Ukraine / Russia

[Bubba]

The Atlantic

“The End of the New Peace”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ce/672385/

“Never underestimate human stupidity…”

[Bubba]

This is an excellent (albeit lengthy) article about the war and its roots. The final paragraph, quoted below is, however, a really depressing conclusion about how this conflict might eventually come to an end.

The revenge of history in Ukraine: year of war has shaken up world order
A shared sense of national history is proving to be a crucial weapon, spurring on Ukraine resistance and Russian soldiers

by Patrick Wintour Diplomatic editor

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... g-conflict

Jade McGlynn, an Oxford academic and author of the forthcoming Russia’s War, explains why it is so hard for Russia to relinquish Ukraine. “Sergei Lavrov [the Russian foreign minister], for instance, says that without Russia, Ukraine does not have any history. But it is actually the opposite. Without Ukraine, Russia’s understanding of its own identity – this third Rome, based on Orthodoxy, this gathering of all the lands of Rus – does not really work. You cannot espouse this state messianic role if you cannot convince ethnic Russians to join you in cultural communion and you to have bomb them.

“That is why it is going to be very hard for Russia ever to accept this war has failed.”

[Bubba]

This Is Not 1943
How Putin twists the history of World War II

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... da/672934/

[Mister Moose]

This Is Not 1943
How Putin twists the history of World War II

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... da/672934/

That article shows how important free speech, an independent press and a well read people are.

I'm no historian, but what other war has had such motivated defenders, and such unwilling soldiers on the offense? Then add in the degree of western support for Ukraine.

If Crimea & the Donbas turns on will, Russia has already lost it.

[XtremeJibber2001]

I'm no historian, but what other war has had such motivated defenders, and such unwilling soldiers on the offense? Then add in the degree of western support for Ukraine.

Vietnam war? Swap western support for China's support of the North Vietnamese?

[easyrider16]

Vietnam war? Swap western support for China's support of the North Vietnamese?

Not sure that's a good comparison. U.S. soldiers by and large might not have been enthusiastic, but they were nowhere near as demoralized as the Russian army seems to be. In Vietnam, the U.S. won almost every engagement. By contrast, Russia is not winning a lot of engagements, and when they are, it's with horrific losses. Here's the real kicker - In ten years of Vietnam, the U.S. lost 58,220 troops. Russia, since the start of this invasion a year ago, has lost an estimated 130,000.

I'm surprised Russia has lasted this long. It's a testament to how strong a grip Putin has had on power in Russia. But I think ultimately this war is going to break his regime the way Afghanistan broke the Soviet Union in the 1980s.

[deadheadskier]

This Is Not 1943
How Putin twists the history of World War II

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... da/672934/

That article shows how important free speech, an independent press and a well read people are.

If you truly believe this, then why did you twice vote for a wannabe authoritarian who constantly attacks the free press and not vote for the candidates the majority of well read people voted for?

[Mister Moose]

This Is Not 1943
How Putin twists the history of World War II

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... da/672934/

That article shows how important free speech, an independent press and a well read people are.

If you truly believe this, then why did you twice vote for a wannabe authoritarian who constantly attacks the free press and not vote for the candidates the majority of well read people voted for?

Sounds like a question that spews hyperbole in its suppositions to me.

[Fancypants]

This Is Not 1943
How Putin twists the history of World War II

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... da/672934/

That article shows how important free speech, an independent press and a well read people are.

If you truly believe this, then why did you twice vote for a wannabe authoritarian who constantly attacks the free press and not vote for the candidates the majority of well read people voted for?

Wait... Mr Moose voted for Joe and the Dems??

[XtremeJibber2001]

This Is Not 1943
How Putin twists the history of World War II

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... da/672934/

That article shows how important free speech, an independent press and a well read people are.

If you truly believe this, then why did you twice vote for a wannabe authoritarian who constantly attacks the free press and not vote for the candidates the majority of well read people voted for?

Sounds like a question that spews hyperbole in its suppositions to me.

Sounds like you're being coy

[easyrider16]

Well Russian TV is talking about using nukes now. That's scary as hell.

I would point out that if Russia did deploy a nuclear weapon, it would remove any impediment from western nations joining the fight outright. Russia would be crushed. It would also be horrible for all involved.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ru ... r-AA17fuqd

[XtremeJibber2001]

Well Russian TV is talking about using nukes now. That's scary as hell.

I would point out that if Russia did deploy a nuclear weapon, it would remove any impediment from western nations joining the fight outright. Russia would be crushed. It would also be horrible for all involved.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ru ... r-AA17fuqd

Would NATO / Western Nations sacrifice themselves to defend Ukraine, should it be hit by a nuke? It's sad, but I don't think so. I don't think you'll see France, UK, US, etc. willing to risk a nuclear attack against a place like Paris, London, NYC for Ukraine.

[easyrider16]

I think the opposite is true. I think if a nuclear weapon gets deployed anywhere in Europe by Russia, NATO will have to act, if for no other reason than fear that Russia will throw a nuke at one of them. Once Russia takes those particular gloves off, you have to assume that they are capable of deploying those weapons anywhere, any time, as they have been threatening the West with them all along.

[Bubba]

Well Russian TV is talking about using nukes now. That's scary as hell.

I would point out that if Russia did deploy a nuclear weapon, it would remove any impediment from western nations joining the fight outright. Russia would be crushed. It would also be horrible for all involved.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ru ... r-AA17fuqd

News Flash! They've been doing this since the it became apparent that they couldn't take Kiev in three days.

[easyrider16]

Russia lost some 50% of its tanks in the past year, US Deputy Treasury Secretary Wally Adeyemo said.

If true, that is absolutely wild. Half its tanks? I mean if this goes on much longer, the Ukraine war will basically destroy Russia's ability to make war. That's absurd.

Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ru ... r-AA17MDV6