How does this end

[asher2789]

How does the Trump presidency end?

[skidogg]

not with a bank, but with a wimpper

[easyrider16]

Would love to see it be in handcuffs, but the most likely outcome is he stays until Biden takes office and then leaves peacefully. He won't need to be taken by force because he is ultimately a coward and would never actually physically resist. If he could get someone to fight the battle for him, he'd probably try to stage a military coup, but nobody will support him because he's such a poor leader.

[Bubba]

From the NY Times morning e-mail political opinion

By David Leonhardt

The biggest question isn’t impeachment. It’s disqualification from future office.

‘Honor, Trust or Profit’

If the House impeaches President Trump this week, it will still have almost no effect on how long he remains in office. His term expires nine days from now, and even the most rapid conceivable Senate trial would cover much of that time.

But the impeachment debate is still highly consequential. The Senate has the power both to remove Trump from office and to prevent him from holding office in the future. That second power will not expire when his term ends, many constitutional scholars say. A Senate trial can happen after Jan. 20.

And disqualifying Trump from holding office again could alter the future of American politics.

It’s worth pausing for a moment to reflect on how radical a figure Trump is. He rejects basic foundations of American government that other presidents, from both parties, have accepted for decades.

He has tried to reverse an election result and remain in power by persuading local officials to commit fraud. He incited a mob that attacked the Capitol — and killed a police officer — while Congress was meeting to certify the result. Afterward, Trump praised the rioters.

This behavior was consistent with Trump’s entire presidency. He has previously rejected the legitimacy of election results and encouraged his supporters to commit violence. He has tried to undermine Americans’ confidence in the F.B.I., the C.I.A., the military, Justice Department prosecutors, federal judges, the Congressional Budget Office, government scientists, government health officials and more. He has openly used the presidency to enrich his family.

In the simplest terms, Trump seems to believe a president should be able to do whatever he wants. He does not appear to believe in the system of the government that the Constitution prescribes — a democratic republic.

Yet there is a significant chance he could win the presidency again, in 2024. He remains popular with many Republican voters, and the Electoral College currently gives a big advantage to Republicans. If he is not disqualified from future office, Trump could dominate the Republican Party and shape American politics for the next four years.

If he is disqualified, it’s impossible to know what would happen, but this much is clear: A singularly popular figure who rejects the basic tenets of American democracy would no longer be eligible to lead it.

What are the basics of disqualification?

• Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution says: “Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.”

• The Constitution does not specify whether disqualification requires a two-thirds Senate vote, as conviction in an impeachment trial does, or only a majority vote. The Senate has previously used a majority vote.

• The Senate has barred three people, all federal judges, from holding future office: West Humphreys (in 1862, for waging war against the U.S.), Robert Archbald (in 1913, for corruption) and Thomas Porteous (in 2010, for bribery and perjury).

• The Senate has tried a former War Department secretary — William Belknap, in 1876 — after he resigned. Both the House and the Senate decided that Belknap could be tried after he had left office.

• Disqualifying a president from future office, because of the stakes and lack of precedent, would probably come before the Supreme Court. History suggests that the court would be more likely to uphold a bipartisan congressional vote than a largely partisan one.

• For more: “If an impeachment begins when an individual is in office, the process may surely continue after they resign or otherwise depart,” Michael Gerhardt of the University of North Carolina School of Law writes in the online publication Just Security.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Some Democrats are saying they want to postpone the Senate trial to after the first 100 days. Not sure I agree with this approach. I think it should be first order to get this done.

[easyrider16]

I can see their point as we are in a bit of an emergency here with this pandemic. Impeachment may very well be a waste of time because the Democrats don't have the votes to convict.

I'm wondering if it would be best just to hand this off to the Attorney General's office and let them investigate. Maybe even appoint a special counsel to investigate it and make recommendations to Congress for articles of impeachment and to the AG for prosecution of criminal activity.

[brownman]

This will end with Drumph continuing to cheat at golf and using his grift money to bribe a license out of the FCC for Trump Network television.
He will not be elected to any office other than as Mgr of license plate manufacturing at Rikers or Attica or Leavenworth or Alcatraz.

It's gonna end well.
Darkest before Dawn.

Biden absolutely needs to focus on vaccination fulfillment ..

[Bubba]

Adam Schiff has finally been vindicated. But it brings him no pleasure
Robin Abcarian - LA Times

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgntp

“He has betrayed our national security, and he will do so again,” said Schiff, beseeching Republicans to convict and remove Trump from office. “He has compromised our elections and he will do so again. You will not change him. You cannot constrain him. He is who he is. Truth matters little to him. What’s right matters even less, and decency not at all.”

[asher2789]

Would love to see it be in handcuffs, but the most likely outcome is he stays until Biden takes office and then leaves peacefully. He won't need to be taken by force because he is ultimately a coward and would never actually physically resist. If he could get someone to fight the battle for him, he'd probably try to stage a military coup, but nobody will support him because he's such a poor leader.

i think everyone who says a coup won't happen isn't thinking straight - it's not the military we have to be worried about, it's the self appointed and illegal in all 50 states "militias". and trump's sympathizers in the police and military aiding and abetting said "militias".

if they show up in force like they say they will i predict it will spark a civil war and absolute chaos. there's already evidence of the terrorists having insider knowledge in knowing where to locate the lawmakers they were trying to harm. not to mention the two bombs left in the RNC and DNC headquarters. the incredibly lax security despite weeks of public planning... the paltry amount of arrests and lack of severity in charges (most arrested on trespassing or curfew breaking related charges rather than terrorism)...

count me in the civil war camp. not because i want it, but because we haven't finished the first one.

[easyrider16]

Nah those bozos who fancy themselves "militia" would acquit themselves about as well as the clowns who tried to storm the Capitol. It might take a minute to mobilize the Guard, but once that happens the gun nuts would be wiped out in short order.

Don't get me wrong, it would be awful and people would die, but it would fail spectacularly. Not likely to happen at this point, though. Not this election cycle, anyway. If Republicans keep losing, the rednecks might get frustrated and things could come to a head, but that probably wouldn't be until 2024.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[asher2789]

Nah those bozos who fancy themselves "militia" would acquit themselves about as well as the clowns who tried to storm the Capitol. It might take a minute to mobilize the Guard, but once that happens the gun nuts would be wiped out in short order.

Don't get me wrong, it would be awful and people would die, but it would fail spectacularly. Not likely to happen at this point, though. Not this election cycle, anyway. If Republicans keep losing, the rednecks might get frustrated and things could come to a head, but that probably wouldn't be until 2024.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

either way, if they "win" or "lose", violence "against" them makes them "martyrs" to the cause, attracting more idiots to the fight. mcconnell was right - we're facing a democracy death spiral.

[XtremeJibber2001]

The US military pouring down into the Capitol Mall defending what they see as an attack on their country ... those on the other side will be squashed swiftly.

Also, these folks aren’t just rednecks. You have ex military (some as high as Lt Col) and businessmen that stormed the Capitol. They come in all colors and from all backgrounds.

I also think protesting does not in and of itself make you culpable. In the same way a Democrat isn’t culpable for BLM riots. Only those that carry out violence or enable violence are culpable $02

[easyrider16]

Isn't this a little different ? Anyone who went to that rally to support Trump signed on to the insane notion that the election was somehow illegitimate because their guy lost. It might not be criminal culpability, but there seems to be some level of responsibility there for this debacle.

Frankly I think anyone who still buys into the notion that this election was illegitimate is to some degree culpable. I think we've been saying on here for months that Trump's refusal to concede could lead to violence. Well, here we are.

[asher2789]

The US military pouring down into the Capitol Mall defending what they see as an attack on their country ... those on the other side will be squashed swiftly.

Also, these folks aren’t just rednecks. You have ex military (some as high as Lt Col) and businessmen that stormed the Capitol. They come in all colors and from all backgrounds.

I also think protesting does not in and of itself make you culpable. In the same way a Democrat isn’t culpable for BLM riots. Only those that carry out violence or enable violence are culpable $02

yes, that's the problem. they're not incompetent bumbling fools like their dear leader. its actually a miracle that (with the exception of one crazy and one cop) that this wasn't a bloodbath.

don't make the false equivalence of protesting against being killed with protesting for being a sore loser. they are not the same. not even a little. sure, showing up to this ridiculous rally and waving a sign around makes one look like an idiot exercising their free speech rights. not a problem. but most came with the desire to "stop the steal" by any means necessary. they're terrorists.

[asher2789]

Isn't this a little different ? Anyone who went to that rally to support Trump signed on to the insane notion that the election was somehow illegitimate because their guy lost. It might not be criminal culpability, but there seems to be some level of responsibility there for this debacle.

Frankly I think anyone who still buys into the notion that this election was illegitimate is to some degree culpable. I think we've been saying on here for months that Trump's refusal to concede could lead to violence. Well, here we are.

people have their right to free speech no matter how insane the speech is (so long as not direct threats). so just showing up to the protest... whatever. you look like an idiot and most of the country is pointing and laughing at you for thinking the election was stolen despite 60 thrown out lawsuits for a lack of evidence. but the second they interfered with government business of transitioning power as decided by the electorate, they became terrorists.

it is WAY different than BLM protests. BLM protests were protesting against being murdered by the police state. this "stop the steal" sh*t is standard sore loser reaction upgraded with good old fashioned fascism.