Why do Republicans contribute so little to the economy?

[KingsFourMan]

How about they are moving because of stifling taxes and regulations? The denial is strong with dead weight and jibberish.

Got a cite to an actual source? I can see this as being true for businesses, e.g. Elon Musk moving a Tesla factory to Texas for less regulations. But I think you're talking about individuals, and I haven't really seen anything that suggests individuals are moving because of taxes and regulations.

You can't be serious.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

...and dont call me Shirley... Gotta say....CheezeyonRyeder.....IS good for laughs and such.

[daytripper]

How about they are moving because of stifling taxes and regulations? The denial is strong with dead weight and jibberish.

Got a cite to an actual source? I can see this as being true for businesses, e.g. Elon Musk moving a Tesla factory to Texas for less regulations. But I think you're talking about individuals, and I haven't really seen anything that suggests individuals are moving because of taxes and regulations.

You can't be serious.

Yeah, that one was good for a laugh!

[easyrider16]

Cool, sounds like you guys have lots of sources that suggest people are moving due to taxes and regulations. Care to share them so that I can see what you're talking about? All of the sources cited so far in this thread suggest a complex series of motivations, from Covid to housing prices to jobs to family. None that I've seen suggest it's because of government regulations. One article cited taxes as one among many reasons. I have yet to talk to someone and have them say they moved because of regulations, or solely because of taxes. Most people I've talked to moved because of some quality of life reason, like being closer to family, or a job, or cheaper housing, etc. If they got lower taxes as part of the deal, that was mostly just a bonus. This fits with the data I've seen.

So, yes, I am serious. Do you have any data to add?

[yiddle on da fiddle]

some are clearly FROM this fine state...YOU?.. are from some OTHER state. State of...Confusion?

[KingsFourMan]

Cool, sounds like you guys have lots of sources that suggest people are moving due to taxes and regulations. Care to share them so that I can see what you're talking about? All of the sources cited so far in this thread suggest a complex series of motivations, from Covid to housing prices to jobs to family. None that I've seen suggest it's because of government regulations. One article cited taxes as one among many reasons. I have yet to talk to someone and have them say they moved because of regulations, or solely because of taxes. Most people I've talked to moved because of some quality of life reason, like being closer to family, or a job, or cheaper housing, etc. If they got lower taxes as part of the deal, that was mostly just a bonus. This fits with the data I've seen.

So, yes, I am serious. Do you have any data to add?

So, you don't think that property taxes have anything to do with the cost of housing? And that it's just a coincidence that the states that people are fleeing in droves are high tax states and that the states that they are moving to are low tax states? You need sources to convince you of this? How old are you?

What are you going to tell us next, that skyrocketing crime in democratic run cities with defund the police lunacy isn't also a factor in people fleeing? Oh, OK.

[easyrider16]

I'm not sure what my age has to do with requesting evidence to support a proposition. Seems like something one should do at any age.

You seem like you have a fairly partisan take on this issue. I don't. I'm just trying to look at the facts and reach a conclusion. I agree that defunding the police is bad and I don't like liberal democrat policies. But as I said above, the data suggests that people don't move for politics, generally speaking.

There are democratic states that are seeing influxes, like Washington and Maine. I think it has less to do with politics and more to do with quality of life. People usually bring their politics with them when they move. See e.g. NH. If people were really fleeing liberal policies, why would they continue to vote for Democrats after they move?

Data: https://www.atlasvanlines.com/migration-patterns

[Bubba]

Vermont has seen population growth over the past year. I assume it’s because people want to pay higher income and property taxes.

[Mister Moose]

If people were really fleeing liberal policies, why would they continue to vote for Democrats after they move?

Same reason people move from dense suburbs to smaller towns with more open space and lower taxes, and then vote for conveniences and enhancements... wider roads, more plowing, better grocery stores, sidewalks, bigger police and fire departments, new school buildings, and one day they wake up where they moved from. They don't understand that they boiled their own frog.

[Fancypants]

Vermont has seen population growth over the past year. I assume it’s because people want to pay higher income and property taxes.

Not at all. A good percentage of those folks are actually coming from NYC, where they are likely paying tax rates that are 10x times what they would pay in the Verdis Mountis State.

[easyrider16]

They don't understand that they boiled their own frog.

I suppose that's one possible explanation. The other possible explanation, equally as logical, is that they moved for reasons other than politics. The difference between one explanation and the other is there is data to back up one of them and not the other.

[deadheadskier]

Three states have lost population since 2010; Illinois (high tax blue), Mississippi (low tax deep red) and West Virginia (low tax deep red). And even though it's high tax, I'm guessing the cost of living in rural Illinois is dirt cheap.

Why aren't people moving to these places if the equation is as simple as people migrate to low cost of living areas?

[yiddle on da fiddle]

soft purty mouths.....

[KingsFourMan]

I'm not sure what my age has to do with requesting evidence to support a proposition. Seems like something one should do at any age.

You seem like you have a fairly partisan take on this issue. I don't. I'm just trying to look at the facts and reach a conclusion. I agree that defunding the police is bad and I don't like liberal democrat policies. But as I said above, the data suggests that people don't move for politics, generally speaking.

There are democratic states that are seeing influxes, like Washington and Maine. I think it has less to do with politics and more to do with quality of life. People usually bring their politics with them when they move. See e.g. NH. If people were really fleeing liberal policies, why would they continue to vote for Democrats after they move?

Data: https://www.atlasvanlines.com/migration-patterns

You don't think that taxes are a partisan issue??

And that people don't move in large part to escape high taxes? That's absolutely absurd.

Below is from the very first article to pop up when doing a search for "states with the highest out migration":

The 2020 National Movers Study shows Idaho, South Carolina, Oregon, South Dakota, and Arizona as the states with the highest proportion of inbound moves. New Jersey, New York, Illinois, Connecticut, and California saw the highest proportion of outbound migration. Inbound and outbound moves were nearly balanced in Colorado, Wisconsin, and Michigan. (Vermont also saw a high percentage of inbound moves, perhaps reflecting migration from New York, but it was excluded from the survey’s rankings because the sample size was too small.)

In this study, United Van Lines tracks a few of the most common reasons that people pack up and move to a new state. While “state tax climate” is not a listed reason in this study, we can see glimpses of how taxes can affect decision-making.

Taxes may have limited influence on whether someone takes a job, but they can influence where jobs are available, and where a person taking a position might locate. The latter is perhaps most visible in smaller states and states with metropolitan centers located near state borders. For example, tens of thousands of individuals work in greater Chicago but live in Indiana, where many interstate commutes are attributable, at least in part, to stark differences in tax landscapes, particularly property taxes. While it is difficult to measure the extent to which tax considerations factor into individuals’ moving decisions, there is no doubt that taxes are important in many individuals’ personal financial deliberations. With the rise of remote work, moreover, individuals are likely to be more mobile than ever, able to make decisions about where to live that are independent of where their employer is located.

Another reason people moved was retirement.

Top 10 States for Retirement-Motivated Moves, 2020
State Rank
Delaware 1
Florida 2
South Carolina 3
Arizona 4
Wyoming 5
Idaho 6
New Mexico 7
Nevada 8
Maine 9
North Carolina 10
Note: Source: United Van Lines, 2020 National Movers Study

It’s unsurprising that retirees gravitated toward states with good climates, but many of these top states also have tax climates that would be attractive to retirees. Nine out of these 10 states either exempt a large portion of Social Security from income taxes, exempt Social Security completely, or have no income tax at all. Retirees, moreover, are freer to consider factors like taxation than those who are tied to a job.

Our State Business Tax Climate Index uses over 100 variables to evaluate states on the competitiveness of their tax rates and structures. Four of the 10 worst-performing states on this year’s Index are also among the 10 states with the most outbound migration in this year’s National Movers Study (New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, and California). Seven of the top 10 ranked inbound migration states also rank in the top half of states on the Index, which measures tax structure. And the three which do not (Alabama, Arkansas, and South Carolina), while having significant room for improvement in the structure of their tax codes, generally feature low tax burdens. Conversely, all but one of the top outbound states rank in the bottom third of the Index, the only exception being North Dakota (17th), where outbound migration has been driven by a decline in energy markets.

While certain factors are outside a state’s control (sunny Florida may always have a certain competitive advantage in attracting retirees, for example), every state can foster an attractive economic landscape through wise tax policy decisions.

[XtremeJibber2001]

The original assertion was people are moving BECAUSE OF taxes and regulations. It's clear from the article that this is not a PRIMARY reason, even though it plays a role.