New Rioting in MN

[skidogg]

soooo guilty on all counts

[daytripper]

soooo guilty on all counts

Was there really any question that he wasn't?

[deadheadskier]

soooo guilty on all counts

Was there really any question that he wasn't?

Yes

Plenty of people argued that the Fentanyl was the COD. Others felt only Manslaughter was deserved, but not murder. Howie Carr would be one of the latter and borderline the former. Stated that he felt one of the "experts" was right and that Floyd could have died in his bed that night from the drugs. I was just listening to his show during the announcement. Most of the callers also didn't agree with the verdict. One guy argued that had a woman cop been in his place and weighed the same (140#) that she would have gotten a not guilty verdict.

[skidogg]

soooo guilty on all counts

Was there really any question that he wasn't?

to me? no but juries don't always see it as i do
they have to render a desision on the facts as proven in court
i would hope to be as fair and unbiased as they

[easyrider16]

Re Ma'Khia Bryant - looking at the video, the shooting certainly looks justified. It looks like the girl was swinging a knife toward the victim. I do have questions as to whether there were options for de-escalation or application of nonlethal force. Nonetheless, from a legal perspective, it appears that the officer exercised deadly force in an effort to prevent serious bodily injury to another. That's justifiable, unless additional facts come out that suggest a different result.

Lebron James' tweet was not a good look. I certainly sympathize with BLM's goals of reducing police use of excessive force, but tweeting that an officer is "next" implying that she should be brought up on murder charges in a situation like this is inappropriate and unhelpful. It's also not very thoughtful or well considered. Each individual situation has its own nuances. We should certainly ask questions and demand answers when police exercise the use of force. But we should also be open-minded enough to accept that sometimes, perhaps most of the time, that use of force is justified by the situation.

The other thought that occurs to me once again is that police need more and better training. From what I can tell, in Ohio, to become a police officer you take an 18 week course at the academy and "up to" 24 hours of additional training per year depending on funding, but that could be zero if there's no funding available. Seems to me 24 hours should be a low minimum, not a maximum. I think 40-80 hours per year would make a lot more sense. And 18 weeks in academy? That seems pretty minimal. The Massachusetts program is 29 weeks, and frankly it could/should probably be longer.

Here's a thought - apparently police training in hand to hand combat is pretty minimal. That seems short-sighted. Most cops will never fire their weapon, but I'd venture to guess most cops at some point will have to subdue someone physically. If they are well trained in hand to hand combat, that would certainly help. And perhaps it would make them feel more confident in some situations such that instead of reaching for their gun, they would reach for a night stick or other less lethal weapon.

Here's another thought - police need additional nonlethal weapons. Perhaps bean bag or rubber bullet weapons that can put a suspect on their ass with less risk of killing them.

[easyrider16]

And then there's this:

"If the girl Ma'Khia Bryant is the one that made that 911 call, that changes everything because that tells me that at some point she was afraid of a knife attack if in fact, that was her making the call ... where she's begging an officer to come to the scene because someone has a knife and is attacking her and others," the former prosecutor explained.

"That really changes everything because that takes her away from being the original aggressor," Grace emphasized.

Ashley Willcott, a judge and trial attorney who joined Grace for the segment, agreed.

"Absolutely that changes everything because she's not the original aggressor," Willcott said. "She, therefore, was initially the victim and there's a very good argument then [that she was] defending herself."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/nancy-gra ... g-911-call

[XtremeJibber2001]

I think the Ma'Khia Bryan incident demonstrates how some are going too far with their desire for de-escalation. Ma'Khia Bryan was actively trying to stab someone at close proximity so the officer neutralized the threat. Officer did their job. Handling the situation any other way may have resulted in Ma'Khia Bryan stabbing/killing the other person.

[brownman]

What ever happened to ‘shoot em in the knee’ ?
These all appear to be kill shots now.

The public video posting and airing of all these shootings has reached the saturation level.
Automate ticketing .. avoid traffic stops .. escalation begins anytime the law approaches a vehicle.
The lead story every day involves guns. Founding fathers never contemplated that.

[easyrider16]

New video from neighbor's garage seems to support that Bryant was the aggressor and the shooting was justified.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/im-gonna-st ... -shooting/

[daytripper]

I think the Ma'Khia Bryan incident demonstrates how some are going too far with their desire for de-escalation. Ma'Khia Bryan was actively trying to stab someone at close proximity so the officer neutralized the threat. Officer did their job. Handling the situation any other way may have resulted in Ma'Khia Bryan stabbing/killing the other person.

Agreed, I would say the cop saved the life of the other girl, she was clearly about to be stabbed.

[Mister Moose]

What ever happened to ‘shoot em in the knee’ ?
These all appear to be kill shots now.

So you shoot the knife wielder in the knee (A far trickier and risky shot and more likely to miss), and he/she stabs the victim as was imminent anyway. Now what?

You need to incapacitate the life threatening perpetrator, not make him/her angry.

[deadheadskier]

I think the Ma'Khia Bryan incident demonstrates how some are going too far with their desire for de-escalation. Ma'Khia Bryan was actively trying to stab someone at close proximity so the officer neutralized the threat. Officer did their job. Handling the situation any other way may have resulted in Ma'Khia Bryan stabbing/killing the other person.

I tend to agree, but what if the officer missed with one of those five rounds and hit the potential victim instead?

It's a tough call when a situation escalates that fast.

Would non-lethal options such as a taser or rubber bullets have neutralized the threat as well?

I don't know the answer to that.

Moral of the story unfortunately is if you try to attack someone with a weapon in front of a police officer, you might get shot. Sadly, a 16 year old might not be old enough to understand that

[XtremeJibber2001]

I think the Ma'Khia Bryan incident demonstrates how some are going too far with their desire for de-escalation. Ma'Khia Bryan was actively trying to stab someone at close proximity so the officer neutralized the threat. Officer did their job. Handling the situation any other way may have resulted in Ma'Khia Bryan stabbing/killing the other person.

I tend to agree, but what if the officer missed with one of those five rounds and hit the potential victim instead?

It's a tough call when a situation escalates that fast.

Would non-lethal options such as a taser or rubber bullets have neutralized the threat as well?

I don't know the answer to that.

Moral of the story unfortunately is if you try to attack someone with a weapon in front of a police officer, you might get shot. Sadly, a 16 year old might not be old enough to understand that

I think a 16 year old should have the wherewithal to know they shouldn't try to stab other people, police officer present or not.

[easyrider16]

So there's two different issues here I think:

1) should this police officer be sanctioned in some way? I think the answer is no, in fact his actions likely saved someone from death or serious bodily injury.

2) is there a better way to handle this situation? I think the answer is maybe. Maybe it's a training issue, maybe the possibility of nonlethal weapons. Or maybe there was no better way. I think we need to approach this issue carefully and without losing sight of issue #1. But I also think the best possible outcome here was zero loss of life. That should be the goal in every case.

[deadheadskier]

I think the Ma'Khia Bryan incident demonstrates how some are going too far with their desire for de-escalation. Ma'Khia Bryan was actively trying to stab someone at close proximity so the officer neutralized the threat. Officer did their job. Handling the situation any other way may have resulted in Ma'Khia Bryan stabbing/killing the other person.

I tend to agree, but what if the officer missed with one of those five rounds and hit the potential victim instead?

It's a tough call when a situation escalates that fast.

Would non-lethal options such as a taser or rubber bullets have neutralized the threat as well?

I don't know the answer to that.

Moral of the story unfortunately is if you try to attack someone with a weapon in front of a police officer, you might get shot. Sadly, a 16 year old might not be old enough to understand that

I think a 16 year old should have the wherewithal to know they shouldn't try to stab other people, police officer present or not.

Operative word here is "should."

MANY 16 year olds and even people older than that do not have the awareness of potential consequences. Both the consequences to themselves and the danger to others. Kids have physical fights about dumb sh*t all the time. Hell there was a cult classic 80s film called 3 o'clock high about this very thing. I also remember many after school fights (some involving weapons) at my middle and high schools, which is essentially what this was.

Now if they played that bodycam footage in schools to show the deadly real life consequences, maybe more kids would understand and think twice about it.