Historical trail closure patterns

[wgo]

Outer Limits is closed today if the trail report is to be believed. That does not seem great.

[skiadikt]

Outer Limits is closed today if the trail report is to be believed. That does not seem great.

i'd believe it. OL skied great yesterday but apparently they didn't groom it and if that's the case, you're not skiing it. pretty sure it's huge frozen bumps. doubt the sun will soften it enough today. there's plenty of snow on it.

[snoloco]

They were supposed to groom it, but didn't.

[wgo]

Gotcha. Appreciate the on the ground reports

[wtf021]

Winter in central VT is now pretty much like what winter used to be like in north central NJ where I grew up back in the 60’s and 70s. Winter in NJ is now basically non-existent, a short-lived cold snap here and there and a couple of small nuisance snowstorms if that. Significant rainstorms in VT in winter now outnumber significant snowstorms by far and skiing in VT is now just for warmups and to hold me over until the next trip out west.

We are less than 5 years away from retirement, and once that hits, I can’t see spending much time if any in VT during the winter months any more. We’ve owned a place there for over 20 years and the plan in retirement was always to go back and forth between NJ and VT like now but with much longer stays in VT than what we do now. But these winters, especially in the last 5 years or so, have us seriously reconsidering our plans for the winter months.

With a daughter in Denver who says she is never leaving CO, a condo in the mountains of CO within a few hours of her where we can spend Jan, Feb, and March and possibly a week or two in summer is looking more and more attractive all the time.

Just did the math on what it's going to cost me to ski in Vermont each year. Between the major capital improvement projects at Mountain Green along with other ownership costs, a ski pass at a mountain with operations that can't keep lifts running, and the hassles of a village construction project over the next 10 years, $38,000 a year to ski just isn't a logical or viable option anymore. Devastating. Was a good run...

Don’t forget the upcoming increase in property taxes. If your home is valued at $500k you are looking at $16k per year in taxes.

[KingsFourMan]

Winter in central VT is now pretty much like what winter used to be like in north central NJ where I grew up back in the 60’s and 70s. Winter in NJ is now basically non-existent, a short-lived cold snap here and there and a couple of small nuisance snowstorms if that. Significant rainstorms in VT in winter now outnumber significant snowstorms by far and skiing in VT is now just for warmups and to hold me over until the next trip out west.

We are less than 5 years away from retirement, and once that hits, I can’t see spending much time if any in VT during the winter months any more. We’ve owned a place there for over 20 years and the plan in retirement was always to go back and forth between NJ and VT like now but with much longer stays in VT than what we do now. But these winters, especially in the last 5 years or so, have us seriously reconsidering our plans for the winter months.

With a daughter in Denver who says she is never leaving CO, a condo in the mountains of CO within a few hours of her where we can spend Jan, Feb, and March and possibly a week or two in summer is looking more and more attractive all the time.

Just did the math on what it's going to cost me to ski in Vermont each year. Between the major capital improvement projects at Mountain Green along with other ownership costs, a ski pass at a mountain with operations that can't keep lifts running, and the hassles of a village construction project over the next 10 years, $38,000 a year to ski just isn't a logical or viable option anymore. Devastating. Was a good run...

Don’t forget the upcoming increase in property taxes. If your home is valued at $500k you are looking at $16k per year in taxes.

Those are NJ level property taxes and if that happens, we will be looking at a VT tax bill in excess of $25K. That will make the decision for us, we would sell our home in VT and exchange it for a 3 bedroom condo in either Summit County, Steamboat, Avon, or Snowmass. Near our daughter and college buddies on the front the range, and world class skiing where it doesn't r*in all winter long.

Unfortunately, the skiing in VT is the least of the reasons why we have a home there. It was the reason why we bought there in the first place 21 years ago but there are many other things about it now that we enjoy a lot more that we would miss. But with that level of property taxes, we would not be able to justify the expense and would take our money elsewhere.

[GMCrra]

Might be tough selling village units with a 30% tax increase, plus discussion of a millionaries tax that starts at 400k or 500k and estate taxes levied if you own real estate in VT.

So we are going to have a reassessment at peak COVID valuations plus new school funding. I can see the makings of the next real estate price correction coming.

Inflationary pressures probably mean above avg tax increases but VT resort towns are already fully twice the property tax rate per market value than CO or Maine. Real knuckleheads running things in Montpelier.

[Captain Hafski]

Outer Limits is closed today if the trail report is to be believed. That does not seem great.

Pretty sure O.L. was open yesterday [Saturday], at least in the afternoon. Not that it was very crowded, or that it looked very good, but there were people skiing/riding it through the day. Some of the better skiers were getting down it OK.

So: If the report on the App is correct, why is Cascade closed today [Sunday]? Was best snow on the mountain yesterday with the guns blowing full force.

[skiadikt]

They were supposed to groom it, but didn't.

i'm taking the weekend off, but according to the report OL is "open." the captain would probably call it "good eastern technical skiing". this week they've been making a full court press in terms of grooming, grooming as many trails as they can get to (up to 100/nite) including downdraft, double dip, mid-ovation and even nats like flume, north star and ridge run. bumps are in short supply. think it's fine to leave the only substantial bump run on the mtn bumped. it'll be awesome when things soften this week.

[spanky]

Might be tough selling village units with a 30% tax increase, plus discussion of a millionaries tax that starts at 400k or 500k and estate taxes levied if you own real estate in VT.

So we are going to have a reassessment at peak COVID valuations plus new school funding. I can see the makings of the next real estate price correction coming.

Inflationary pressures probably mean above avg tax increases but VT resort towns are already fully twice the property tax rate per market value than CO or Maine. Real knuckleheads running things in Montpelier.

We should probably split this discussion, but this is normal for K-Zone.

I’m all for progressive tax rates, but I can’t stand the fact that people equate raising income taxes with fixing wealth inequality. The truly wealthy do not show any income. Raising INCOME TAXES does nothing to them!

What are the Killington area property tax rates (i.e., tax per $1000 assessed)?

[GMCrra]

The education tax is all convoluted due to act 60/127 and CLA in VT, if you look at tax rate per assessed value I'm paying almost 2.6% of assessed value in property taxes. Thats NJ and suburban NYC level taxes. If you look at tax burden relative to market value, thats a lot more volatile. The issue is going to be on reassessment to market value relative to other non-resort towns in VT after COVID price surge. Rate will go down, effective taxes will go up, add the school funding for Woodstock on there and its a pretty hefty increase. VT could drive the real estate values right back down with aggressive taxation.

VT is ranked 48th in US for worst property taxes per property value in US behind NH, IL and NJ. But thats the state in aggregate, if you look at gold towns in VT they are up there or higher than the worst states. High income, capital gains, property transfer tax, sales tax and estate taxes too. And VT wonders why the population never grows significantly for very long.

Maybe towns should give back the federal COVID money that wasn't really free.

[daytripper]

The education tax is all convoluted due to act 60/127 and CLA in VT, if you look at tax rate per assessed value I'm paying almost 2.6% of assessed value in property taxes. Thats NJ and suburban NYC level taxes. If you look at tax burden relative to market value, thats a lot more volatile. The issue is going to be on reassessment to market value relative to other non-resort towns in VT after COVID price surge. Rate will go down, effective taxes will go up, add the school funding for Woodstock on there and its a pretty hefty increase. VT could drive the real estate values right back down with aggressive taxation.

VT is ranked 48th in US for worst property taxes per property value in US behind NH, IL and NJ. But thats the state in aggregate, if you look at gold towns in VT they are up there or higher than the worst states. High income, capital gains, property transfer tax, sales tax and estate taxes too. And VT wonders why the population never grows significantly for very long.

Maybe towns should give back the federal COVID money that wasn't really free.

How is VT ranked 48th if it's behind 3 states? Do we have 51 states now?

[GMCrra]

District of Columbia

But if we look at resort towns in CO or ME or NH compared to Killington, Ludlow, Stratton or Stowe you'll see property taxes are double in VT. Real estate values are higher in those other areas (likely due to taxes!) which masks the effective tax rate.

[Big Bob]

District of Columbia

But if we look at resort towns in CO or ME or NH compared to Killington, Ludlow, Stratton or Stowe you'll see property taxes are double in VT. Real estate values are higher in those other areas (likely due to taxes!) which masks the effective tax rate.

NH resident here. NH doesn't have an income or sales tax, which VT and Maine have, I am not sure about CO. Resort towns or lakefront towns in NH usually have lower tax rates per thousand due to the amount of taxable real estate relative to the school population in those towns. We do have a statewide eduction tax to placate a court ordere to have a state supported minumum spending per pupil, and we just had another court case where the state lost and has to increase the per pupil spending, proably by raising the state education portion of our property taxes. It is currently a small amount and it is returned to the town for the most part. So our "gold towns" using a VT term usually pay less in property taxes than less wealthy towns relative to real estate overall valuation.
Vt has to get their spending under control on the education side!

[asher2789]

Might be tough selling village units with a 30% tax increase, plus discussion of a millionaries tax that starts at 400k or 500k and estate taxes levied if you own real estate in VT.

So we are going to have a reassessment at peak COVID valuations plus new school funding. I can see the makings of the next real estate price correction coming.

Inflationary pressures probably mean above avg tax increases but VT resort towns are already fully twice the property tax rate per market value than CO or Maine. Real knuckleheads running things in Montpelier.

im all for taxing the sh*t out of millionaires (and agree with another comment that going after wealth instead of income would target the truly wealthy) but last i checked a million is not 400 or 500k!

re trail closures: skyeship 1 due to elevation, then / around same time south ridge first since its mostly natural (all this year? pipe dream never got blown right?) and sun exposed, lower royal flush as well for the same reason. bear goes pretty quickly with the naturals going first (devils fiddle already), then needles/skyeship 2, then ramshead, soon after snowshed (assuming theres still brit groups) then snowdon and finally k1 before you get to whatevers left on the superstar in may/june.

most years since ive been here the majority of closures happen in april one week after another but given the long term forecast its not looking good. k1 is usually closed before may.

year to year things change based on operations plans and how much snow they blow and where. a few years ago snowdon and ramshead were open pretty late into april due to the replacement of k1 lodge...