Impeachment?

[easyrider16]

You don't care that people who work 40+ hours a week are unable to feed their own kids? Unsurprising given your regular commentary on these forums, but still, that is a terrible mindset. It's also tremendously shortsighted. What do you think those people are going to do when they can't feed their kids? You think they'll just let them starve, or maybe do something that creates more problems for society like crime or voting for ultra liberal democrats?

There are people out there whose mental and emotional capacity is limited. They are not capable of anything more than unskilled labor. Should they starve? Why, so you can eat a cheap hamburger?

[deadheadskier]

FALSE. In the end?..lots...LOTS of tasks....are the epitome of the old term..."flippin burgers". It isnt..and never will be..."Skilled Labor". I dont care...many dont care... if this hourly wage earner...cant feed his three kids off it. Personal responsibility ( or lack thereof)....is theirs...and theirs ALONE.

So you'd rather the business not get stuck paying people a livable wage and instead have taxpayers cover the gaps with food stamps, insurance and housing assistance?

I'd rather pay a couple of bucks more for my cheeseburger than have my taxes go up to cover the gap McDonald's is unwilling to pay; and yes that's especially true when they have seven figure earning executives and franchise owners

It should be up to the businesses to figure it out or fail

[easyrider16]

This is a very good point. Allowing businesses to pay such low wages is a form of corporate welfare. It allows corporations to make more money, and stick society with the problem of how to deal with people who work full time yet can't afford to feed their families.

The free market only works when both sides have equal bargaining power. Highly skilled laborers like engineers and doctors have that equal bargaining power. Unskilled and low-skilled workers do not, and consequently the free market does not work for them. Their wages get artificially depressed by employers in a much stronger bargaining position. This is one area where it makes sense for government to step in and set a minimum wage.

[asher2789]

You don't care that people who work 40+ hours a week are unable to feed their own kids? Unsurprising given your regular commentary on these forums, but still, that is a terrible mindset. It's also tremendously shortsighted. What do you think those people are going to do when they can't feed their kids? You think they'll just let them starve, or maybe do something that creates more problems for society like crime or voting for ultra liberal democrats?

There are people out there whose mental and emotional capacity is limited. They are not capable of anything more than unskilled labor. Should they starve? Why, so you can eat a cheap hamburger?

the mindset of those your calling out as being... callous, is the root of my anger. the fact that they see a human being's worth based on their economic output makes me so sick and angry.

[asher2789]

This is a very good point. Allowing businesses to pay such low wages is a form of corporate welfare. It allows corporations to make more money, and stick society with the problem of how to deal with people who work full time yet can't afford to feed their families.

The free market only works when both sides have equal bargaining power. Highly skilled laborers like engineers and doctors have that equal bargaining power. Unskilled and low-skilled workers do not, and consequently the free market does not work for them. Their wages get artificially depressed by employers in a much stronger bargaining position. This is one area where it makes sense for government to step in and set a minimum wage.

even highly skilled employees (engineers, doctors) do not have much bargaining power. just look at the hospital conglomerates that stifle competition both for patients and doctors/other medical personnel. still, unless one is a star employee, truly the best of the best and one of the only people in their field who can do x, there is still the employer/employee power dynamic.

...and... further?... most arent drawn in by the sh*t/uber-progressives old shtick .....why does the CEO earn 1000X what the manufacturing crew earns....

bootlicker opinion alert. why has the ratio gone from 1:20 during the 1950s, aka, MAGA time, to 1:1000? (i don't actually believe its that high of a ratio - last i remember reading it was an average of 1:350) is the CEO magically more deserving because they now magically work 50 times harder? NO. they're committing wage theft from labor who's actual labor is the source of increased productivity.

[ANGUS]

Ok. So at $24 per hour it will cost an employer $48 per hour. Is that reasonable for unskilled labor? Add profit to that. For example. You have your vacation home checked once per week. That's a minimum 1 hour charge. You would be willing to spend $100 per week to have your house looked in on?

$48 per hour? How do you come up with that figure? Payroll tax is 7.65%. That means the employer only pays $25.84 per hour. Even if you provide benefits and include overhead, you're not hitting anywhere near $48 an hour. Reasonable overhead is 25%, and reasonable profit is 15%. That puts the hourly wage at $33.60, no where near $100.

If you as a business owner can't figure out how to run your business while paying a livable wage, you should go out of business. According to the BLS, average hourly wages in the U.S. for most workers are between $17-28 per hour, so most businesses have been able to figure it out. If you can't figure out how to pay the lower figure of $15, well you definitely don't deserve to be in business.

Source: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t19.htm

I'm not in business to be a public service. I'm in business to make money. That philosophy has served me well for almost 30 years. Every business has different overhead and operating conditions. We operate 24/7 365 as needed. With all that is required by our clients. They expect things to be dealt with at 2am. My market will bear a higher price. We start unskilled candidates at more than the $15 proposed min wage. Finding good people is impossible.

[easyrider16]

So then you are one of the ones who have figured out how to run a business while paying people a livable wage. You should be agreeing with me and have no problem with a $15 minimum wage. In fact a $15 minimum wage would be beneficial to your business, as your competitors wouldn't be able to undercut you by cheaping out on wages. Higher wages overall would also mean more people who make more money who could be potential customers of your business. I think you should call your congressperson right now and demand a $15 minimum wage.

[Dickc]

While 15 an hour is a laudable goal, I can't help but wonder how many will get passed over for a job because of poor resume/communication skills that would actually make a great employee. Perhaps there should be a lower introductory rate and a step up after a short trial period. It would need some type of safe guards to ensure the unscrupulous do not abuse it.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

As is said...a rising tide lifts all boats. So...every company.... is faced with a hefty per hour wage mandated. Good to knw...that Big Macs...and Whoppers...eec...will ALL see....diminished sales numbers

[ANGUS]

So then you are one of the ones who have figured out how to run a business while paying people a livable wage. You should be agreeing with me and have no problem with a $15 minimum wage. In fact a $15 minimum wage would be beneficial to your business, as your competitors wouldn't be able to undercut you by cheaping out on wages. Higher wages overall would also mean more people who make more money who could be potential customers of your business. I think you should call your congressperson right now and demand a $15 minimum wage.

I'm sorry I can't get behind that. To attract an employee with any potential you need to pay a competitive wage. Free market should dictate that. Not the government telling me I should hire idiots, addicts, criminals and the lazy for a set minimum price. This is a free country. Show up to work on time. Do your job well. Show responsibility. Rise up through the ranks and get paid more. Anyone in this country is free to better themselves. They are free to get a better job at any time.

[Bubba]

Raise the minimum too high and you get less labor and more automation and computerization. Walk into many fast food and other restaurants now and you order by computer.

Raise the minimum wage too high and the price of the finished product goes up. Where does that leave the worker who tends to eat fast food? He/she will have to pay more for the burger that used to be cheaper and we’ll need an even higher minimum wage.

Be careful what you wish for.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

I might ( phuk...WILL!) point out a laughable point:....one VERY opinionated...angry yoot around here...hates EVERYONE....EVERYTHING...and conveys what would ostentiably be her version of the mythical Utopia. ( Great band...lousy world attempt)...DEMANDS living wage...free healthcare...education...ad nauseum...all...while letting others know...she skis at LEAST...100 days a year!. Hell.....Im self employed 35 years... a K homeowner....and even the years I was a staffer?...I couldnt come even CLOSE. Laugh...LOUDLY.

[easyrider16]

Raise the minimum too high and you get less labor and more automation and computerization. Walk into many fast food and other restaurants now and you order by computer.

Raise the minimum wage too high and the price of the finished product goes up. Where does that leave the worker who tends to eat fast food? He/she will have to pay more for the burger that used to be cheaper and we’ll need an even higher minimum wage.

Be careful what you wish for.

Automation is going to happen regardless of minimum wage. As you said, it's happening now even though minimum wage is absurdly low. In fact, automation is a strong argument for a higher minimum wage. As automation continues to expand, it's going to make it even harder for unskilled or lesser-skilled workers to find jobs, which will further add to the bargaining power of employers over wage earners.

As I said earlier, a business that can't pay a living wage to workers shouldn't be in business. If that means higher prices, so be it. We'll still be better off overall because people who earn living wages can afford to pay higher prices.

I agree raising the minimum too high could be damaging. But what is too high? $15 an hour seems too low. In 1968 you had the equivalent of $24 an hour and somehow the U.S. economy survived. Why not use history as a guide?

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[Bubba]

I agree raising the minimum too high could be damaging. But what is too high? $15 an hour seems too low. In 1968 you had the equivalent of $24 an hour and somehow the U.S. economy survived. Why not use history as a guide?

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This was followed soon after by a period of exceedingly high inflation driven by a combination of factors including:

Guns and butter spending by the Johnson and Nixon administrations
Oil price increases led by OPEC
Union contracts with COLAs

The third item should be a lesson to all in applying a COLA to the minimum wage. It sounds good but has consequences.

[easyrider16]

Quick google seems to suggest that blaming union contracts with COLAs for the runaway inflation of the 1970's is debatable.

The great inflation was blamed on oil prices, currency speculators, greedy businessmen, and avaricious union leaders. However, it is clear that monetary policies, which financed massive budget deficits and were supported by political leaders, were the cause.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/e ... lation.asp

See also:
https://www.federalreservehistory.org/e ... -inflation
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/upsh ... 1970s.html

But I do concede that a direct tie to inflation might not be such a great idea if we get runaway inflation like we had in the 1970's. Nonetheless, an annual increase is warranted because otherwise, minimum wage gets entirely eroded by inflation over time. That's the situation we find ourselves in today. A $7.25 minimum wage is a joke. Even ANGUS has trouble hiring unskilled yokels in the back woods of New Hampshire for $15. My suggestion would be start at $15, and add 1-2% annually.