Is Killington for sale?

[Skivt2]

Is Powdr a take over target? I hope not.

[newpylong1]

In that ballpark.

Towers minimum maybe haulrope and motors can stay.
Replace cabins, drives and controls, detach machinery, stage interlock machinery, in essence new terminals.

[easyrider16]

killington's one of powdr's cash cows. would doubt they'd sell it especially w the long awaited village apparently becoming a reality unless they have some debt payments due and desperately need the money.

Been saying this for a long time. I know it's a capital-intensive business, but with the traffic they get, and the amount of overpriced concessions they sell, they have to be generating a ton of revenue. Add in the summer business which is actually turning a profit now with MTB, etc.

My guess would be the reason you're not seeing more infrastructure investment right now is they are preparing to invest in the village (new lodges, parking lot changes, etc). I would guess that spending would delay any major lift upgrades until after it's completed.

[ozzy]

killington's one of powdr's cash cows. would doubt they'd sell it especially w the long awaited village apparently becoming a reality unless they have some debt payments due and desperately need the money.

Been saying this for a long time. I know it's a capital-intensive business, but with the traffic they get, and the amount of overpriced concessions they sell, they have to be generating a ton of revenue. Add in the summer business which is actually turning a profit now with MTB, etc.

My guess would be the reason you're not seeing more infrastructure investment right now is they are preparing to invest in the village (new lodges, parking lot changes, etc). I would guess that spending would delay any major lift upgrades until after it's completed.

Or at least begun and lift/snowmaking infrastructure changes planned.
Are they going to hook people with a $2+M 2BR, 2.5BA village condo with the current infrastructure? I wish I knew.

[Mister Moose]

Towers minimum maybe haul rope and motors can stay.
Replace cabins, drives and controls, detach machinery, stage interlock machinery, in essence new terminals.

And how about some new siding on the gondola barn.

[Southside_Bobby]

killington's one of powdr's cash cows. would doubt they'd sell it especially w the long awaited village apparently becoming a reality unless they have some debt payments due and desperately need the money.

IMO, the term hits the nail on the head regarding what I think has happened to Killington.

Cash cow to me means a mountain that cranks out profit, which is being spent elsewhere. It is not being pumped back into the cow.

K today reminds me of Mt. Snow during the ASC days. A cash cow that was falling apart. Peak rescued Mt. Snow.

All of this is why I find it so absurd when people want to talk about Killington's budget, or what they can afford to spend running lifts, or making snow, or anything else.

Since Powdr is a private company, we can't know any real information about any of this. But "cash cow" increasingly comes to mind when I look at K.

[KingsFourMan]

killington's one of powdr's cash cows. would doubt they'd sell it especially w the long awaited village apparently becoming a reality unless they have some debt payments due and desperately need the money.

Been saying this for a long time. I know it's a capital-intensive business, but with the traffic they get, and the amount of overpriced concessions they sell, they have to be generating a ton of revenue. Add in the summer business which is actually turning a profit now with MTB, etc.

My guess would be the reason you're not seeing more infrastructure investment right now is they are preparing to invest in the village (new lodges, parking lot changes, etc). I would guess that spending would delay any major lift upgrades until after it's completed.

I think this is what is going on as well. The new base lodge, stated to be the anchor of the new village, will probably be in the $75-$85M range including soft costs. Could be more. The other costs that they are responsible for associated with the village are probably in that range as well so call it $150-$175M when all is said and done including the new employee housing.

I also think that they likely took a significant hit on the new K1 Lodge which was severely delayed as a result of the pandemic. That was a force majeure event, and most construction contracts make that the contractor's problem, but in reality, they usually result in negotiations and shared responsibility.

Regardless of what is going on, and something is definitely going on, I fully expected a major announcement regarding lift upgrades and possibly even the interconnect to coincide with the village announcement. That still might happen with the eventual groundbreaking announcement which is still at least 1-2 years away but at the moment that doesn't look likely. Great Gulf/6 Peaks can't be happy with the current state of affairs with respect to Killington's infrastructure and all the negativity associated with it.

[Big Bob]

killington's one of powdr's cash cows. would doubt they'd sell it especially w the long awaited village apparently becoming a reality unless they have some debt payments due and desperately need the money.

IMO, the term hits the nail on the head regarding what I think has happened to Killington.

Cash cow to me means a mountain that cranks out profit, which is being spent elsewhere. It is not being pumped back into the cow.

K today reminds me of Mt. Snow during the ASC days. A cash cow that was falling apart. Peak rescued Mt. Snow.

All of this is why I find it so absurd when people want to talk about Killington's budget, or what they can afford to spend running lifts, or making snow, or anything else.

Since Powdr is a private company, we can't know any real information about any of this. But "cash cow" increasingly comes to mind when I look at K.

Cash cow or a boat which is a hole in the water in which you throw cash in to fill it. With Killington's ageing infrastructure which others have quoted that needs $200 million or more to upgrade and with a reported profit of around $13 million a year, do the math. ROI will take awhile unless they get some of the profit off the real estate sales.

[Mistergiff]

killington's one of powdr's cash cows. would doubt they'd sell it especially w the long awaited village apparently becoming a reality unless they have some debt payments due and desperately need the money.

Been saying this for a long time. I know it's a capital-intensive business, but with the traffic they get, and the amount of overpriced concessions they sell, they have to be generating a ton of revenue. Add in the summer business which is actually turning a profit now with MTB, etc.

My guess would be the reason you're not seeing more infrastructure investment right now is they are preparing to invest in the village (new lodges, parking lot changes, etc). I would guess that spending would delay any major lift upgrades until after it's completed.

I think this is what is going on as well. The new base lodge, stated to be the anchor of the new village, will probably be in the $75-$85M range including soft costs. Could be more. The other costs that they are responsible for associated with the village are probably in that range as well so call it $150-$175M when all is said and done including the new employee housing.

I also think that they likely took a significant hit on the new K1 Lodge which was severely delayed as a result of the pandemic. That was a force majeure event, and most construction contracts make that the contractor's problem, but in reality, they usually result in negotiations and shared responsibility.

Regardless of what is going on, and something is definitely going on, I fully expected a major announcement regarding lift upgrades and possibly even the interconnect to coincide with the village announcement. That still might happen with the eventual groundbreaking announcement which is still at least 1-2 years away but at the moment that doesn't look likely. Great Gulf/6 Peaks can't be happy with the current state of affairs with respect to Killington's infrastructure and all the negativity associated with it.

This is logical but at this point some of the infrastructure, particularly Skyeship is so bad it cannot wait for the village. The whole vibe is off this year, people see the place isn't being operated at its full potential. I suspect there's more to the story than just waiting for the village.

[Stormchaser]

Cash cow or a boat which is a hole in the water in which you throw cash in to fill it. With Killington's ageing infrastructure which others have quoted that needs $200 million or more to upgrade and with a reported profit of around $13 million a year, do the math. ROI will take awhile unless they get some of the profit off the real estate sales.

You know why they call it a BOAT right? Bust Out Another Thousand!

[hillbangin]

Cash cow or a boat which is a hole in the water in which you throw cash in to fill it. With Killington's ageing infrastructure which others have quoted that needs $200 million or more to upgrade and with a reported profit of around $13 million a year, do the math. ROI will take awhile unless they get some of the profit off the real estate sales.

You know why they call it a BOAT right? Bust Out Another Thousand!

with inflation its BOATT - Bust out another TEN thousand.......

[Downdraft]

It will be a full buyout of all ski areas under Powdr. Except for Woodward that will stay. Alterra will buy them out, Powder will keep the stand alone Woodward locations as well as the summer ones and their other companies not associated with skiing. With in a year this will happen.

[Mistergiff]

It will be a full buyout of all ski areas under Powdr. Except for Woodward that will stay. Alterra will buy them out, Powder will keep the stand alone Woodward locations as well as the summer ones and their other companies not associated with skiing. With in a year this will happen.

Alterra has more than enough cash to make this happen and Powdr's resorts are critical to the Ikon Pass. Feels likely.

[rogman]

Reading the tea leaves of POWDR’s intentions is impossible for outsiders. They are inscrutable. They’re actually a weird company in that regard. I would expect an organization with millions of customers to be a bit more forward facing, and do a bit of rah-rah huckstering with a side of carnival barker-ism. Nope. The radio silence is deafening. So it opens them to all kinds of speculation based on what ought to be irrelevant minutiae. It is what it is.

That Killington is a “cash cow” doesn’t matter. That gets factored into the selling price. Besides, the cash cow is Copper. The other notion, that POWDR is “saving up” for the village is laugh out loud naive. POWDR is basically a hedge fund, with a bunch of silent investors, with John Cumming as front man. It is possible that one or more of these investors wants out. It’s been a while, and it may seem like a good time to cash out; values are high, the village is going forward, the next few years are going to require some serious investment in Killington. Time to exit. The majority can tell them to pound sand, but big picture, probably not. So they’re scrambling for cash for the buyout. But see? In a world devoid of facts this sort of speculation is possible, doesn’t make it true. Hell will freeze over before POWDR publishes a 2030 plan, and that’s the real issue. We are mushrooms.

[Big Bob]

Reading the tea leaves of POWDR’s intentions is impossible for outsiders. They are inscrutable. They’re actually a weird company in that regard. I would expect an organization with millions of customers to be a bit more forward facing, and do a bit of rah-rah huckstering with a side of carnival barker-ism. Nope. The radio silence is deafening. So it opens them to all kinds of speculation based on what ought to be irrelevant minutiae. It is what it is.

That Killington is a “cash cow” doesn’t matter. That gets factored into the selling price. Besides, the cash cow is Copper. The other notion, that POWDR is “saving up” for the village is laugh out loud naive. POWDR is basically a hedge fund, with a bunch of silent investors, with John Cumming as front man. It is possible that one or more of these investors wants out. It’s been a while, and it may seem like a good time to cash out; values are high, the village is going forward, the next few years are going to require some serious investment in Killington. Time to exit. The majority can tell them to pound sand, but big picture, probably not. So they’re scrambling for cash for the buyout. But see? In a world devoid of facts this sort of speculation is possible, doesn’t make it true. Hell will freeze over before POWDR publishes a 2030 plan, and that’s the real issue. We are mushrooms.

One of the reasons Altera recently raised money was some of the investors wanted to exit, so not all of their recent cash stash they got is avaliable to be invested back into their resorts or for new properties.