Dedicated Express Access Lanes

[KingsFourMan]

Totally ironic. Hilarious actually. Why invest a hundred plus million dollars on new state of the art lifts like Vail is currently doing at Stowe, Okemo, Mount Snow, Whistler, Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Northstar, and Heavenly to the tune of 12 new state of the art high-speed chairlifts, a new high-speed gondola and six new fixed-grip chairlifts when all you really need to do is institute dedicated express access lanes?

Yeah that's the ticket. See I told you, POWDR is WAY better than Vail! What a joke, LMFAO.

And if Vail owned Killington they would immediately chop a month off the season on each end. MINIMUM!

Of course that is exactly what Powdum did when they first got here.

You beat me to the punch. Along with shuttering an entire mountain area, base lodge, and access point at Sunrise Mountain forever. Lets not forget about that travesty at a resort where family friendly blue terrain is in very short supply. Or did that arrogant flaming asshole Less Otten do that? I seem to remember Nyburg saying "we have a cathedral here built for Christmas and Easter" just before he embarked on a massive consolidation/reduction program at Killington. Either way, POWDR sucks almost as much as ASC did and has been getting their clock cleaned by Vail for years.

The entire K-Zone forum told you how wrong you were and you continue to beat this drum....either every single one of us is an idiot or you are the idiot.

You're so right, who wouldn't rather have dedicated express access lanes on antiquated lifts for the privileged few rather than state of the art new lifts? I don't know what I was thinking.

[deadheadskier]

And if Vail owned Killington they would immediately chop a month off the season on each end. MINIMUM!

Of course that is exactly what Powdum did when they first got here.

You beat me to the punch. Along with shuttering an entire mountain area, base lodge, and access point at Sunrise Mountain forever. Lets not forget about that travesty at a resort where family friendly blue terrain is in very short supply. Or did that arrogant flaming asshole Less Otten do that? I seem to remember Nyburg saying "we have a cathedral here built for Christmas and Easter" just before he embarked on a massive consolidation/reduction program at Killington. Either way, POWDR sucks almost as much as ASC did and has been getting their clock cleaned by Vail for years.

The entire K-Zone forum told you how wrong you were and you continue to beat this drum....either every single one of us is an idiot or you are the idiot.

You're so right, who wouldn't rather have dedicated express access lanes on antiquated lifts for the privileged few rather than state of the art new lifts? I don't know what I was thinking.

You're not thinking about and addressing the points others are making. Of course people would like new lifts. However what they don't want is what Vail has delivered at almost every place they've bought.

1. A shorter season; often significantly so. May 1st becomes the new June 1st under Vail and forget about potential October turns
2. Bigger crowds due to super low pass prices. You know, just like ASC which you were not fond of.

Those two things for many Killington skiers are not a fair trade off for new lifts

[hillbangin]

Yup. Vail is great.

Now if the 13000 people that show up here on Saturdays figured that out and bought Epic passes we would be all set.

Just like those awful Nyberg days.

Nice and quiet.

New lifts don't mean squat. See the BUBBLE on a Saturday.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[throbster]

Good opinion piece on this topic:

https://www.adventure-journal.com/2021/ ... SfBU6_mtic

[Coydog]

Good opinion piece on this topic:

https://www.adventure-journal.com/2021/ ... SfBU6_mtic

That article does a really good job framing the strong negative energy expressed in here. As primarily a midweek skier, the FastScam pass doesn’t seem to significantly impact me, but if K persists with this unpopular idea, maybe it should be limited to holidays and weekends and, as already mentioned, begin 1 hour after first chair. An option to pay a little more for faster access during those periods might be better tolerated.

[daytripper]

Totally ironic. Hilarious actually. Why invest a hundred plus million dollars on new state of the art lifts like Vail is currently doing at Stowe, Okemo, Mount Snow, Whistler, Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Northstar, and Heavenly to the tune of 12 new state of the art high-speed chairlifts, a new high-speed gondola and six new fixed-grip chairlifts when all you really need to do is institute dedicated express access lanes?

Yeah that's the ticket. See I told you, POWDR is WAY better than Vail! What a joke, LMFAO.

And if Vail owned Killington they would immediately chop a month off the season on each end. MINIMUM!

Of course that is exactly what Powdum did when they first got here.

You beat me to the punch. Along with shuttering an entire mountain area, base lodge, and access point at Sunrise Mountain forever. Lets not forget about that travesty at a resort where family friendly blue terrain is in very short supply. Or did that arrogant flaming asshole Less Otten do that? I seem to remember Nyburg saying "we have a cathedral here built for Christmas and Easter" just before he embarked on a massive consolidation/reduction program at Killington. Either way, POWDR sucks almost as much as ASC did and has been getting their clock cleaned by Vail for years.

The entire K-Zone forum told you how wrong you were and you continue to beat this drum....either every single one of us is an idiot or you are the idiot.

Sunrise was gone before powdr. Yes nyburg tried to cut the season length. They realized that was a mistake and fixed it so not sure what you are getting at. Go ski at Mt snow and okemo if you like Vail so much.

[Southside_Bobby]

Good opinion piece on this topic:

https://www.adventure-journal.com/2021/ ... SfBU6_mtic

That article does a really good job framing the strong negative energy expressed in here.

An extremely good job. If you have ever written this kind of blog post article, you know it can take a long time to get just right. This person put a lot of work into it. Got it just right, IMO.

They need to pull this plan. At the least, they should suspend it for the season, based on the fact that they sold passes for six months and said nothing about Gaspass. Offering refunds now is BS. Will they also pay the difference between early deadline prices and the full prices people would have to pay to get a pass somewhere else now?

It is significant that they said nothing till the news broke in the WSJ.

"Then, on Monday, Killington officially drops the news – first reported last Friday by The Wall Street Journal – that it would be installing so-called Fast Tracks lanes at nine lifts ahead of this season."

If they don't reverse course on this, 2021-22 will be remembered by them as the season of bad PR. Mike will remember it as the season his job sucked.

I say we start a "day Powdr caves" pool.

[Ovation]

Statistics are useful, and I think this should be marketed A bit differently.

Does having this lane cause a statistically significant difference in the time in line for non-fast pass holders?

Do the people who pay for this service ski less than average and therefore provide a further net decrease slope crowding(measured in time per run perhaps)

Given the higher price these people pay for a day of skiing does it increase total revenue (by pass purchasers) even higher? That is do pass purchasers spend more on lunch and retail because it is now a lower percentage of total daily cost?

Is the increase in revenue an important offset allowing for funding for a longer season?

Is it Pareto optimal, if everyone is better off and no one (statistically significantly) worse off?

I bet a lot of regulars would be happy for these people to pay up on holidays from 11am - 2pm if that was the revenue that let operations extend to June…..

The rant on the other site has no facts and suggests they are somehow wronged when in fact the opposite might be true.

[Southside_Bobby]

Statistics are useful, and I think this should be marketed A bit differently.

Thanks for providing me with my laugh for the day.

[Bubba]

Statistics are useful, and I think this should be marketed A bit differently.

Does having this lane cause a statistically significant difference in the time in line for non-fast pass holders?

Do the people who pay for this service ski less than average and therefore provide a further net decrease slope crowding(measured in time per run perhaps)

Given the higher price these people pay for a day of skiing does it increase total revenue (by pass purchasers) even higher? That is do pass purchasers spend more on lunch and retail because it is now a lower percentage of total daily cost?

Is the increase in revenue an important offset allowing for funding for a longer season?

Is it Pareto optimal, if everyone is better off and no one (statistically significantly) worse off?

I bet a lot of regulars would be happy for these people to pay up on holidays from 11am - 2pm if that was the revenue that let operations extend to June…..

The rant on the other site has no facts and suggests they are somehow wronged when in fact the opposite might be true.

Let's add another statistic:

Is the bad PR and the potential impact on business (current and future) more or less than the revenue impact of selling FastTracks tickets?

As for statistics in general, if you torture statistics long enough they can be made to say anything.

[hillbangin]

With the fast pass you also get a hot pink kevlar vest that says ' Don't hate me butt I have a fast pass'.

You have to pay another $ 250 for a body guard.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Coydog]

Statistics are useful, and I think this should be marketed A bit differently.

Does having this lane cause a statistically significant difference in the time in line for non-fast pass holders?
If it doesn’t, then it really is a scam since there isn’t a true value for the fast pass holder. Why pay for faster access if it isn’t statistically faster?

Do the people who pay for this service ski less than average and therefore provide a further net decrease slope crowding(measured in time per run perhaps)
Don’t follow this.

Given the higher price these people pay for a day of skiing does it increase total revenue (by pass purchasers) even higher? That is do pass purchasers spend more on lunch and retail because it is now a lower percentage of total daily cost?
Don’t see how. I don’t spend more simply because someone else paid more for a day ticket or lodging.

Is the increase in revenue an important offset allowing for funding for a longer season?
The longer season is a paramount K brand attribute, doubtful there would be any correlation with this program, at least there shouldn't be.

Is it Pareto optimal, if everyone is better off and no one (statistically significantly) worse off?
Based on the vocal passion against it, no, not so far.

I bet a lot of regulars would be happy for these people to pay up on holidays from 11am - 2pm if that was the revenue that let operations extend to June…..
Maybe if the pass was explicitly limited to that window, but my understanding is it isn't.

The rant on the other site has no facts and suggests they are somehow wronged when in fact the opposite might be true.
Seems unlikely, but as we all know, perception is everything

[KingsFourMan]

Of course that is exactly what Powdum did when they first got here.

You beat me to the punch. Along with shuttering an entire mountain area, base lodge, and access point at Sunrise Mountain forever. Lets not forget about that travesty at a resort where family friendly blue terrain is in very short supply. Or did that arrogant flaming asshole Less Otten do that? I seem to remember Nyburg saying "we have a cathedral here built for Christmas and Easter" just before he embarked on a massive consolidation/reduction program at Killington. Either way, POWDR sucks almost as much as ASC did and has been getting their clock cleaned by Vail for years.

The entire K-Zone forum told you how wrong you were and you continue to beat this drum....either every single one of us is an idiot or you are the idiot.

You're so right, who wouldn't rather have dedicated express access lanes on antiquated lifts for the privileged few rather than state of the art new lifts? I don't know what I was thinking.

You're not thinking about and addressing the points others are making. Of course people would like new lifts. However what they don't want is what Vail has delivered at almost every place they've bought.

1. A shorter season; often significantly so. May 1st becomes the new June 1st under Vail and forget about potential October turns
2. Bigger crowds due to super low pass prices. You know, just like ASC which you were not fond of.

Those two things for many Killington skiers are not a fair trade off for new lifts

As far as early openings dates in VT, we're talking a difference of what, days? maybe 2 weeks, heck lets call it 3 weeks. And that's to ski 2 stinking mobbed trails that are scraped down to boiler plate by 10:00 no matter what VT resort you want to talk about. I'd give that up not to be waiting in the Rams Head lift line for 45 minutes all season long or stuck on the Skyship Gondola for another extended breakdown. And as far as late season skiing goes, the overwhelming vast majority of the skiing public couldn't care less about skiing beyond May 1st. If they did, every ski resort would be doing the same thing.

Bigger crowds due to low pass prices? The Ikon base pass is $879 vs the Epic Local pass which was $774 last year. That's a whole whopping $105 bucks cheaper...over the course of an entire ski season...and you're going to tell me that's the reason why Epic resorts are more crowded than POWDR resorts??? How about the fact that in general what Epic resorts provide in regards to what we are talking about here - lifts and amenities, is FAR superior to what POWDR provides? Or is it really $105 lousy bucks that is the difference maker?

[Ovation]

Agree, that’s a good natural experiment controlling for things, like weather, gas prices... but again, is it possible everyone is better off?

And sure, stats can be manipulated, but the ones I suggest are fairly straight forward. I bet with full data I can predict a lot about the frequent posters behavior at K on this forum…:)

So if I go to a concert or sport event and pay for closer parking do I need a Kevlar vest? What about closer seats? If my paying more let you buy a cheaper seat (aligned with your budget and the value you place on going) you are better off right? What if without my spending there was no concert, you are worse off (and me too). Or suppose it is moved to a smaller venue with only higher precedence ticket (Bruce) does that upset you? I made everything even and you are worse off but happy?

This idea that don’t make someone better off if someone else is marginally even more better off is strange. If this policy funded 5 extra ski days would it become more acceptable? 10? I bet there is a value that you would be a promoter rather than detractor.

[KingsFourMan]

And if Vail owned Killington they would immediately chop a month off the season on each end. MINIMUM!

Of course that is exactly what Powdum did when they first got here.

You beat me to the punch. Along with shuttering an entire mountain area, base lodge, and access point at Sunrise Mountain forever. Lets not forget about that travesty at a resort where family friendly blue terrain is in very short supply. Or did that arrogant flaming asshole Less Otten do that? I seem to remember Nyburg saying "we have a cathedral here built for Christmas and Easter" just before he embarked on a massive consolidation/reduction program at Killington. Either way, POWDR sucks almost as much as ASC did and has been getting their clock cleaned by Vail for years.

The entire K-Zone forum told you how wrong you were and you continue to beat this drum....either every single one of us is an idiot or you are the idiot.

Sunrise was gone before powdr. Yes nyburg tried to cut the season length. They realized that was a mistake and fixed it so not sure what you are getting at. Go ski at Mt snow and okemo if you like Vail so much.

Yes and it was ASC, not Vail that did that. Like I've said, had Vail bought Killington instead of ASC, that likely would not have happened, I don't care how much Less is More Otten spun it about the village which still hasn't been built 25 plus years later.

We will be skiing Stowe, Okemo, and Mount Snow this year along with already booked trips to Vail and Beaver Creek in January, and Whistler in March. I now realize that they are both horribly mismanaged awful places but we're going to go there anyway and make the best of it. I just hope they institute dedicated express access lanes by then.