Access to PUBLIC LAND is now a violation?!

[Skid Mark]

Talked to someone who knew the instructor that was terminated. The five year olds she was in charge of raced ahead and ducked into the trees. She chased after them but by the time she caught up with them it was too late. She ended up carrying one of them two miles out. The parents were extremely grateful.

Four does the same thing, and he is very hard to catch. I’m most sympathetic; woman got sacked. In my mind, she was a hero.

So it sounds as if this is at least partially on Killington for poor markings.

Interesting that the groups all went in separately.

Too bad the media etc made the skiers out to be the bad guys.

[Skid Mark]

Talked to someone who knew the instructor that was terminated. The five year olds she was in charge of raced ahead and ducked into the trees. She chased after them but by the time she caught up with them it was too late. She ended up carrying one of them two miles out. The parents were extremely grateful.

Four does the same thing, and he is very hard to catch. I’m most sympathetic; woman got sacked. In my mind, she was a hero.

So it sounds as if this is at least partially on Killington for poor markings.

Interesting that the groups all went in separately.

Too bad the media etc made the skiers out to be the bad guys.

Bad? Probably not. Stupid? Most definitely.

Experienced back country skiers have been skiing the back side for years and will continue to do so. If you are dumb enough to follow tracks going the opposite direction of the ski area, you deserve the consequences. FAFO.

[jimmywilson69]

unfortunately the instructor was always going to be a sacrificial lamb and while maybe she didn't intend for this to happen, someone had to be made an example of. I hope the season pass holders were just given a stern warning about the dangers back there. It seems extreme to pull passes for something like this, when its not clear that you could lose your pass for doing it.

I agree young kids are hard to catch in the woods, especially if they know how to ski. When my son was 9, he got out of site quickly in Squeeze Play the first time he was in the woods. When I caught him, I explained that he needed to say in view in case he got hurt or ventured the wrong way.

[Low Rider]

Talked to someone who knew the instructor that was terminated. The five year olds she was in charge of raced ahead and ducked into the trees. She chased after them but by the time she caught up with them it was too late. She ended up carrying one of them two miles out. The parents were extremely grateful.

Four does the same thing, and he is very hard to catch. I’m most sympathetic; woman got sacked. In my mind, she was a hero.

So it sounds as if this is at least partially on Killington for poor markings.

Interesting that the groups all went in separately.

Too bad the media etc made the skiers out to be the bad guys.

Bad? Probably not. Stupid? Most definitely.

Experienced back country skiers have been skiing the back side for years and will continue to do so. If you are dumb enough to follow tracks going the opposite direction of the ski area, you deserve the consequences. FAFO.

Sure - but they may not have known it was the opposite direction. Not wise obviously, but if there was not any signage, I'd give the resort probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the blame pie on this one.

[hillbangin]

We were just out west in Aspen - I noticed that they had rope everywhere - must be miles and miles and miles of rope. Not just cliff outs - everywhere.

Ever notice where there's no rope at Killington - Right of Devils Den - Left or Rams head - Left of Falls Brook - etc etc.

Pico is full of un roped wrong turns. No rope anywhere.

If you know the hill it does not matter - NO excuse for the instructor.

But if you don't know the hill lots of wrong turns.

Heading up tomorrow - I wonder if the put a rope up next to the Klink power line................

[easyrider16]

Out west is such a different animal. We recently went out with a very experienced Killington skier who regularly skies out of bounds on his home turf. When he was out west, he saw a backcountry gate with sweet pow on the other side and immediately wanted to jump in. We had to tell him to look more closely at the sign - considerable avalanche danger, beacon, shovel, probe required - none of which we had. Also turns out that gate led to an area that requires a substantial hike through deep snow to get back to the resort. We had to explain the danger to him and how it's different when there's avalanche issues to deal with.

If you've never had any avalanche training, it's pretty easy to look at a closed area out west and think, there's no reason that should be closed. But out west closed means closed because the consequences are much higher than a hike out to a back road and public shaming. That's a different beast than people at K who are used to ducking ropes any time the snow looks good enough.

[jerm]

Bad? Probably not. Stupid? Most definitely.

Experienced back country skiers have been skiing the back side for years and will continue to do so. If you are dumb enough to follow tracks going the opposite direction of the ski area, you deserve the consequences. FAFO.

As one of those backcountry skiers, I would like to see access from the resort preserved and sources of the problem acknowledged, addressed, and corrected as best they can be while maintaining open access. A signed gate, if that is what is now atop Snowdon, is a start. If there indeed was a track (which would have been downhill to start, enough to get a resort skier into trouble) that was very likely there because of uphill safety choices the resort made in routing to Snowdon. As with many operational choices, unintended consequences can arise when the full context is not taken into account. If a non-skier, or even non-uphill skier, made the choice to terminate that uphill route atop Snowdon, it would not have been intuitive to them where those skiers would choose to go next. That is a simple mistake, as was the choice of the BC skier that laid the initial track down, and the choices of resort skiers that eventually followed (most of whom haven't the foggiest clue where they are or where they are going and rely on the resort to keep them safe, it's what they pay for). It is unhelpful to place all the blame on the people that got lost because it will happen again without changes, and if the end result next time is a death that would be terrible. We could also see the resort and authorities react with closed boundaries and legislation that makes crossing them a crime (which nearly happened following previous incidents at Killington). That would be a shame as it limits our access to public lands and reduces the chance that a legit BC skier is out there to help direct rescuers and help out (which happens, 10 years or so ago a friend of mine came upon abandoned skis and postholes deep in another drainage, and helped direct rescue crews to where to find the missing teens).

[boston_e]

If you know the hill it does not matter - NO excuse for the instructor.

Well - if the story of the kids skiing ahead and not following direction is true - what was the instructor to do? Just let them ski away?

And if it was a new instructor, she/he might not have known the mountain all that well.

[wtf021]

Some new 4’ high netting blocking the trail to Coops at the top of West Glade/Ridge Run. Wasn’t there the other day.

[twilkas]

Some new 4’ high netting blocking the trail to Coops at the top of West Glade/Ridge Run. Wasn’t there the other day.

And that new netting probably long overdue. the more experienced will know what to do, even it involves some effort.

[Pedro]

Talked to someone who knew the instructor that was terminated. The five year olds she was in charge of raced ahead and ducked into the trees. She chased after them but by the time she caught up with them it was too late. She ended up carrying one of them two miles out. The parents were extremely grateful.

Four does the same thing, and he is very hard to catch. I’m most sympathetic; woman got sacked. In my mind, she was a hero.

That is too bad; I know the parents of one of the little ones; it probably could have happened to anyone. Killington can't have parents worrying that their little ones will die in the forest, so termination is perhaps the only option.

That being said, Are the instructors trained for these scenarios?

What is Killington's SOP for a rouge five-year-old looking for some freshies?

Do the instructors know which way north is? Can they point to different peaks from Killington Peak?

[Low Rider]

it really looks like - based on the quotes in this article at least from some of the people rescued - that the mountain is doing damage control by defaming people and straight up lying about what they did.

It sure seems that way.

[Pedro]

meanwhile OB Death at Stowe:
https://www.wcax.com/2024/02/21/out-of- ... ies-stowe/

[easyrider16]

Talked to someone who knew the instructor that was terminated. The five year olds she was in charge of raced ahead and ducked into the trees. She chased after them but by the time she caught up with them it was too late. She ended up carrying one of them two miles out. The parents were extremely grateful.

Four does the same thing, and he is very hard to catch. I’m most sympathetic; woman got sacked. In my mind, she was a hero.

That is too bad; I know the parents of one of the little ones; it probably could have happened to anyone. Killington can't have parents worrying that their little ones will die in the forest, so termination is perhaps the only option.

If you are entrusted with the responsibility to care for a bunch of kids, and then you allow them to venture off the designated property into a dangerous area, I think it's pretty hard to argue that you did everything right. Maybe the ski patroller did what she could to mitigate the disaster, but frankly that's expected. What is also expected is that you will keep the kids you are responsible for from venturing into dangerous, off-resort territory.

To be honest, it seems like a common theme with Killington ski school instructors. On more than one occasion I've seen instructors do things that make me question their judgment - like leading kids in wide S turns down one of the most crowded trails on a busy Saturday, or allowing their kids to sit and stand in a big group blocking a high-traffic connector trail. Do they tell these kids that they should never go where they don't know? Or do they lead them down unmarked woods trails because it's cool? Because I've seen the latter happen, too, and I can't help but think that sort of thing contributed to this mess.

[rogman]

You can certainly tell who in this thread has no idea what it’s like dealing with pre-schoolers. “You just tell them what to do and they do it”. Hah! They’re little terrorists that know the pressure points, and are impossible to negotiate with. Four is a little powder hound, loves little trails off into the woods, is quicker than a rabbit, has no idea of consequences, and doesn’t care if even if it’s explained in gory detail. And they can be very good skiers by five years old. Two of them? The instructor was way outnumbered.