of those facts you are assassinating character to buttress an argument. Not a good look.

[Mister Moose]

Defaming him because of his weight, age, open carrying, or other inconsequential prejudical parameters is just.... just.... just so DHS.

Are laws inconsequential prejudice parameters? Again, against the law for a 17 year old to open carry. Should have been carded by the police and had his firearm confiscated and been arrested. Breaking curfew against the law. Should have been asked to leave just like the protesters, not thrown water bottles and told how much he is appreciated.

DHS, you need to reconsider the rights of property owners to defend their property (and in other cases their homes).

Projection

Never have I have ever argued against the rights of homeowners to protect their private property with arms. If you don't feel that your own preparations with the support of law enforcement is enough, then hire a professional security firm to assist.

But having a bunch of wannabe GI Joes show up and patrol the streets with long riffles, threatening to shoot others over vandalism? Hard pass. Sounds like Fallujah to me, but plenty of Y'all Qaeda types want that.

If the local PD wasn't there isn't enough to manage Civic unrest, call in the county police, wasn't there then state wasn't there and then National Guard wasn't there. Having the local chapter of Patriot Prayer or Proud Boys patrolling? No freaking way. Heaven forbid my town ever has a rioting problem, I don't want private citizens from out of town showing up and shooting looters.

Also, for the Barney Fife one bullet or limited size magazine proponents, Rittenhouse had to defend himself 3 times in a short time span. Leaving aside what the evidence shows in court on how justified the shooting was, this shows how in the real world limiting ammunition to a 1 digit number is not an educated position.

In these arguments I've seen those against magazine capacity limits state that limiting capacity doesn't matter as a skilled owner can swap magazines in two seconds. Now it does?

Which is it?

As you appear to making the claim that you are more educated than most on this subject, what should the law be?

How are you certain it was illegal for a 17 year old to be in possession of a long gun in either IL or WI? HS's previous post disputes that. (Purchase laws are different than possession laws)

You are very quick to grant the right for ordinary folks to hire private security. That option may not exist, either in dollars or manpower. The right to bear arms rests in the people, not the professional subcontractor.

I agree, it would be better if the police were there. They weren't there. That's the real world fact you need to get through your DHS head. What do you do when the police aren't there?

And you're going to prohibit neighbors from the surrounding area from coming to help? And assault their character when they do?

I'm going to wait for all the facts to come out rather than leap to judgment on 1) character of the shooter 2) the full chronology of the events 3) whether the shooting was justified.

I don't need to wait for those facts to know that you have the right to defend life and property, and that others may help you do so. Of any character or address.

On the magazine thing, you sure you don't want to think that one over again?

[deadheadskier]

Moose,

Just pointing out that people like HWS are celebrating the fact that the victims were all bad guys and calling Kyle a hero for shooting them.

Turns out young Kyle isn't exactly the little angel, aspiring police officer the Tucker Carlson's of the world portray him to be.

We are not going to see eye to eye on militias patrolling public streets during curfews and places of civic unrest. They should have been asked to leave just like the protesters. Even application of the law.

"Under Wisconsin statutes that say anyone under 18 who "goes armed" with any deadly weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor, Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, was not old enough to legally carry the assault-style rifle he had."

Exceptions are made for hunting

[Highway Star]

- It's always "oh yeah I knew that guy was going to be a mass shooter." Hindsight is 20/20.

- Teenagers get into fights? Yes, very common. Girls get punched in fights? Welcome to 3rd wave Feminism.

(the above statement should not be taken as advocating violence against women or excusing any behavior by any person in the fight video, it is merely a statement of fact)

[deadheadskier]

- It's always "oh yeah I knew that guy was going to be a mass shooter." Hindsight is 20/20.

- Teenagers get into fights? Yes, very common. Girls get punched in fights? Welcome to 3rd wave Feminism.

(the above statement should not be taken as advocating violence against women or excusing any behavior by any person in the fight video, it is merely a statement of fact)

Highwaystar, "That kid sucker punching and brawling with girls is just kids being immature kids."

Also Highwaystar, "I want kids from out of town patrolling my streets with AR-15 rifles.'

What could possibly go wrong?

[Highway Star]

- It's always "oh yeah I knew that guy was going to be a mass shooter." Hindsight is 20/20.

- Teenagers get into fights? Yes, very common. Girls get punched in fights? Welcome to 3rd wave Feminism.

(the above statement should not be taken as advocating violence against women or excusing any behavior by any person in the fight video, it is merely a statement of fact)

Highwaystar, "That kid sucker punching and brawling with girls is just kids being immature kids."

Also Highwaystar, "I want kids from out of town patrolling my streets with AR-15 rifles.'

What could possibly go wrong?

Sigh.

I've said many times that all young people are stupid. I stand by that statement.

I've also never advocated for youth militia, nor have I endorsed any actions by Kyle that could be construed as militia activities. Put down the crack pipe.

Please note the specificity of this statement:

I support the rights of self defense for citizens of any age. Kyle had every right to be on those streets as someone peacefully protesting the looting going on in the area and offering to render medical aide as needed. He had EMT training (lifeguard), police program training and advanced firearm training. Probably better trained than 99% of civilians.

[asher2789]

anybody who defends this nutjob is outing themselves as one of trumps brownshirts. sickening.

[Highway Star]

Really jogs the noggin....

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/ana ... use-op-ed/

But of course, anyone who had watched a bunch of riot live streams could tell you that most of the people out doing the rioting had a criminal past.

[Highway Star]

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/The ... #i87473383

I apologize in advance if someone already noted this, but I didn't read through all of the pages following the very good analysis of the shooting. There has been speculation about Rittenhouse's shooting of Grosskreutz' right bicep, why he didn't shoot him center mass or shoot again, etc. As an instructor, taking students through a shoot house where there are shoot and no shoot targets and the student has to first identify if the target has a weapon or not, there is a high propensity to shoot at the gun, not center mass. The reason is pretty obvious. First, the student is looking for a weapon, so focus is on the hand. In many/most cases, when a weapon is pointed at you, especially a handgun, the arm is crooked or if straight, the bicep is in line with the gun and immediately above it or near proximity. It takes a lot of practice for a shooter to shift their focus and point of aim to center mass before they begin shooting. The instinctive response to identifying a weapon is to start shooting immediately. There are lots of debates about whether it is better to delay the shot long enough to put it center mass, or if lead on target, anywhere right then is better. There are good arguments for both, but I lean toward the latter. You may not put the target down for the count, but if your immediate goal is survival, disabling them seems like a good result to me.

Getting back to this and my observations on the range. The instinctive shooting after identifying a weapon results in a high percentage of the shots hitting the gun, the hand and the arm or target around the weapon. In no case was there a desire to hit the gun or to disarm the opponent. In every case after asking the student why THEY thought they hit the gun/hand/arm, it was as stated before. They were looking at hands to identify the target as a threat due to the presence of a weapon and as soon as they did that, they started shooting. I think it is entirely probable, that Rittenhouse did the same. He saw the gun in Grosskreutz' hand and fired immediately, one shot, which hit him in the bicep of his gun hand. We won't know if that is the truth however unless Rittenhouse articulates that in testimony or a statement.

[easyrider16]

I agree, it would be better if the police were there. They weren't there. That's the real world fact you need to get through your DHS head. What do you do when the police aren't there?

And you're going to prohibit neighbors from the surrounding area from coming to help? And assault their character when they do?

This sounds a lot like vigilantism. In fact this whole incident seems to have been precipitated by a group of vigilantes who decided it was their duty to defend a neighborhood they don't even live in.

I think anyone with an ounce of common sense can see how bad an idea it would be to have a bunch of teenagers running around with assault rifles during a BLM protest. A person has a right to self defense. That right gets a lot more murky when the person goes out looking for trouble when armed and loaded for bear.

[Highway Star]

I agree, it would be better if the police were there. They weren't there. That's the real world fact you need to get through your DHS head. What do you do when the police aren't there?

And you're going to prohibit neighbors from the surrounding area from coming to help? And assault their character when they do?

This sounds a lot like vigilantism. In fact this whole incident seems to have been precipitated by a group of vigilantes who decided it was their duty to defend a neighborhood they don't even live in.

I think anyone with an ounce of common sense can see how bad an idea it would be to have a bunch of teenagers running around with assault rifles during a BLM protest. A person has a right to self defense. That right gets a lot more murky when the person goes out looking for trouble when armed and loaded for bear.

You're right, I'm sure the Democrats would rather just have full on child soldiers like they do in Africa.

https://www.hrw.org/topic/childrens-rig ... d-soldiers

MAKE AMERICA AFRICA (MAA)

[deadheadskier]

.

[Highway Star]

Has Trever Noah hit puberty yet?