Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

[Southside_Bobby]

It does appear that this was a "fire people, pull passes, and ask questions later" situation.

however much folks wanna put "blame" on the mtn, they really had no choice but but to fire the instructor. whether or not she was "led" out of bounds by a bunch of five year olds, what parent in their right mind would trust their children w this particular instructor or any instructor at k for that matter moving forward. so they took swift, decisive action as was appropriate. scapegoat maybe, but no way could they just sweep it under the carpet. btw this wasn't some rookie instructor, she had worked for the resort 6 years.

It doesn't sound like you think that is what happened. What do you think happened? What do you think she did wrong?

[skiadikt]

It does appear that this was a "fire people, pull passes, and ask questions later" situation.

however much folks wanna put "blame" on the mtn, they really had no choice but but to fire the instructor. whether or not she was "led" out of bounds by a bunch of five year olds, what parent in their right mind would trust their children w this particular instructor or any instructor at k for that matter moving forward. so they took swift, decisive action as was appropriate. scapegoat maybe, but no way could they just sweep it under the carpet. btw this wasn't some rookie instructor, she had worked for the resort 6 years.

It doesn't sound like you think that is what happened. What do you think happened? What do you think she did wrong?

the point is an instructor and the 5 yr olds she was responsible for, shouldn't have to be rescued miles from the resort on the coldest day of the season in what was a dangerous situation and could have turned disasterous. don't know whether she made a wrong turn but she did have 6 years of experience so she should known "better". some have suggested she was "led" by the kids but at the end of the day, the reason whatever it is, doesn't matter. she IS responsible and that absolutely CANNOT happen. what's the mtn supposed to say - "oh she made a mistake. we kept her on but gave her a good talking to. won't happen again". she HAD to be let go.

[skidogg]

If a ski instructor can't chase down a 5 year old, then they don't have the skills necessary to protect their students on the hill. We're not talking grampa versus his grandkids here...

And when the did catch the kids, turn their asses around and start them booting back up where the came from . . I'm sure these kids hadn't dropped more than one or two hundred feet vert before they stopped originally.

Sure - but hindsight is 20/20 of course, maybe the instructor thought it was leading them back to Killink. Maybe they tried but the child was unable to hike up. Or maybe the kid dropped much further in than that - you say you are sure they only dropped 100' but in reality, we are not sure.

I think you're underestimating the difficulty of post-holing 100 feet uphill, especially for a 5 year old. I walked OOB about 30' in that area yesterday and sank in up to my knees.

toughen up buttercup

[Southside_Bobby]

It does appear that this was a "fire people, pull passes, and ask questions later" situation.

however much folks wanna put "blame" on the mtn, they really had no choice but but to fire the instructor. whether or not she was "led" out of bounds by a bunch of five year olds, what parent in their right mind would trust their children w this particular instructor or any instructor at k for that matter moving forward. so they took swift, decisive action as was appropriate. scapegoat maybe, but no way could they just sweep it under the carpet. btw this wasn't some rookie instructor, she had worked for the resort 6 years.

It doesn't sound like you think that is what happened. What do you think happened? What do you think she did wrong?

the point is an instructor and the 5 yr olds she was responsible for, shouldn't have to be rescued miles from the resort on the coldest day of the season in what was a dangerous situation and could have turned disasterous. don't know whether she made a wrong turn but she did have 6 years of experience so she should known "better". some have suggested she was "led" by the kids but at the end of the day, the reason whatever it is, doesn't matter. she IS responsible and that absolutely CANNOT happen. what's the mtn supposed to say - "oh she made a mistake. we kept her on but gave her a good talking to. won't happen again". she HAD to be let go.

There you go again.

I got your point. But I also think what actually happened does matter.

[skiadikt]

It does appear that this was a "fire people, pull passes, and ask questions later" situation.

however much folks wanna put "blame" on the mtn, they really had no choice but but to fire the instructor. whether or not she was "led" out of bounds by a bunch of five year olds, what parent in their right mind would trust their children w this particular instructor or any instructor at k for that matter moving forward. so they took swift, decisive action as was appropriate. scapegoat maybe, but no way could they just sweep it under the carpet. btw this wasn't some rookie instructor, she had worked for the resort 6 years.

It doesn't sound like you think that is what happened. What do you think happened? What do you think she did wrong?

the point is an instructor and the 5 yr olds she was responsible for, shouldn't have to be rescued miles from the resort on the coldest day of the season in what was a dangerous situation and could have turned disasterous. don't know whether she made a wrong turn but she did have 6 years of experience so she should known "better". some have suggested she was "led" by the kids but at the end of the day, the reason whatever it is, doesn't matter. she IS responsible and that absolutely CANNOT happen. what's the mtn supposed to say - "oh she made a mistake. we kept her on but gave her a good talking to. won't happen again". she HAD to be let go.

There you go again.

I got your point. But I also think what actually happened does matter.

there "I" go again. reagan & carter, hmm ok ...

so what circumstance do you think would make it "ok" for an instructor responsible for a couple of 5 yr olds to need to be rescued miles from the resort.

[Southside_Bobby]

however much folks wanna put "blame" on the mtn, they really had no choice but but to fire the instructor. whether or not she was "led" out of bounds by a bunch of five year olds, what parent in their right mind would trust their children w this particular instructor or any instructor at k for that matter moving forward. so they took swift, decisive action as was appropriate. scapegoat maybe, but no way could they just sweep it under the carpet. btw this wasn't some rookie instructor, she had worked for the resort 6 years.

It doesn't sound like you think that is what happened. What do you think happened? What do you think she did wrong?

the point is an instructor and the 5 yr olds she was responsible for, shouldn't have to be rescued miles from the resort on the coldest day of the season in what was a dangerous situation and could have turned disasterous. don't know whether she made a wrong turn but she did have 6 years of experience so she should known "better". some have suggested she was "led" by the kids but at the end of the day, the reason whatever it is, doesn't matter. she IS responsible and that absolutely CANNOT happen. what's the mtn supposed to say - "oh she made a mistake. we kept her on but gave her a good talking to. won't happen again". she HAD to be let go.

There you go again.

I got your point. But I also think what actually happened does matter.

there "I" go again. reagan & carter, hmm ok ...

so what circumstance do you think would make it "ok" for an instructor responsible for a couple of 5 yr olds to need to be rescued miles from the resort.

If we were talking in person, I would have given my best sounding impression.

Again, I get that you feel it doesn't matter what happened. But do you really not have an opinion about what happened?

[twilkas]

" Southside Bobby - Again, I get that you feel it doesn't matter what happened. But do you really not have an opinion about what happened?"

Not speaking for SA, yet he's around the mountain quite a bit and likely *may* have closer knowledge of what the real story is. as someone else pointed out, managing a group of 5 year olds isn't easy. they can jump out ahead, with cat herding not quite working out. initially it was a 1st year employee, now it's a 6 year vet? just seems parts of this story missing. i' feel bad for the instructor.

[ski]

If a ski instructor can't chase down a 5 year old, then they don't have the skills necessary to protect their students on the hill. We're not talking grampa versus his grandkids here...

And when the did catch the kids, turn their asses around and start them booting back up where the came from . . I'm sure these kids hadn't dropped more than one or two hundred feet vert before they stopped originally.

Sure - but hindsight is 20/20 of course, maybe the instructor thought it was leading them back to Killink. Maybe they tried but the child was unable to hike up. Or maybe the kid dropped much further in than that - you say you are sure they only dropped 100' but in reality, we are not sure.

I think you're underestimating the difficulty of post-holing 100 feet uphill, especially for a 5 year old. I walked OOB about 30' in that area yesterday and sank in up to my knees.

Way easier than the alternative . . .

[rogman]

I believe Killington misstated some facts about how well the boundary is marked. They have certainly improved the signage and ropes since the incident. It is my opinion that HR panicked due to the press coverage, and rather than suspend the employee while investigating, summarily fired her. The 6 years instructing at K is not new information, btw. She almost certainly knew about Wheelerville Road and determined that was the best option. Now perhaps during the trek she ran into others that were stranded and realized the situation was not limited to her and her charges but others as well, and chose to stay with the group out of concern for the overall group. Not a good look if she abandoned them, particularly if the 911 had already been phone in. Certainly one big group was better than multiple groups. Perhaps she and the two kids would have made it to out without rescue left to their own devices. Seems possible that Killington used her to take the fall in order to satiate the press and win the news cycle. “Rogue employee fired” end of story.

[jerm]

I believe Killington misstated some facts about how well the boundary is marked. They have certainly improved the signage and ropes since the incident. It is my opinion that HR panicked due to the press coverage, and rather than suspend the employee while investigating, summarily fired her. The 6 years instructing at K is not new information, btw. She almost certainly knew about Wheelerville Road and determined that was the best option. Now perhaps during the trek she ran into others that were stranded and realized the situation was not limited to her and her charges but others as well, and chose to stay with the group out of concern for the overall group. Not a good look if she abandoned them, particularly if the 911 had already been phone in. Certainly one big group was better than multiple groups. Perhaps she and the two kids would have made it to out without rescue left to their own devices. Seems possible that Killington used her to take the fall in order to satiate the press and win the news cycle. “Rogue employee fired” end of story.

The whole thing was an exercise in sensationalism. According to at least one in the group, they had found the trail out while in communication with 911 (same as with group previous day), and SAR was only sent in due to the size of the group and the kids. Yeah it's a long flat trail out once you are on it, and would absolutely suck on a snowboard, but you can ski/skate sections and it's generally well travelled by snowshoers and BC skiers. Keep moving and you're gonna be fine.

My point in dredging this thread back up was that the initial attraction that routed these people back there doesn't sound to be the typical Cooper Lodge access point, but something lower down toward Snowdon formed by uphillers continuing from near the top of the designated Rams Head / Snowdon route. Returning from a tour on Monday, my son and I saw a ton of snowshoe/ski tracks coming up the AT/LT where Bucklin intersected. Seemed like a lot to be coming all the way from Sherburne Pass, and none continued south of the peak so they were all headed to Coopers or the Peak. Didn''t have time to check down toward Snowdon but I suspect they were coming from where a summertime hiking route in the resort gets within a stones throw of the AT/LT in the K/Snowdon saddle. Is there signage there now?

[Pedro]

I believe Killington misstated some facts about how well the boundary is marked. They have certainly improved the signage and ropes since the incident. It is my opinion that HR panicked due to the press coverage, and rather than suspend the employee while investigating, summarily fired her. The 6 years instructing at K is not new information, btw. She almost certainly knew about Wheelerville Road and determined that was the best option. Now perhaps during the trek she ran into others that were stranded and realized the situation was not limited to her and her charges but others as well, and chose to stay with the group out of concern for the overall group. Not a good look if she abandoned them, particularly if the 911 had already been phone in. Certainly one big group was better than multiple groups. Perhaps she and the two kids would have made it to out without rescue left to their own devices. Seems possible that Killington used her to take the fall in order to satiate the press and win the news cycle. “Rogue employee fired” end of story.

If it was five people that got lost in the backcountry, we could say they were morons.

It was twenty three. Killington Leadership needs to be held accountable.

[ejrides]

If a ski instructor can't chase down a 5 year old, then they don't have the skills necessary to protect their students on the hill. We're not talking grampa versus his grandkids here...

And when the did catch the kids, turn their asses around and start them booting back up where the came from . . I'm sure these kids hadn't dropped more than one or two hundred feet vert before they stopped originally.

Sure - but hindsight is 20/20 of course, maybe the instructor thought it was leading them back to Killink. Maybe they tried but the child was unable to hike up. Or maybe the kid dropped much further in than that - you say you are sure they only dropped 100' but in reality, we are not sure.

I think you're underestimating the difficulty of post-holing 100 feet uphill, especially for a 5 year old. I walked OOB about 30' in that area yesterday and sank in up to my knees.

Way easier than the alternative . . .

Not from where she was. Ski Patrol is very good at handling lost skiers in this area; sometimes they will direct skiers to hike back up but mostly the better solution is down the Bucklin.

[ski]

And when the did catch the kids, turn their asses around and start them booting back up where the came from . . I'm sure these kids hadn't dropped more than one or two hundred feet vert before they stopped originally.

Sure - but hindsight is 20/20 of course, maybe the instructor thought it was leading them back to Killink. Maybe they tried but the child was unable to hike up. Or maybe the kid dropped much further in than that - you say you are sure they only dropped 100' but in reality, we are not sure.

I think you're underestimating the difficulty of post-holing 100 feet uphill, especially for a 5 year old. I walked OOB about 30' in that area yesterday and sank in up to my knees.

Way easier than the alternative . . .

Not from where she was. Ski Patrol is very good at handling lost skiers in this area; sometimes they will direct skiers to hike back up but mostly the better solution is down the Bucklin.

Still not believing the 5yo kid went that far down . . Calling BS on that . . Ski coach made more than one bad decision that day . . Def grounds for firing . .

[daytripper]

You get lost with a bunch of kids you get fired. K did the right thing.

[Pedro]

You get lost with a bunch of kids you get fired. K did the right thing.

Who do we fire for the other 20 People getting Lost int the woods? Mike Solimano? Seems to be a much larger problem then a dopey instructor.