Mogul skier vs. Racer

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SkiDork
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Post by SkiDork »

Highway Star wrote:
SkiDork wrote:
Highway Star wrote:
SkiDork wrote:Well though out post skifaster.

Care to commit? My opinion is bump skiers have the basics of gate skiing down already and then have to add the 3rd dimension. Gate skiing is 2 dimensional. Therefore bump skiers have the advantage.
Only if you understand nothing about ski racing.
I understand ski racing.
Then you should know how false that statement is. (or you only race on Highline....lol)
OK mr expert - splain me. And don't tell me about ruts, everyone knows about ruts.
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Post by Highway Star »

SkiDork wrote:
Highway Star wrote:
SkiDork wrote:
Highway Star wrote:
SkiDork wrote:Well though out post skifaster.

Care to commit? My opinion is bump skiers have the basics of gate skiing down already and then have to add the 3rd dimension. Gate skiing is 2 dimensional. Therefore bump skiers have the advantage.
Only if you understand nothing about ski racing.
I understand ski racing.
Then you should know how false that statement is. (or you only race on Highline....lol)
OK mr expert - splain me. And don't tell me about ruts, everyone knows about ruts.
Most higher level race courses have pitch changes, how you ski those transitions (line choice, carving vs. skidding to setup, etc) can be the deciding factor in the entire race. This applies more to speed events, not as much to SL or GS, but it can be a factor there too.

Being a well rounded skier makes you a better racer, just as it makes you a better bumper, etc......cross-influences brings progression to the sport.
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Dr. NO
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Post by Dr. NO »

Highway Star wrote:
SkiDork wrote:
Highway Star wrote:IMHO......anybody who specializes too much in either one is pretty gay.
Is this just a joke answer?

People who want to compete pretty much have to choose a discipline. Not many (if any) can be world class in both.

Or are you just flexing your keyboard muscles?
I said "too much"..... :roll:

If you ski bumps so often to the point where you forget how to carve a turn effectively......that is gay. If you race so much that you forget how to ski bumps or trees (or never learn).....that is gay too.
Once again you prove you are a moron! GAWD someone shut him off!
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Post by Dr. NO »

1st, a good bumper has to be able to handle any terrain. A good SL racer has to also be able to handle any terrain. BUT in todays world, two totally different disciplines of skiing.

Good bumpers have control by slapping tails or doing what is neccessary to maintain control in bumps. The line is straighter and action much more intense. They also have to be able to take air on jumps or in the bumps.

SL skiers must be able to control speed and direction, but totally carving and accelerating. Used to be with straight skis, SL skies were best for bumps AND SL courses. No longer is that true. SL's want to turn and turn HARD and FAST, totally on edge. The course is no longer straight like a bump run ( I know for sure on that one ). You have to make short GS turns to stay on course, and then come off the ski to accelerate into the next gate or lose time and momentum. Bumper just lets it rip down the line, absorbing what comes at him and taking flight as necessary.

Two distinct disciplines. YES, a good bumper may be able to do SL, but most will not compete. A good SL skier may be able to bump, but most will never be at comp levels.

all around skiers may be able to handle both, but MOST never will be capable of doing either really well.

Sorry, but after 2 pages of some dribble by some a-hole I had to post without reading 5 pages. I think most racers/coaches/bumpers I know would agree with this.
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SkiDork
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Post by SkiDork »

So it's basicaly a tie?
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Dr. NO
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Post by Dr. NO »

SkiDork wrote:So it's basicaly a tie?
I would say so in todays disciplines. Moguls use different techniques to control speed and direction than SL. SL is fully carve and load and accelerate. That in the moguls could get you killed.

When SL was straighter with long straight skies, it was much more similar. Today, look at the skis. Totally different with shape and edges and stiffness. Sit back on a pair of 165 SL's in the bumps and you be DEAD! Try to edge on an ICY SL course with some 170 bumpers and fergedaboutit! So, most don't practice what the other does. Bumpers become "skidders" and SL'ers just try to hang on.
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Post by Mister Moose »

Dork, I really don't understand the direction of your question. It's not like which is better, Ford or Chevy. Its more like Vanilla and Chocolate. Both are good, and they are not the same, and just because you make a killer vanilla doesn't make you an expert on chocolate.

Which is the better skier, GS or SL? Same question.
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Post by Dr. NO »

Mister Moose wrote:Dork, I really don't understand the direction of your question. It's not like which is better, Ford or Chevy. Its more like Vanilla and Chocolate. Both are good, and they are not the same, and just because you make a killer vanilla doesn't make you an expert on chocolate.

Which is the better skier, GS or SL? Same question.
Sorry, that one is EASY. GS requires discipline and control more so than SL. It is much easier to run the gate over when it is in your way and you screwed up than to make the necessary proper turn to navigate the GS course. Again, totally different disciplines, but GS is THE discipline course of racing. Unlike SL, it allows for fewer errors to survive and win.
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keram
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Re: Mogul skier vs. Racer

Post by keram »

SkiDork wrote:OK - here's the question/contention:

Who is better?

Can a world class mogul skier cross over to a Slalom course and perform on a world class level easily?

Or is it easier for a world class Slalom skier to perform on a bump course and perform on a world class level?
an interesting subject. I've opened once a thread that got close to 2K views on epicski.com. I've brought up PMTS theory into skiing bumps and the war started spilling over to other sites.

My opinion is that racers can not ski bumps (as defined by Dan DiPiro). They are too tense, can turn first few bumps and then speed builds up while they're on the edges.

Also, bump skiers can not carve (as defined by PMTS HHarb crowd). I always see them sliding on groomed stuff and I guess it's hard to put on edges modern bump skis.

I myself like to do both and after some reasearch was pointed to Legen 8000 or B1s. Having been on RX8s for past season moved to RX6 and hope to test them on the OL soon...
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Post by millerm277 »

I ski B1's a lot, and find they are a great ski (although, I think they've been changed somewhat this year.)

Go give them a shot, Killington rents them if you can't find a demo day.
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Post by SkiDork »

I guess my original intent was just to see if there was a consensus as to which if the 2 disciplines had more of the other one in the tank.

i.e. Does a bump skier have 75% of what it takes to run a SL course, and does a SL skier have only 25% of what it takes to do a bump course?

It's prolly too dependent on an individual skiers background.

IMHO the general case is a bump skier has more of what it takes to do a real good alpine race course than a racer has to do a bump course. I think this because most great bumpers probably started out racing and then switched to bumping somewheres when they were kids. But the ones who started out racers prolly never went and learned how to bump it up bigtime (again, it's a generality, cerainly not the case for all).

Make any sense?
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swiftskier
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Re: Mogul skier vs. Racer

Post by swiftskier »

SkiDork wrote:OK - here's the question/contention:

Who is better?

Can a world class mogul skier cross over to a Slalom course and perform on a world class level easily?

Or is it easier for a world class Slalom skier to perform on a bump course and perform on a world class level?
Depends on the training. However, until their knees break down, the best can ski the whole mountain better and faster than all the turkeys that post on this forum.
SkiDork
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Re: Mogul skier vs. Racer

Post by SkiDork »

swiftskier wrote:
SkiDork wrote:OK - here's the question/contention:

Who is better?

Can a world class mogul skier cross over to a Slalom course and perform on a world class level easily?

Or is it easier for a world class Slalom skier to perform on a bump course and perform on a world class level?
Depends on the training. However, until their knees break down, the best can ski the whole mountain better and faster than all the turkeys that post on this forum.
Thank you Captain Obvious.

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Post by Highway Star »

Dr. NO wrote:
Highway Star wrote:
SkiDork wrote:
Highway Star wrote:IMHO......anybody who specializes too much in either one is pretty gay.
Is this just a joke answer?

People who want to compete pretty much have to choose a discipline. Not many (if any) can be world class in both.

Or are you just flexing your keyboard muscles?
I said "too much"..... :roll:

If you ski bumps so often to the point where you forget how to carve a turn effectively......that is gay. If you race so much that you forget how to ski bumps or trees (or never learn).....that is gay too.
Once again you prove you are a moron! GAWD someone shut him off!
You're gay too.....thanks for playing.
"I'M YELLING BECAUSE YOU DID SOMETHING COOL!" - Humpty Dumpty

"Kzone should bill you for the bandwidth you waste writing novels to try and prove a point, but end up just looking like a deranged narcissistic fool." - Deadheadskier at madhatter

"The key is to not be lame, and know it, and not give a rat's @$$ what anybody thinks......that's real cool." - Highway Star http://goo.gl/xJxo34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I am one of the coolest people on the internet..." - Highway Star

"I have a tiny penis...." - C-Rex

XtremeJibber2001 - THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS YOU COMPLETELY HYPNOTIZED. PLEASE WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO FILTER REALITY FROM BS NARRATIVES.

"Your life is only interesting when you capture the best, fakest, most curated split second version." - Team Robot regarding Instagram posters
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Post by Highway Star »

I JUST WANTED TO SAY, THAT THIS IS THE GAYEST DISCUSSION...........EVAR!!!!!!!!
"I'M YELLING BECAUSE YOU DID SOMETHING COOL!" - Humpty Dumpty

"Kzone should bill you for the bandwidth you waste writing novels to try and prove a point, but end up just looking like a deranged narcissistic fool." - Deadheadskier at madhatter

"The key is to not be lame, and know it, and not give a rat's @$$ what anybody thinks......that's real cool." - Highway Star http://goo.gl/xJxo34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I am one of the coolest people on the internet..." - Highway Star

"I have a tiny penis...." - C-Rex

XtremeJibber2001 - THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS YOU COMPLETELY HYPNOTIZED. PLEASE WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO FILTER REALITY FROM BS NARRATIVES.

"Your life is only interesting when you capture the best, fakest, most curated split second version." - Team Robot regarding Instagram posters
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