Impeachment?

[asher2789]

You do realize that Biden has no power to either send checks on his own or order Congress to do anything so blaming Biden is silly. You also realize that the legislation to do these things takes time to write (they just finished a few days ago) and that Congress has its own legislative procedures it must follow, not to mention the constitutional requirement that money bills start in the House. And you must realize that the Senate is 50/50 and one Democratic Senator is against at least a portion of the bill as currently proposed. And, finally, you realize that nobody is going to get a $2,000 anyway; it’s $1,400. Just sayin...

Stay angry my friend.

Trump got whatever the hell trump wanted when he had both the house and senate. im tired of the excuses. i understand excuse making with a divided government, but it's time to crack the whip. the democrats need a mcconnell of their own, too many spineless wimps running the show.

Ruling probably takes minimum wage hike out of Covid relief bill.

https://apple.news/AYMI03dB4TjirI-OEa5E6fQ

using budget reconciliation to pass a minimum wage raise was bernie's idea. i love bernie, but it sounded like a bad plan from the start. what bernie should of done was create a bill raising the minimum wage, and then have manchin and probably all of the republicans on record saying theyre against americans having the right to make more than $7.25 an hour.

also, $15 minimum wage is a joke. if it kept up with productivity / inflation / cost of living it since the 1970s it would be around ~$25 an hour now. why is it not? where do you think the 1% gets their $ from? EXPLOITING LEGALIZED WAGE THEFT! and us taxpayers foot the bill. walmart et al can pay starvation wages, because there's always food stamps and section 8 housing to keep their employees surviving on the bare minimum. funny how the "pro life" and "anti tax" crowd are also pro slave wage labor whining about how $15 an hour burger flippers are costing them an extra 20 cents for their big mac...

anyways, still pinning this on the democrats. can't wait for them to lose the house and the senate in 2022 and trump to be president again in 2024 - that appears to be their goal, or at least, the goal of their funders. buy both sides, and you always win! contrary to popular belief, i am anti-fascist, not a democrat, and both parties promote fascism. but the democrats have *diverse* fascism!

I think you better provide your definition of fascism before continuing this conversation.

fascism is a lot more than just hitler and the nazi take on it. the mistake everyone makes when talking about politics in current time is using words defined a century ago under completely different conditions (that applies to all the -isms) and expecting it to apply exactly to today. even if america was run by bernie and was "socialist" it still would not resemble the USSR, for example. we live in a version of fascism currently - best described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism

The book Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt (2012) by Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco portrays inverted totalitarianism as a system where corporations have corrupted and subverted democracy and where economics bests politics. Every natural resource and living being is commodified and exploited by large corporations to the point of collapse as excess consumerism and sensationalism lull and manipulate the citizenry into surrendering their liberties and their participation in government.

seriously, everyone should read through that wikipedia link and think really carefully about what its saying... and then try to tell me with a straight face that it's not exactly what is going on, regardless of if youre on team red or team blue... also, if any of this is ringing true to you, you should check out adam curtis' documentary film work.

also, this is a great definition of how i see fascism: https://truthout.org/articles/no-actual ... ooks-like/

The 1983 American Heritage Dictionary defined fascism as: “A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.”Fascism originated in Italy, and Mussolini claims to have invented the word itself. It was actually his ghostwriter, Giovanni Gentile, who invented it and defined it in the Encyclopedia Italiana in this way: “Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.”

In other words, fascism is corporate government – a Libertarian’s wet dream. It’s a government in which the Atlas’s of industry are given free rein to control the economy, just how they’re regulated, how much they pay in taxes, how much they pay their workers.

***

As we know, fascism was eventually defeated in World War 2. But just before the end of the war, with the fascists on the ropes, the Vice President of the United States at the time, Henry Wallace, penned an op-ed for the New York Times warning Americans about the creeping dangers of fascism – or corporate government.

He defined a fascist as, “those who, paying lip service to democracy and the common welfare, in their insatiable greed for money and the power which money gives, do not hesitate surreptitiously to evade the laws designed to safeguard the public from monopolistic extortion.”

i bolded the dictatorship of the extreme right because there is no left wing party in this country. there is the center right - the democrats, with a few stragglers trying to make change from the inside and getting nowhere - and the extreme right, which is the republicans. anyone who wants to claim otherwise, re the democrats, is hopelessly brainwashed and clueless.

[G-smashed]

I guess they don't require IQ tests to post in this forum!

[ANGUS]

he has both a house and senate majority. im tired of democrats and their excuses when they have the power to actually do something.

You do realize that Biden has no power to either send checks on his own or order Congress to do anything so blaming Biden is silly. You also realize that the legislation to do these things takes time to write (they just finished a few days ago) and that Congress has its own legislative procedures it must follow, not to mention the constitutional requirement that money bills start in the House. And you must realize that the Senate is 50/50 and one Democratic Senator is against at least a portion of the bill as currently proposed. And, finally, you realize that nobody is going to get a $2,000 anyway; it’s $1,400. Just sayin...

Stay angry my friend.

Trump got whatever the hell trump wanted when he had both the house and senate. im tired of the excuses. i understand excuse making with a divided government, but it's time to crack the whip. the democrats need a mcconnell of their own, too many spineless wimps running the show.

Ruling probably takes minimum wage hike out of Covid relief bill.

https://apple.news/AYMI03dB4TjirI-OEa5E6fQ

using budget reconciliation to pass a minimum wage raise was bernie's idea. i love bernie, but it sounded like a bad plan from the start. what bernie should of done was create a bill raising the minimum wage, and then have manchin and probably all of the republicans on record saying theyre against americans having the right to make more than $7.25 an hour.

also, $15 minimum wage is a joke. if it kept up with productivity / inflation / cost of living it since the 1970s it would be around ~$25 an hour now. why is it not? where do you think the 1% gets their $ from? EXPLOITING LEGALIZED WAGE THEFT! and us taxpayers foot the bill. walmart et al can pay starvation wages, because there's always food stamps and section 8 housing to keep their employees surviving on the bare minimum. funny how the "pro life" and "anti tax" crowd are also pro slave wage labor whining about how $15 an hour burger flippers are costing them an extra 20 cents for their big mac...

anyways, still pinning this on the democrats. can't wait for them to lose the house and the senate in 2022 and trump to be president again in 2024 - that appears to be their goal, or at least, the goal of their funders. buy both sides, and you always win! contrary to popular belief, i am anti-fascist, not a democrat, and both parties promote fascism. but the democrats have *diverse* fascism!

asher,
Please chill out. Take a breath. Get with reality. There will be no 15 dollar an hour minimum wage jobs. As an individual you have the power to better your own life. Go to school. Or not. Start a company. Get a good CPA. You can obviously afford to ski in K town. It's not like you are in a soup line. Stop the hate.

[easyrider16]

Why wouldn't there be $15 an hour minimum wage jobs? Seems like there would be plenty of them if congress increased the minimum wage.

Minimum wage should be automatically increased with inflation. According to the google machine, if minimum wage had kept pace with inflation from when it was first passed in 1968, it would be $24 an hour right now. Arguably, $15 an hour is way too low.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[ANGUS]

Why wouldn't there be $15 an hour minimum wage jobs? Seems like there would be plenty of them if congress increased the minimum wage.

Minimum wage should be automatically increased with inflation. According to the google machine, if minimum wage had kept pace with inflation from when it was first passed in 1968, it would be $24 an hour right now. Arguably, $15 an hour is way too low.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Ok. So at $24 per hour it will cost an employer $48 per hour. Is that reasonable for unskilled labor? Add profit to that. For example. You have your vacation home checked once per week. That's a minimum 1 hour charge. You would be willing to spend $100 per week to have your house looked in on?

[daytripper]

I think minimum wage should be determined by the states. Cost of living in NYC is a hell of a lot higher than it is in east f*** Montana. Why should they both have the same minimum wage? Even in NYC, when the rate went to 15$ a few years ago, 2 people lost their jobs where I was working because they couldn't afford to pay everyone $15 an hour. Regardless, it definitely should not be part of a covid relief bill.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Why wouldn't there be $15 an hour minimum wage jobs? Seems like there would be plenty of them if congress increased the minimum wage.

Minimum wage should be automatically increased with inflation. According to the google machine, if minimum wage had kept pace with inflation from when it was first passed in 1968, it would be $24 an hour right now. Arguably, $15 an hour is way too low.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Alternative is to scrap minimum wage / social programs and follow the minimum basic income model (e.g., following Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, etc.).

[easyrider16]

Ok. So at $24 per hour it will cost an employer $48 per hour. Is that reasonable for unskilled labor? Add profit to that. For example. You have your vacation home checked once per week. That's a minimum 1 hour charge. You would be willing to spend $100 per week to have your house looked in on?

$48 per hour? How do you come up with that figure? Payroll tax is 7.65%. That means the employer only pays $25.84 per hour. Even if you provide benefits and include overhead, you're not hitting anywhere near $48 an hour. Reasonable overhead is 25%, and reasonable profit is 15%. That puts the hourly wage at $33.60, no where near $100.

If you as a business owner can't figure out how to run your business while paying a livable wage, you should go out of business. According to the BLS, average hourly wages in the U.S. for most workers are between $17-28 per hour, so most businesses have been able to figure it out. If you can't figure out how to pay the lower figure of $15, well you definitely don't deserve to be in business.

Source: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t19.htm

[deadheadskier]

I think minimum wage should be determined by the states. Cost of living in NYC is a hell of a lot higher than it is in east f*** Montana. Why should they both have the same minimum wage? Even in NYC, when the rate went to 15$ a few years ago, 2 people lost their jobs where I was working because they couldn't afford to pay everyone $15 an hour. Regardless, it definitely should not be part of a covid relief bill.

I agree that it shouldn't be tied to the Covid Relief bill.

I disagree that we shouldn't have a federal minimum standard. Many states do and will continue to scale up from that standard. I don't think $15/hr is unreasonable at all. Across the vast majority of the country, even $15/hr isn't enough for people to live on. While I get the opinion that the market should decide labor value, the baseline should be "your work is valuable enough to at least modestly live on without needing government assistance." Not all of these jobs are occupied by youth still living with their parents. 57% are aged 24 and up. 32% aged 35 and up.

[Stormchaser]

Ok. So at $24 per hour it will cost an employer $48 per hour. Is that reasonable for unskilled labor? Add profit to that. For example. You have your vacation home checked once per week. That's a minimum 1 hour charge. You would be willing to spend $100 per week to have your house looked in on?

$48 per hour? How do you come up with that figure? Payroll tax is 7.65%. That means the employer only pays $25.84 per hour. Even if you provide benefits and include overhead, you're not hitting anywhere near $48 an hour. Reasonable overhead is 25%, and reasonable profit is 15%. That puts the hourly wage at $33.60, no where near $100.

If you as a business owner can't figure out how to run your business while paying a livable wage, you should go out of business. According to the BLS, average hourly wages in the U.S. for most workers are between $17-28 per hour, so most businesses have been able to figure it out. If you can't figure out how to pay the lower figure of $15, well you definitely don't deserve to be in business.

Source: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t19.htm

Most employers in my industry utilize a factor of 2.5 when determining billing rate from pay rate to cover overhead costs. Profit is added on top of that at roughly 20%. $24/hr x 2.5 x 1.2 = $72/hr $15/hr x 2.5 x 1.2 = $45/hr

[easyrider16]

Sure, but I bet your industry pays far, far above the minimum wage and doesn't run a business looking in on vacation homes with unskilled labor. But even still, using your method, you arrive at an hourly rate of $72 an hour, far less than ANGUS's $100.

Not to mention the absurdity of charging minimum 1 hour to "look in" on a vacation home once per week, which is a task that shouldn't take more than 20 minutes to half an hour at best including travel time.

[daytripper]

Ok. So at $24 per hour it will cost an employer $48 per hour. Is that reasonable for unskilled labor? Add profit to that. For example. You have your vacation home checked once per week. That's a minimum 1 hour charge. You would be willing to spend $100 per week to have your house looked in on?

$48 per hour? How do you come up with that figure? Payroll tax is 7.65%. That means the employer only pays $25.84 per hour. Even if you provide benefits and include overhead, you're not hitting anywhere near $48 an hour. Reasonable overhead is 25%, and reasonable profit is 15%. That puts the hourly wage at $33.60, no where near $100.

If you as a business owner can't figure out how to run your business while paying a livable wage, you should go out of business. According to the BLS, average hourly wages in the U.S. for most workers are between $17-28 per hour, so most businesses have been able to figure it out. If you can't figure out how to pay the lower figure of $15, well you definitely don't deserve to be in business.

Source: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t19.htm

What angus said is pretty close to true, the cost to pay an employee, at least in downstate ny, is almost double what you pay them per hour. If you are offering above average benefits it can cost more than double.

[easyrider16]

Certainly it's going to be different for different businesses, but I didn't pull those numbers out of thin air. Also keep in mind Angus is from NH, which has in many ways far lower overhead than downstate NY.

When you think about adding a new employee to your payroll, determine what the actual financial cost of doing so means to your business. This includes the dollars and cents over and above the basic wage or salary you agree to pay. There’s a rule of thumb that the cost is typically 1.25 to 1.4 times the salary, depending on certain variables.

https://www.sba.gov/blog/how-much-does- ... e-cost-you

Also, the original underlying point still stands - if your business can't afford to pay employees a livable wage, you shouldn't be in business.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

FALSE. In the end?..lots...LOTS of tasks....are the epitome of the old term..."flippin burgers". It isnt..and never will be..."Skilled Labor". I dont care...many dont care... if this hourly wage earner...cant feed his three kids off it. Personal responsibility ( or lack thereof)....is theirs...and theirs ALONE.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

...and... further?... most arent drawn in by the sh*t/uber-progressives old shtick .....why does the CEO earn 1000X what the manufacturing crew earns....