Mountain Green Sales?

[Big Bob]

And using some of that $35K plus extra per year to go do some real skiing out west or in Europe no doubt.

I'm a little down on Killington this season (and the past few). I've opted not to renew my season pass...

So where will you be purchasing a season pass too? I get 3, all midweek to keep the cost down. Killington, Cannon, and The New England Bronze pass.
Next season I will get a Killington senior unlimited passs, about $60 more than the midweek pass. The Cannon pass is $44 for the season.

[KingsFourMan]

I seriously considered buying in CO over 20 years ago, but ended up buying in VT for a number of reasons. Units were cheaper, STR income was better, and I knew I would only see the CO unit a couple of times a year while I could drive to VT easily. When I retired, I found the STR income in prime season (February) covered my costs for an extended trip to CO. Everything - condo rental, passes, travel costs, etc. CO real estate is crazy expensive, and taxes and other costs there are maybe worse than New England.

It sounds like that was a good decision for you that has worked out well. Everyone's circumstances are different. We purchased 22 acres of raw land 21 years ago in Plymouth for $80K and put about $40K more into it in site improvements. Had we put that $120K down on a condo in Steamboat, Vail or Snowmass that we could have purchased for $350K to $400K back then, it would be worth between $1.2 and $1.5M today. Our investment in VT is currently worth about $250K.

Knowing what I know now about what real estate has done, how shitty the northeast winters have become, and how absurd VT taxes would become, I wish that is what we had done even though like you, we would have only gotten out there once a year while our 3 daughters were growing up. It would have mostly been an investment in the future whereas our investment in VT 21 years ago was an investment in the present that paid off with a lot of fun, a ton of great memories, and a lot of great friendships so I don't have total regret. But the home that we have been dreaming about building in VT for 20 years, and have already had designed, will now cost us about $1M to build and have taxes in excess of $25K/per year and we are not talking about a huge house at all at around 2,100 SF...on land that we already own. The condo in CO would be paid off by now, would be worth more, have far less taxes, and be near our oldest daughter in Denver, college buddies on the front range, world class skiing, and some of the best snowmobiling terrain on the planet at either Vail Pass or Rabbit Ears Pass both of which are tens of thousands of acres each with hundreds of miles of trails open to the public. All of those things far outweigh what we've already had in VT, and what we could have in VT going forward.

I can't take shitty east coast conditions anymore where it r*ins more in winter than it snows, especially for what it will cost in taxes. Because of that, I now want to spend my winters in CO in retirement which is going to be a lot more difficult to pull off now than it would have been had we bought there in the first place.

[Bubba]

One of the first rules in purchasing vacation property is not to buy it as an investment. You buy it because you want to enjoy it, and any subsequent appreciation in value comes as a bonus.

[random1]

If you were to buy a 1-bedroom for $185k, and pay the $185k in special assessments, your cost would be over $600/sf. This is more money than even the highest priced units for sale in all of Killington (Top Ridge).

This is nuts! How much would a complete rebuild cost?!

[KingsFourMan]

One of the first rules in purchasing vacation property is not to buy it as an investment. You buy it because you want to enjoy it, and any subsequent appreciation in value comes as a bonus.

That is exactly right and is exactly what we did, we were not thinking investment at all...but knowing what I know today, I would have done the opposite. That being said, there was no way of knowing and like I said, a lot of good came of our VT purchase.

[Stormchaser]

One of the first rules in purchasing vacation property is not to buy it as an investment. You buy it because you want to enjoy it, and any subsequent appreciation in value comes as a bonus.

That is exactly right and is exactly what we did, we were not thinking investment at all...but knowing what I know today, I would have done the opposite. That being said, there was no way of knowing and like I said, a lot of good came of our VT purchase.

My place more or less ended up as a wash for 17 years of ownership. 17 years of enjoyment with no significant cost. That certainly was about to change...

[ozzy]

But the home that we have been dreaming about building in VT for 20 years, and have already had designed, will now cost us about $1M to build and have taxes in excess of $25K/per year and we are not talking about a huge house at all at around 2,100 SF...on land that we already own.
[/quote]

A 2100 sq ft custom home for $1M in Plymouth? How?

I would think the high side would be $175/ sq ft, no?

[Mister Moose]

While $175/ft strikes me as lower end of the scale, 1MM for 2,100 feet does sound luxurious. That's $476/ft and you already own the land. Since the home was described as "designed" that likely invalidates all the usual averages. Does it have a long driveway, lots of glass, complicated floor plan, blasting, big septic, multi angled roof, higher end trim, millwork, cabinets, etc etc?

For comparison there is a listing right now in Rutland for 2,520 sq ft on 1/3 acre new construction for $475k. That's $188/ft including land.

The $475k $188/ft new house

[Bubba]

From The Mountain Times

$50 million assessment at Mountain Green to hit condo owners in July
After decades of calling Killington home, some say it’s too expensive for them to stay

By Katy Savage

https://mountaintimes.info/50-million-a ... s-in-july/

[KingsFourMan]

While $175/ft strikes me as lower end of the scale, 1MM for 2,100 feet does sound luxurious. That's $476/ft and you already own the land. Since the home was described as "designed" that likely invalidates all the usual averages. Does it have a long driveway, lots of glass, complicated floor plan, blasting, big septic, multi angled roof, higher end trim, millwork, cabinets, etc etc?

For comparison there is a listing right now in Rutland for 2,520 sq ft on 1/3 acre new construction for $475k. That's $188/ft including land.

The $475k $188/ft new house

That is a very basic, small home which looks to be modular (factor built), and very low-end.

$188/sf isn't even close to what it would cost for us to build. With me acting as my own GC and not paying a builder's 10-15% mark-up, it would be a minimum of $375/sf if we were careful and kept the finishes middle of the road or slightly above. I misspoke, the house is actually 2,400sf not 2,100sf so 2,400sf x $375/sf = $900,000 plus $40-$45,000 for the septic system including the design and permitting fees, $30-35,000 for the underground power by GMP, $5-10,000 for the well, and $7,500 for Architect fees puts us over $1M...and that doesn't include the land which we already own! And with a new $1M home on 22 acres with beautiful long-range views into NH (you've heard of the view tax right?), our taxes will be well north of $25K per year with this latest 25%-27% increase that is coming.

My architect early on in the design process said that I was looking at $375/sf if doing it myself. I've already priced out all of the major trades with local contractors, many of them are neighbors and friends or friends of those neighbors and friends, and my architect was spot on.

Attached are the architectural plans for the house. I've blocked out our names because I prefer to be anonymous on public forums. It is not a low-end house by any means but it is not the taj mahal either. There are items like the wrap around porch, masonry fireplace, finished walk-out basement, and large bathrooms that add significant cost but still $1M and $25K pus in taxes??? That's insane. 4 to 5 years ago it would have been around $550K or around $225-230/sf to build at most.

[Nikoli]

Nice looking design.

[ozzy]

So now what, sell that property with all the building rights?
Yes, nice looking design and modest.

[Mister Moose]

In some respects, I feel like we are becoming our grandparents or parents that groaned about how gas was 25 cents a gallon when they were going on dates in high school. Everything has gone up. A lot. There's still post COVID shortages in some materials.

That huge porch is a big item. So is the dual opening fireplace. And the retaining walls. Have you thought about renting an excavator and saving most of the 30k for utilities? You can downsize the dream, but still attain it.

Yes, the house I posted is very basic. But it illustrates where the starting point is. And there's only 2 houses currently that come up (in Rutland) using the 'new construction' qualifier.

In the end, I don't think I would build my 'dream home' in VT either. I might build something, but it would be far smaller/less view/short driveway so the taxes wouldn't cause me gastric distress. It's unfortunate that the tax structure imposes those decisions, but there we are.

What, no garage? How can you have a dream home with no multi bay, beer fridge, tool chest, car lift, big stereo garage?

[Big Bob]

While $175/ft strikes me as lower end of the scale, 1MM for 2,100 feet does sound luxurious. That's $476/ft and you already own the land. Since the home was described as "designed" that likely invalidates all the usual averages. Does it have a long driveway, lots of glass, complicated floor plan, blasting, big septic, multi angled roof, higher end trim, millwork, cabinets, etc etc?

For comparison there is a listing right now in Rutland for 2,520 sq ft on 1/3 acre new construction for $475k. That's $188/ft including land.

The $475k $188/ft new house

Is the basement finished to get to 2520 sq ft? Something doesn't seem right!

Some of the houses I have been involved with are $500/ sf. One large Marvin multipane slider is $26K. Window package was over $400k with what the owner chose, was knocked down to $250k with a lower grade Marvin product after they were schooled.

[Mister Moose]

Is the basement finished to get to 2520 sq ft? Something doesn't seem right!

Yes. The other side: