Of course it's IKON

[Big Bob]

Hmm, Pico has old lifts? Surprise surprise, that's what you get when you don't build a lift for 35 years. Killington isn't much better. Since 1998, they've built a total of 3 new lifts, so a lift every 9 years. At that rate, it'll take them 153 years to replace everything.

No ski resort has wasted their full potential more than Killington has. All thanks to two parent companies who screwed them at every opportunity. They should be building a new lift almost every year just to turn over the fleet at a reasonable age. Instead, they can't keep up on basic maintenance.

I was at Loon yesterday. three new lift installs and a new trail pod in the last three years. The lifts all ran with very few stops, parking lot was full, but short lines if any. Sunday River has had 4 new lift installs and major snowmaking upgrades. Sugarloaf has installed a new lift and a very large trail pod. Boyne seems to be making money and investing in their areas in the east. Where would you rather drop some money on real estate?

[Stormchaser]

Could be the worst seasonal effort on the part of Killington in my 25+ year season pass history. Snowmaking at reduced capacity blowing half trails with ultra-slow production, lifts closed or broken or delayed for reasons under their control, staff that falls on its face at every single winter weather event, tight lipped and delayed communication practices, serious shuttle bus and parking deficiencies, unwarranted delayed trail openings and closures, and electronic surveillance and general disrespect for its customer base. Management should be ashamed.

[jimmywilson69]

I was at Loon yesterday. three new lift installs and a new trail pod in the last three years. The lifts all ran with very few stops, parking lot was full, but short lines if any. Sunday River has had 4 new lift installs and major snowmaking upgrades. Sugarloaf has installed a new lift and a very large trail pod. Boyne seems to be making money and investing in their areas in the east. Where would you rather drop some money on real estate?

Boyne is Killing it, one can't argue that. They are investing in their big flagship resorts and their "local" Michigan places as well.

Could be the worst seasonal effort on the part of Killington in my 25+ year season pass history. Snowmaking at reduced capacity blowing half trails with ultra-slow production, lifts closed or broken or delayed for reasons under their control, staff that falls on its face at every single winter weather event, tight lipped and delayed communication practices, serious shuttle bus and parking deficiencies, unwarranted delayed trail openings and closures, and electronic surveillance and general disrespect for its customer base. Management should be ashamed.

As an observer, but yearly multi-visit attendee, this seems pretty true. Something is off. I'm curious to see for myself when I visit at the end of the month and in March. Hoping its not as bad as it appears...

[Low Rider]

In fairness I think Powdr has done a reasonable job of upgrades since taking over. More of the fault lies in the prior ownership and Powdr has had a lot of catching up to do. Things like pumphouses and pipe replacement etc are not visually as "sexy" but do make a difference.

Boyne is for sure is doing a lot though there is no doubt about that - but they are not immune from the Ikon Swarm either - Reports from friends at SR say that the crowd on some Saturdays exceeds the infrastructure capability.

The Ikon Saturdays are indeed a problem that I believe will have to be addressed.

[daytripper]

Powdr has done a good job upgrading lodges but not upgrading lifts. Yes they inherited a $hitshow from ASC but they need to do more than replace 3 lifts in 15+ years. Pipe replacement is an issue too, that pipe on upper east fall blows out multiple times a year and hasn't been replaced. Upper wildfire hasn't been blown probably because they don't want the pipe to blow out. Lower great eastern blows out all the time too. The only problematic pipe that's been replaced was lower wildfire. I don't see what you are seeing as reasonable job of upgrades.

[Low Rider]

Powdr has done a good job upgrading lodges but not upgrading lifts. Yes they inherited a $hitshow from ASC but they need to do more than replace 3 lifts in 15+ years. Pipe replacement is an issue too, that pipe on upper east fall blows out multiple times a year and hasn't been replaced. Upper wildfire hasn't been blown probably because they don't want the pipe to blow out. Lower great eastern blows out all the time too. The only problematic pipe that's been replaced was lower wildfire. I don't see what you are seeing as reasonable job of upgrades.

Bridges and Underpasses, Pipeline from Kilington to Pico, Pico Pumphouse, believe they have invested in snowcats, 2 lodges (although I don't think they hit the right notes with the new KBL), K1 refurbishment, Snowdon 6, Move lift to South Ridge, North Ridge, i don't know exactly what pipes have been replaced but there have been some, new snow gun technology.

Would I like to see more? Sure of course. Have their upgrades been at an amazing rate? Maybe not.... but I don't think it is fair to say they have been sitting idly by in the past handful of years and I can see why they would have prioritized the lodges over some lifts.

in other words - I'd rate the upgrades as "reasonable" not "amazing" over the recent handful of years.

[easyrider16]

But 20+ years ago when Killington was doing 20k skier visits on a Saturday and parking cars down the roads at all lodges it was okay? Now they are doing less than that probably and it’s an Ikon problem?

Would you rather they cap visits at 5k a day? And loose money and you never get any upgrades?

There was more terrain 20+ years ago (Sunrise, Juggernaut, etc). You also have faster lifts now that put more people per minute on already crowded trails. So yeah, it's worse now even assuming the same amount of people.

But it's relative. Just before Ikon things were not as crowded as they are now on regular Saturdays. And you can tell it's Ikon because those Ikon blackout days are not as bad as other days. It used to be that MLK, Presidents, etc. were the zoo days. Now it's all the other days. It could be worse. Sugarbush has no blackout days. Talk to people who ski there regularly and they will tell you how much they really hate Ikon.

As for upgrades, Powdr continues to pour money into them. It's just that the current focus is not what most of us care about, because we care about the quality of the skiing. We want snowmaking and lift updates. But the average Killington customer probably cares more about lodges and food quality.

[Bubba]

Bubba , thinks he is the voice of reason, when in Reality he is two steps behind .

Voice of reason? On KZone that’s an impossible task. Actually, just trying to keep people from confusing which company is responsible for each project. If you’re going to complain it’s good to direct your complaints in the right direction.

[Mogulee]

I have heard that places like Breckenridge are now a cluster mess as someone I know was just there due to these passes.

Stratton must be a real goat rodeo with unlimited.

If Killington crew and corporate money can keep being put into Killington lift running and Gondola chairs not broken ( SkyeShip has so many broken chairs ) it will help. Corporate consolidation of previously locally run resorts is just the start in what we are seeing with how these passes are making the customer suffer imo.

[180]

This article does a good job reviewing all the players ans what my in store next.
https://skiology.com/editorial-alterra- ... -industry/

[SPORE]

I have heard that places like Breckenridge are now a cluster mess as someone I know was just there due to these passes.

Stratton must be a real goat rodeo with unlimited.

If Killington crew and corporate money can keep being put into Killington lift running and Gondola chairs not broken ( SkyeShip has so many broken chairs ) it will help. Corporate consolidation of previously locally run resorts is just the start in what we are seeing with how these passes are making the customer suffer imo.

Breckenridge, Vail, Killington, etc. are all the same, They're crowded if you don't know how the mountain flows.

I was in Summit / Eagle County last week and rode at Breck, Keystone, Copper and Vail - didn't wait in a liftline more than 2 to 3 minutes all week.

[daytripper]

I have heard that places like Breckenridge are now a cluster mess as someone I know was just there due to these passes.

Stratton must be a real goat rodeo with unlimited.

If Killington crew and corporate money can keep being put into Killington lift running and Gondola chairs not broken ( SkyeShip has so many broken chairs ) it will help. Corporate consolidation of previously locally run resorts is just the start in what we are seeing with how these passes are making the customer suffer imo.

Breckenridge, Vail, Killington, etc. are all the same, They're crowded if you don't know how the mountain flows.

I was in Summit / Eagle County last week and rode at Breck, Keystone, Copper and Vail - didn't wait in a liftline more than 2 to 3 minutes all week.

But what about the weekend? No places are crowded during the week.

[Low Rider]

I have heard that places like Breckenridge are now a cluster mess as someone I know was just there due to these passes.

Stratton must be a real goat rodeo with unlimited.

If Killington crew and corporate money can keep being put into Killington lift running and Gondola chairs not broken ( SkyeShip has so many broken chairs ) it will help. Corporate consolidation of previously locally run resorts is just the start in what we are seeing with how these passes are making the customer suffer imo.

Breckenridge, Vail, Killington, etc. are all the same, They're crowded if you don't know how the mountain flows.

I was in Summit / Eagle County last week and rode at Breck, Keystone, Copper and Vail - didn't wait in a liftline more than 2 to 3 minutes all week.

Killington certainly has a dynamic where 2/3 of the crowd seem to gravitate to 1/3 of the terrain and lifts. But that does not apply to the rest of the infrastructure (like parking).

[SPORE]

I have heard that places like Breckenridge are now a cluster mess as someone I know was just there due to these passes.

Stratton must be a real goat rodeo with unlimited.

If Killington crew and corporate money can keep being put into Killington lift running and Gondola chairs not broken ( SkyeShip has so many broken chairs ) it will help. Corporate consolidation of previously locally run resorts is just the start in what we are seeing with how these passes are making the customer suffer imo.

Breckenridge, Vail, Killington, etc. are all the same, They're crowded if you don't know how the mountain flows.

I was in Summit / Eagle County last week and rode at Breck, Keystone, Copper and Vail - didn't wait in a liftline more than 2 to 3 minutes all week.

But what about the weekend? No places are crowded during the week.

Its exactly the same on the Weekend - you can avoid the crowds at the correct lifts, just like you can on a Saturday at Killington.

[Mister Moose]

Corporate consolidation of previously locally run resorts is just the start in what we are seeing with how these passes are making the customer suffer imo.

Ski resorts in some respects may be on the path the airlines went. Deconstruct the product and charge more for all the extras. Now we have cheaper tickets and crowded flights with fees for everything and demand based pricing. Cheap passes and crowds do go together.