Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

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asher2789
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Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by asher2789 »

this is in regards to that recent backcountry rescue of the 20+ skiers/riders.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/01/30/ ... st-skiers/ (parts in bold emphasized by me)
As they walked through the wooded area crisscrossed with skiers’ trails, the trio soon realized they weren’t the only people lost on the mountain. First they ran into a couple, then a larger group, then others who had also wandered off the marked trails at the 1,500-acre resort. The group included a half-dozen members of a high school ski club and one of the resort’s ski instructors, who was with two students, both about 5 years old.

By that night, after a five-hour, multi-agency rescue effort conducted during below-freezing temperatures, Campanella, 22, along with 19 other resort guests and the ski instructor, were found and brought to safety. More than a dozen team members hiked, snowshoed, and skied uphill for about 5 miles in the frigid weather to reach the lost skiers and snowboarders, police said. No one was injured.

Days later the question remains: How did so many skiers get lost in the woods on a snowy evening?

Backcountry skiing — leaving marked trails for pristine slopes in the wilderness — is growing in popularity in the Northeast as winters shorten and climate change makes snow quality less predictable.

But Campanella said none of the skiers or snowboarders he spoke with left the property on purpose.

“They make it seem like we intentionally ducked some ropes and ignored some signs . . . but that’s not at all what happened with us, at least,” he said. “I can’t speak for everyone, but for us, I never saw signs, never saw a rope or anything.”

The Killington resort is known as “The Beast of the East” because of its size and diverse terrain, which includes steep mogul runs, according to the skiing website On the Snow. It has seven mountain areas, including Killington Peak, the second-highest point in Vermont, at 4,241 feet, and has the biggest vertical drop in New England, at 3,050 feet, according to the resort.

An unlimited winter access pass at Killington can go for more than $1,600, while a year-round Beast 365 pass can cost more than $1,900.

It was about 2:30 p.m. when Killington police launched the recovery effort.

Authorities soon grew more alarmed as they realized how large the number of lost skiers had grown. As the sun dipped below the horizon and darkness set in that early evening, the temperatures dropped even lower, according to the National Weather Service office in Burlington, Vt.

Law enforcement officials and rescue leaders declined to discuss the search effort.
More than 20 skiers needed to be rescued from Killington after getting lost.

“A special thanks should be given to all the volunteers who responded and worked this call,” the police department said in a Facebook post after the effort.

Killington police chief Whit Montgomery told the Rutland Herald the search was fairly manageable, but the weather required a quick response.

“One of the ways it becomes so dangerous is you get in there on fresh snow, it can be deep, it can be up to your waist or higher, with ski boots on or snow boots on … you start to sweat, you get wet, the temperatures drop more, hypothermia can set it; it gets pretty dangerous pretty quickly,” he said.

Kristel Killary, a spokesperson for Killington Ski Resort, said “several groups of skiers and riders,” had gone under a rope and left the resort’s perimeter on Saturday, “in violation of Killington’s policy.”

“Two of the skiers were minors and under the care of a ski instructor and that instructor was immediately terminated,” Killary said in an email. She said this was the instructor’s first season working at the resort.

The resort is working with Killington Search and Rescue to identify the guests who were among those lost on that Saturday so that it can revoke their ski passes, she said.

Before they got lost, Campanella said he and his friends were making the most of their day on the slopes, jumping in and out of woods and marked trails. They’d snowboarded down from Killington Peak on the Great Northern Trail and were somewhere near the junction with Killington Trail [this is an error, should be Killink] when they realized they were lost.

They soon learned they weren’t alone.

It was about 2 p.m., Campanella said in an interview Wednesday. Within 5 to 10 minutes, they encountered another couple who were lost. Then four more people came hiking up the trail.

“About 20 minutes after that, we ran into another nine people,” he said.

Campanella said he thought he and his friends could have gotten out of the woods on their own, but there was concern about getting the two young children and the teenagers to safety quickly. That’s when members of the group called 911 for help.

Campanella said he was surprised to see that the ski instructor was also lost.

“I was a little confused, but it kind of made me feel like it must not be that hard to end up on the wrong side and accidentally go down somewhere you’re not supposed to, because she didn’t intend to, and I don’t think she was purposely ducking ropes and not listening to signs,” Campanella said.

Dave Coppock, a member of Rescue Inc., a rural emergency medical service based in Brattleboro, Vt., happened to be in Killington cross-country skiing with his wife, Clare Coppock, when the call for help went out.

He received an emergency alert from Rescue Inc. on his cellphone while he was about 1 1/2 to 2 miles from the lost group, he said. He and four other members of the service responded, he said.

Aware that the day’s ideal conditions on the mountain could lead to lost skiers, Coppock was carrying a roughly 25-pound “ready pack” containing headlamps, a GPS device, maps, a compass, food and water, extra layers of clothing, a first aid kit, and other emergency supplies, he said.

Coppock, 68, who has been skiing Killington since the 1980s, made his way to the spot at the bottom of a ravine near the Bucklin trailhead where rescuers believed the lost people would emerge, and within a few moments of his arrival, the 18 lost skiers and snowboarders began to walk out of the woods one by one, he said.

“They were skiing in more or less the same area and kind of converged on one spot, which is a gully,” Coppock said. “It’s a brook that forms . . . almost a steep canyon, and the snow in there gets very deep.”

Coppock and his wife, Clare, helped everyone across the creek, then offered them water and food before the hike out.

Coppock said it is “unprecedented to rescue that many people at one time,” but skiers leave the designated area at Killington “all the time,” leading to many rescues, and many others who find their way out with help from the ski patrol or on their own.

“It looks like part of the ski area; it looks like they’re just going off the trail,” he said. “They see tracks . . . they think that, ‘OK, I’ll ski into the woods, but I know that if there’s tracks back there, it must mean that it’s going to lead me to the bottom of another chair lift.’”

Coppock said it’s nearly impossible for the resort to keep all ski areas clearly marked because wind, snow, and wildlife will knock lines over or cover them up.

“I absolutely don’t blame the resort on this,” he said.

As they descended the trail, the Coppocks and the lost skiers were joined by members of the Killington Search and Rescue team, he said. By 7:30 p.m., everyone was accounted for.

Molly Mahar, president of Ski Vermont, said the search and rescue fell during National Skiing Safety Awareness Month and highlighted the danger of leaving marked recreational areas.

“This situation provides an opportunity to remind skiers and riders to stay inbounds unless they have planned for a safe backcountry experience, which includes proper training, clothing, equipment, knowledge, and weather assessment,” Mahar said in a statement.

“Backcountry skiing is very different than skiing inbounds, and a minor mishap can quickly turn serious or even fatal,” the statement continued. “Skiers should not venture into terrain that is unknown to them without a knowledgeable guide and proper planning. If skiers require rescue, they put their rescuers’ safety at risk, too.”

Others said they too have gotten lost while skiing at Killington.

One day before the massive rescue effort, Darcy Morris, a 30-year-old musician and mother of three who lives in central Virginia, said she became disoriented while skiing Killington for her birthday.

She had been skiing the North Ridge with her husband, brother-in-law, and her husband’s two best friends when they realized the tracks they’d followed had led them astray, she said.

Morris and her group called the resort, and with guidance over the phone from its ski patrol and police, they were able to walk out of the woods on their own, she said.

“We didn’t cross under any boundary that we could recognize,” Morris said. “You know, I’ll celebrate my 30th trying to just have some fun — I’m not looking for extreme rebellion or adventure or anything like that. So to accidentally do that was like, ‘Oh, man, what did I do?’”
---

it really looks like - based on the quotes in this article at least from some of the people rescued - that the mountain is doing damage control by defaming people and straight up lying about what they did. there's an unmarked and frankly unappealing skinny 'trail' that's off the skiers left side of great northern above the flats but below ridge run that connects to the top of snowdon that mainly some teleskiers in the know use as a shortcut to get from k1 to the top of snowdon without using a lift. its completely flat, not possible on a snowboard. at least some of the people who got rescued used that 'trail' and then went astray. but whats important to note is that it - to my memory - has never been marked as a boundary. the way to coops and past it is well marked as being a boundary, theres a rope, a sign, another sign once you get to coops, and the orange tape. the people who claim they never saw signs or ducked a rope didn't leave from behind coops which is what the mountain is trying to insinuate by defaming them claiming they were ducking ropes. rather than take responsibility for not marking boundaries, they blame the individuals and turn public opinion (just look at facebook locals posts about this for an example) against them.

what bothers me about this is its an infringement of our right to access public land (responsibly) that belongs to all of us. it is obviously a violation to go on a closed trail to get to public land, but if ridge run is open (or any other boundary trail that one uses to get to/from back/side country), they cant be pulling passes for going to coops, or going anywhere for that matter. our trail maps state quite clearly that it is at your own risk and not patrolled or maintained. it does not state that its a violation of mountain policy, because it can't be a violation of mountain policy. WE own that land, not killington. killington only has a lease to control operations within their bounds, not outside of them.

i think the real story here is how badly killington is dropping the ball this season with so many seasoned veterans quitting patrol (and ski school!) and moving on to better opportunities elsewhere. the ski instructor was new to the mountain....
daytripper
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by daytripper »

This may be the first time I have ever agreed with Asher!
asher2789
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by asher2789 »

daytripper wrote: Jan 31st, '24, 09:25 This may be the first time I have ever agreed with Asher!
do you like powder? i like powder! another agreement! world peace!
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by daytripper »

asher2789 wrote: Jan 31st, '24, 09:27
daytripper wrote: Jan 31st, '24, 09:25 This may be the first time I have ever agreed with Asher!
do you like powder? i like powder! another agreement! world peace!
:like
snoloco
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by snoloco »

It's all public land, but the resort has no obligation to let you access it through their permit area. Many resorts have designated gates where you can access the backcountry, but they aren't required to do so. If these people ducked ropes, then they deserve to lose their passes. They put themselves and everyone else in danger who had to come rescue them. It's the exact thing that they should be pulling passes for. It's also against state law to duck ropes. That being said, if the boundary wasn't clearly marked with a rope line, then they shouldn't have their passes pulled.
jimmywilson69
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by jimmywilson69 »

There was definitely a rope out at Coops the last time i was out there in the winter and It was also there in the summer when I hiked the Vermont section of the AT.
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Roundtop: 12/22,12/23, 1/8, 1/13, 1/14, 1/17 LR, 1/18 LR, 1/19, 1/20, 1/21, 1//22 LR, 1/23 LR, 1/26, 1/29 LR, 2/2 LR, 2/3, 2/4, 2/7 LR, 2/8, 2/9, 2/10, 2/11, 2/15, 2/16 LR, 2/17, 2/18, 2/19 LR, 2/21 LR, 3/8 LR, 3/9, 3/10

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easyrider16
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by easyrider16 »

I think these folks are culpable to some degree. You don't go off into the woods unless you know what you're doing. On the other hand, I don't think it's the resort's business to discipline these people.Once they leave the resort, they cease to be the resort's responsibility. But they did something dumb requiring a rescue, and they should be held responsible there - pay a fine or pay for the rescue.
random1
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by random1 »

If you go over to that little woods trail on skier's right of killink, you can just veer off to the right and wind up going down to Brewers, right? I haven't looked over there, but I'm pretty sure there's no ropes or signs there. If I had to guess, that's where I think people veer off by mistake. Coopers is really pretty well marked.
Eddytheyetti
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by Eddytheyetti »

random1 wrote:If you go over to that little woods trail on skier's right of killink, you can just veer off to the right and wind up going down to Brewers, right? I haven't looked over there, but I'm pretty sure there's no ropes or signs there. If I had to guess, that's where I think people veer off by mistake. Coopers is really pretty well marked.
Seems much more likely that a ski instructor was in there with 5 year olds than out at coops. My guess is went a little too far and tried to traverse back in, which doesn’t work from there.


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spanky
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

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random1 wrote:If you go over to that little woods trail on skier's right of killink, you can just veer off to the right and wind up going down to Brewers, right? I haven't looked over there, but I'm pretty sure there's no ropes or signs there. If I had to guess, that's where I think people veer off by mistake. Coopers is really pretty well marked.
Skier’s right? I’m confused.
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Killington_Lover
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by Killington_Lover »

spanky wrote: Jan 31st, '24, 19:49
random1 wrote:If you go over to that little woods trail on skier's right of killink, you can just veer off to the right and wind up going down to Brewers, right? I haven't looked over there, but I'm pretty sure there's no ropes or signs there. If I had to guess, that's where I think people veer off by mistake. Coopers is really pretty well marked.
Skier’s right? I’m confused.
Get off the Snowden triple, go left. Take a look at the woods to your right. I didn’t know people went back there other than to see a man about a horse.

Or

Go down GN, where west glade ends. Take a left.
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by Captain Hafski »

random1 wrote: Jan 31st, '24, 16:19 If you go over to that little woods trail on skier's right of killink, you can just veer off to the right and wind up going down to Brewers, right? I haven't looked over there, but I'm pretty sure there's no ropes or signs there. If I had to guess, that's where I think people veer off by mistake. Coopers is really pretty well marked.
Not 100% sure, but I've been in that "powerline" skiers right of Killink and believe you would have to hike "up" to get over the ridge.
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CRR321
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by CRR321 »

random1 wrote: Jan 31st, '24, 16:19 If you go over to that little woods trail on skier's right of killink, you can just veer off to the right and wind up going down to Brewers, right? I haven't looked over there, but I'm pretty sure there's no ropes or signs there. If I had to guess, that's where I think people veer off by mistake. Coopers is really pretty well marked.

The woods are really dense back there, and there is some orange mesh ropes in the more open areas.
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by spanky »

Killington_Lover wrote: Jan 31st, '24, 19:55
spanky wrote: Jan 31st, '24, 19:49
random1 wrote:If you go over to that little woods trail on skier's right of killink, you can just veer off to the right and wind up going down to Brewers, right? I haven't looked over there, but I'm pretty sure there's no ropes or signs there. If I had to guess, that's where I think people veer off by mistake. Coopers is really pretty well marked.
Skier’s right? I’m confused.
Get off the Snowden triple, go left. Take a look at the woods to your right. I didn’t know people went back there other than to see a man about a horse.

Or

Go down GN, where west glade ends. Take a left.
Ah! I was thinking the skiers were coming from North Ridge. Now I see it.

TYVM.
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ski
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Re: Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

Post by ski »

asher2789 wrote: Jan 31st, '24, 09:07

there's an unmarked and frankly unappealing skinny 'trail' that's off the skiers left side of great northern above the flats but below ridge run that connects to the top of snowdon that mainly some teleskiers in the know use as a shortcut to get from k1 to the top of snowdon without using a lift. its completely flat, not possible on a snowboard. at least some of the people who got rescued used that 'trail' and then went astray. but whats important to note is that it - to my memory - has never been marked as a boundary.
There is a rope back in those woods too
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