Killingtons opening and closing dates set

[skiingsnow]

There is a market of people that want to ski this late... but is a market full of people that already bought season passes, or people that live close by... no one drives several hours to ski superstar mid-late may or into june. Most anyone that loves skiing enough to still want to ski that late in the season already bought a season pass to whereever provides that late season they really want.

You have just summed up perfectly why Killington will not stay open late this spring. For new owners of a financially struggling company to continue to operate late into the spring and continue to pay its operating expenses with little hope of generating any significant additional revenue would be stupid.
You just made their case.

As an aside, I think it's been said here that Killington has actually operated under a profit each year, but ASC's debt and other resorts ate up all the profit K generated.

There was a $73,000 profit for fy 2006 before any debt was paid. That does include depreciation of assets and amortization which added up to $8.1 million, which the amount that is deprecation they didn't actually lose, but the assets are worth that much less, which would mean that much more in capital, although no one can say how much of that $8.1 million was only depreciation and is actaully cold hard cash . After debt was taken care of they lost over $5.9 million for fy 2006. For just the fist half of fy 2007 they had already lost $8.7 million compared to the $5.2 million lost the first half of fy 2006.

You're making it way too complicated for your brain.

They had a $8+M operating profit. Depreciation is nice to know about, but it's main relevance is to paying taxes and a guage of how much capital reinvestment is needed. Of that $8 million, ASC took $6 million to pay debt, and then re-invested $2 million in Killington.

There is a $6 million Interest expense for just Killington, right? Killington had its own seperate debt from asc. If I remember right sp/powdr had to also pay like $5 million in Killington debt plus the purchase price, and that probably wasn't the entire debt killington had. So if asc was taking $6 million from Killingtons "profit" to pay for the debt of the entire asc debt, why wouldn't Killington have a 8 million dollar profit listed as profit/loss for JUST Killington, and then asc taking that "official" profit to pay the debt?? The way it is written out, is seems this was something that had to be paid by Killington for Killington, and not just done this way to save on taxes. I have no clue as to any of this kind of stuff, so im only asking these questions... I dont know anything about it.

[Highway Star]

You have just summed up perfectly why Killington will not stay open late this spring. For new owners of a financially struggling company to continue to operate late into the spring and continue to pay its operating expenses with little hope of generating any significant additional revenue would be stupid.
You just made their case.

As an aside, I think it's been said here that Killington has actually operated under a profit each year, but ASC's debt and other resorts ate up all the profit K generated.

There was a $73,000 profit for fy 2006 before any debt was paid. That does include depreciation of assets and amortization which added up to $8.1 million, which the amount that is deprecation they didn't actually lose, but the assets are worth that much less, which would mean that much more in capital, although no one can say how much of that $8.1 million was only depreciation and is actaully cold hard cash . After debt was taken care of they lost over $5.9 million for fy 2006. For just the fist half of fy 2007 they had already lost $8.7 million compared to the $5.2 million lost the first half of fy 2006.

You're making it way too complicated for your brain.

They had a $8+M operating profit. Depreciation is nice to know about, but it's main relevance is to paying taxes and a guage of how much capital reinvestment is needed. Of that $8 million, ASC took $6 million to pay debt, and then re-invested $2 million in Killington.

There is a $6 million Interest expense for just Killington, right? Killington had its own seperate debt from asc. If I remember right sp/powdr had to also pay like $5 million in Killington debt plus the purchase price, and that probably wasn't the entire debt killington had. So if asc was taking $6 million from Killingtons "profit" to pay for the debt of the entire asc debt, why wouldn't Killington have a 8 million dollar profit listed as profit/loss for JUST Killington, and then asc taking that "official" profit to pay the debt?? The way it is written out, is seems this was something that had to be paid by Killington for Killington, and not just done this way to save on taxes. I have no clue as to any of this kind of stuff, so im only asking these questions... I dont know anything about it.

All the debt at Killington was managed and created by ASC. You can't talk about debt and say that it was Killington's fault. ASC had all sorts of debt distributed all over the place in very creative ways - some of it was at Killington itself.

The fundimental fact is that Killington turned a $8+ million operating profit in '06, a VERY BAD year for them. $6 mil went towards paying debt that year. $2 mil towards improvements.

If they were paying $6 mil per year at Killington towards debt, it sounds like ASC didn't really own much of Killington, now doesn't it? If they ever did. The banks or Oak Hill Capital Partners are ones that really owned most of the resorts ASC had. That's why they had to sell them off.

Go review the sales agreement again - if there was a signifigant chunk of debt that SPL paid off as part of the purchase, that might be detailed out, and was the true debt internal to the Killington operation itself.

[Skivt2]

Hey Skiingsnow.....

I did not have to read the killington website to know what was going on. The mountin said mid-April but The Killington "guys" (employees) on this website indicated that the mid-April was just a target. It was subject to change etc etc.

I was still mad at the threat of an early close back then but I figured that they were leaving their options open...You know lower expectations and then exceed them.

I figured that .......OK they are not promising a longer season but if conditions are good they will keep things the same as last year.

I asked if there was a hard close date of mid early April when I bought the pass. The guy on the phone said the same thing as our Killington employee posters here. Something similar to "Well you never know. It's not set in stone. They will see how it goes. Let them know how you feel etc, etc." Given that the deadline was there I had to give them a chance. I figured give them 1 season and see what happens.

Last week was the 1st time the website actually gave a Hard close date.

As others have pointed out, that is a change of posture from one of "we might stay open late. We are not promising" to "It's 4/13/08. Tough Sh*t". That shift in posture is deception pain and simple.

Even if you are right and I should have realized that these guys would ultimately commit pre-season to a mid April close, I can certainly be pissed about an early close. No self respecting hard core Killington skier is happy with a shortened ski season.

Like I said...I'm giving them one season to make it worth my while to come back and buy another pass someday. The bottom line is length of season is a key factor in that decision. If my last day of lift served skiing this year is not at Killington because they are not open and other mountains are, I won't buy a pass again there next year. We spend about $2,500 a year on lift tickets for 2 people to ski about 50 days/year. There are plenty of options out there to get 'er done at $25.00 per day. We will just chase the best value in skiing per $ spent.

By the way...You really have a lot of time on your hands to research all my previous posts and read through them. Maybe you do work for the mountian and I hit a nerve? Your post does sound a tiny bit defensive don't you think?

[Bling Skier]

Bait and switch?

[skiingsnow]

Hey Skiingsnow.....

I did not have to read the killington website to know what was going on. The mountin said mid-April but The Killington "guys" (employees) on this website indicated that the mid-April was just a target. It was subject to change etc etc.

I was still mad at the threat of an early close back then but I figured that they were leaving their options open...You know lower expectations and then exceed them.

I figured that .......OK they are not promising a longer season but if conditions are good they will keep things the same as last year.

I asked if there was a hard close date of mid early April when I bought the pass. The guy on the phone said the same thing as our Killington employee posters here. Something similar to "Well you never know. It's not set in stone. They will see how it goes. Let them know how you feel etc, etc." Given that the deadline was there I had to give them a chance. I figured give them 1 season and see what happens.

Last week was the 1st time the website actually gave a Hard close date.

As others have pointed out, that is a change of posture from one of "we might stay open late. We are not promising" to "It's 4/13/08. Tough Sh*t". That shift in posture is deception pain and simple.

Even if you are right and I should have realized that these guys would ultimately commit pre-season to a mid April close, I can certainly be pissed about an early close. No self respecting hard core Killington skier is happy with a shortened ski season.

Like I said...I'm giving them one season to make it worth my while to come back and buy another pass someday. The bottom line is length of season is a key factor in that decision. If my last day of lift served skiing this year is not at Killington because they are not open and other mountains are, I won't buy a pass again there next year. We spend about $2,500 a year on lift tickets for 2 people to ski about 50 days/year. There are plenty of options out there to get 'er done at $25.00 per day. We will just chase the best value in skiing per $ spent.

By the way...You really have a lot of time on your hands to research all my previous posts and read through them. Maybe you do work for the mountian and I hit a nerve? Your post does sound a tiny bit defensive don't you think?

Hey... I wasnt trying to bash you or anything, but rather just take reponsibility for your own mistake. I still think that if you bought the passes with a higher expectation then what they said, which was mid april, then its your fault... the only thing that I can think that they said that may have given you the idea that they may close later, is when they gave the "weather dependent" line, but I believe the purpose of that was to keep them out of trouble if they couldn't even deliver mid april, not that they may close later if weather allowed... they have never run the mountain before, and probably dont realize that as long as they make a good amount of snow, that mid april isn't going to be a problem to make it to as snow stays very well on many parts of the mountain.

[Nevada West]

Hey Skiingsnow.....

I did not have to read the killington website to know what was going on. The mountin said mid-April but The Killington "guys" (employees) on this website indicated that the mid-April was just a target. It was subject to change etc etc.

I was still mad at the threat of an early close back then but I figured that they were leaving their options open...You know lower expectations and then exceed them.

I figured that .......OK they are not promising a longer season but if conditions are good they will keep things the same as last year.

I asked if there was a hard close date of mid early April when I bought the pass. The guy on the phone said the same thing as our Killington employee posters here. Something similar to "Well you never know. It's not set in stone. They will see how it goes. Let them know how you feel etc, etc." Given that the deadline was there I had to give them a chance. I figured give them 1 season and see what happens.

Last week was the 1st time the website actually gave a Hard close date.

As others have pointed out, that is a change of posture from one of "we might stay open late. We are not promising" to "It's 4/13/08. Tough Sh*t". That shift in posture is deception pain and simple.

Even if you are right and I should have realized that these guys would ultimately commit pre-season to a mid April close, I can certainly be pissed about an early close. No self respecting hard core Killington skier is happy with a shortened ski season.

Like I said...I'm giving them one season to make it worth my while to come back and buy another pass someday. The bottom line is length of season is a key factor in that decision. If my last day of lift served skiing this year is not at Killington because they are not open and other mountains are, I won't buy a pass again there next year. We spend about $2,500 a year on lift tickets for 2 people to ski about 50 days/year. There are plenty of options out there to get 'er done at $25.00 per day. We will just chase the best value in skiing per $ spent.

By the way...You really have a lot of time on your hands to research all my previous posts and read through them. Maybe you do work for the mountian and I hit a nerve? Your post does sound a tiny bit defensive don't you think?

Hey... I wasnt trying to bash you or anything, but rather just take reponsibility for your own mistake. I still think that if you bought the passes with a higher expectation then what they said, which was mid april, then its your fault... the only thing that I can think that they said that may have given you the idea that they may close later, is when they gave the "weather dependent" line, but I believe the purpose of that was to keep them out of trouble if they couldn't even deliver mid april, not that they may close later if weather allowed... they have never run the mountain before, and probably dont realize that as long as they make a good amount of snow, that mid april isn't going to be a problem to make it to as snow stays very well on many parts of the mountain.

Shouldn't you have been in Montpelier today?

This group gave "charcoal" answers knowing that there would have been some hope for the longer season by the faithful that have put this place on the map. You have No idea what the reality is with the folks that are willing to give them this season, and just that.

If you are trying to play the devil's advocate, I would suggest another cause. You are a rumpswab.

[skiingsnow]

Hey Skiingsnow.....

I did not have to read the killington website to know what was going on. The mountin said mid-April but The Killington "guys" (employees) on this website indicated that the mid-April was just a target. It was subject to change etc etc.

I was still mad at the threat of an early close back then but I figured that they were leaving their options open...You know lower expectations and then exceed them.

I figured that .......OK they are not promising a longer season but if conditions are good they will keep things the same as last year.

I asked if there was a hard close date of mid early April when I bought the pass. The guy on the phone said the same thing as our Killington employee posters here. Something similar to "Well you never know. It's not set in stone. They will see how it goes. Let them know how you feel etc, etc." Given that the deadline was there I had to give them a chance. I figured give them 1 season and see what happens.

Last week was the 1st time the website actually gave a Hard close date.

As others have pointed out, that is a change of posture from one of "we might stay open late. We are not promising" to "It's 4/13/08. Tough Sh*t". That shift in posture is deception pain and simple.

Even if you are right and I should have realized that these guys would ultimately commit pre-season to a mid April close, I can certainly be pissed about an early close. No self respecting hard core Killington skier is happy with a shortened ski season.

Like I said...I'm giving them one season to make it worth my while to come back and buy another pass someday. The bottom line is length of season is a key factor in that decision. If my last day of lift served skiing this year is not at Killington because they are not open and other mountains are, I won't buy a pass again there next year. We spend about $2,500 a year on lift tickets for 2 people to ski about 50 days/year. There are plenty of options out there to get 'er done at $25.00 per day. We will just chase the best value in skiing per $ spent.

By the way...You really have a lot of time on your hands to research all my previous posts and read through them. Maybe you do work for the mountian and I hit a nerve? Your post does sound a tiny bit defensive don't you think?

Hey... I wasnt trying to bash you or anything, but rather just take reponsibility for your own mistake. I still think that if you bought the passes with a higher expectation then what they said, which was mid april, then its your fault... the only thing that I can think that they said that may have given you the idea that they may close later, is when they gave the "weather dependent" line, but I believe the purpose of that was to keep them out of trouble if they couldn't even deliver mid april, not that they may close later if weather allowed... they have never run the mountain before, and probably dont realize that as long as they make a good amount of snow, that mid april isn't going to be a problem to make it to as snow stays very well on many parts of the mountain.

Shouldn't you have been in Montpelier today?

This group gave "charcoal" answers knowing that there would have been some hope for the longer season by the faithful that have put this place on the map. You have No idea what the reality is with the folks that are willing to give them this season, and just that.

If you are trying to play the devil's advocate, I would suggest another cause. You are a rumpswab.

What makes you think that they have a clue about Killingtons history? What makes you think that they care? They have obvoisouly looked at Killingtons opening/closing history, and decided to straight up tell people what the new season would bring. Mid November to mid April, how is this giving a "charcoal" answer? Mid November to mid April is what they have set dates for... for whatever reason they have decided to add specific dates to the site... I dont see too many other mountains telling you about how long the season will be (mid nov- mid april)... some have said that they will be open if they have snow, but yet have not actually commited to anything. We are lucky to know what we are getting when passes went on sale.

Why should I have been in Montpelier today? How do you know i wasn't?

[Nevada West]

Hey Skiingsnow.....

I did not have to read the killington website to know what was going on. The mountin said mid-April but The Killington "guys" (employees) on this website indicated that the mid-April was just a target. It was subject to change etc etc.

I was still mad at the threat of an early close back then but I figured that they were leaving their options open...You know lower expectations and then exceed them.

I figured that .......OK they are not promising a longer season but if conditions are good they will keep things the same as last year.

I asked if there was a hard close date of mid early April when I bought the pass. The guy on the phone said the same thing as our Killington employee posters here. Something similar to "Well you never know. It's not set in stone. They will see how it goes. Let them know how you feel etc, etc." Given that the deadline was there I had to give them a chance. I figured give them 1 season and see what happens.

Last week was the 1st time the website actually gave a Hard close date.

As others have pointed out, that is a change of posture from one of "we might stay open late. We are not promising" to "It's 4/13/08. Tough Sh*t". That shift in posture is deception pain and simple.

Even if you are right and I should have realized that these guys would ultimately commit pre-season to a mid April close, I can certainly be pissed about an early close. No self respecting hard core Killington skier is happy with a shortened ski season.

Like I said...I'm giving them one season to make it worth my while to come back and buy another pass someday. The bottom line is length of season is a key factor in that decision. If my last day of lift served skiing this year is not at Killington because they are not open and other mountains are, I won't buy a pass again there next year. We spend about $2,500 a year on lift tickets for 2 people to ski about 50 days/year. There are plenty of options out there to get 'er done at $25.00 per day. We will just chase the best value in skiing per $ spent.

By the way...You really have a lot of time on your hands to research all my previous posts and read through them. Maybe you do work for the mountian and I hit a nerve? Your post does sound a tiny bit defensive don't you think?

Hey... I wasnt trying to bash you or anything, but rather just take reponsibility for your own mistake. I still think that if you bought the passes with a higher expectation then what they said, which was mid april, then its your fault... the only thing that I can think that they said that may have given you the idea that they may close later, is when they gave the "weather dependent" line, but I believe the purpose of that was to keep them out of trouble if they couldn't even deliver mid april, not that they may close later if weather allowed... they have never run the mountain before, and probably dont realize that as long as they make a good amount of snow, that mid april isn't going to be a problem to make it to as snow stays very well on many parts of the mountain.

Shouldn't you have been in Montpelier today?

This group gave "charcoal" answers knowing that there would have been some hope for the longer season by the faithful that have put this place on the map. You have No idea what the reality is with the folks that are willing to give them this season, and just that.

If you are trying to play the devil's advocate, I would suggest another cause. You are a rumpswab.

What makes you think that they have a clue about Killingtons history? What makes you think that they care? They have obvoisouly looked at Killingtons opening/closing history, and decided to straight up tell people what the new season would bring. Mid November to mid April, how is this giving a "charcoal" answer? Mid November to mid April is what they have set dates for... for whatever reason they have decided to add specific dates to the site... I dont see too many other mountains telling you about how long the season will be (mid nov- mid april)... some have said that they will be open if they have snow, but yet have not actually commited to anything. We are lucky to know what we are getting when passes went on sale.

Why should I have been in Montpelier today? How do you know i wasn't?

I have a feeling that most have a sense for killington's history. would you buy a used car without checking Vehix or some other?
You are a rumpswab.

[skiingsnow]

Hey Skiingsnow.....

I did not have to read the killington website to know what was going on. The mountin said mid-April but The Killington "guys" (employees) on this website indicated that the mid-April was just a target. It was subject to change etc etc.

I was still mad at the threat of an early close back then but I figured that they were leaving their options open...You know lower expectations and then exceed them.

I figured that .......OK they are not promising a longer season but if conditions are good they will keep things the same as last year.

I asked if there was a hard close date of mid early April when I bought the pass. The guy on the phone said the same thing as our Killington employee posters here. Something similar to "Well you never know. It's not set in stone. They will see how it goes. Let them know how you feel etc, etc." Given that the deadline was there I had to give them a chance. I figured give them 1 season and see what happens.

Last week was the 1st time the website actually gave a Hard close date.

As others have pointed out, that is a change of posture from one of "we might stay open late. We are not promising" to "It's 4/13/08. Tough Sh*t". That shift in posture is deception pain and simple.

Even if you are right and I should have realized that these guys would ultimately commit pre-season to a mid April close, I can certainly be pissed about an early close. No self respecting hard core Killington skier is happy with a shortened ski season.

Like I said...I'm giving them one season to make it worth my while to come back and buy another pass someday. The bottom line is length of season is a key factor in that decision. If my last day of lift served skiing this year is not at Killington because they are not open and other mountains are, I won't buy a pass again there next year. We spend about $2,500 a year on lift tickets for 2 people to ski about 50 days/year. There are plenty of options out there to get 'er done at $25.00 per day. We will just chase the best value in skiing per $ spent.

By the way...You really have a lot of time on your hands to research all my previous posts and read through them. Maybe you do work for the mountian and I hit a nerve? Your post does sound a tiny bit defensive don't you think?

Hey... I wasnt trying to bash you or anything, but rather just take reponsibility for your own mistake. I still think that if you bought the passes with a higher expectation then what they said, which was mid april, then its your fault... the only thing that I can think that they said that may have given you the idea that they may close later, is when they gave the "weather dependent" line, but I believe the purpose of that was to keep them out of trouble if they couldn't even deliver mid april, not that they may close later if weather allowed... they have never run the mountain before, and probably dont realize that as long as they make a good amount of snow, that mid april isn't going to be a problem to make it to as snow stays very well on many parts of the mountain.

Shouldn't you have been in Montpelier today?

This group gave "charcoal" answers knowing that there would have been some hope for the longer season by the faithful that have put this place on the map. You have No idea what the reality is with the folks that are willing to give them this season, and just that.

If you are trying to play the devil's advocate, I would suggest another cause. You are a rumpswab.

What makes you think that they have a clue about Killingtons history? What makes you think that they care? They have obvoisouly looked at Killingtons opening/closing history, and decided to straight up tell people what the new season would bring. Mid November to mid April, how is this giving a "charcoal" answer? Mid November to mid April is what they have set dates for... for whatever reason they have decided to add specific dates to the site... I dont see too many other mountains telling you about how long the season will be (mid nov- mid april)... some have said that they will be open if they have snow, but yet have not actually commited to anything. We are lucky to know what we are getting when passes went on sale.

Why should I have been in Montpelier today? How do you know i wasn't?

I have a feeling that most have a sense for killington's history. would you buy a used car without checking Vehix or some other?
You are a rumpswab.

But they probably just looked at the numbers, not what the mountain meant to people, or what people had expectations for, and how Killington became Killington. They dont think it matters that they open early or stay open late, and that is just the way it is...

[skiingsnow]

There is a $6 million Interest expense for just Killington, right? Killington had its own seperate debt from asc. If I remember right sp/powdr had to also pay like $5 million in Killington debt plus the purchase price, and that probably wasn't the entire debt killington had. So if asc was taking $6 million from Killingtons "profit" to pay for the debt of the entire asc debt, why wouldn't Killington have a 8 million dollar profit listed as profit/loss for JUST Killington, and then asc taking that "official" profit to pay the debt?? The way it is written out, is seems this was something that had to be paid by Killington for Killington, and not just done this way to save on taxes. I have no clue as to any of this kind of stuff, so im only asking these questions... I dont know anything about it.

All the debt at Killington was managed and created by ASC. You can't talk about debt and say that it was Killington's fault. ASC had all sorts of debt distributed all over the place in very creative ways - some of it was at Killington itself.

The fundimental fact is that Killington turned a $8+ million operating profit in '06, a VERY BAD year for them. $6 mil went towards paying debt that year. $2 mil towards improvements.

If they were paying $6 mil per year at Killington towards debt, it sounds like ASC didn't really own much of Killington, now doesn't it? If they ever did. The banks or Oak Hill Capital Partners are ones that really owned most of the resorts ASC had. That's why they had to sell them off.

Go review the sales agreement again - if there was a signifigant chunk of debt that SPL paid off as part of the purchase, that might be detailed out, and was the true debt internal to the Killington operation itself.

Killington, Pico Sold To Dallas Company

POSTED: 10:54 am EST February 20, 2007
UPDATED: 11:05 am EST February 20, 2007


KILLINGTON, Vt. -- American Skiing Company has agreed to sell Killington and Pico resorts, four days after it announced the sale of Mount Snow in southern Vermont and New Hampshire's Attitash ski areas.

SP Land Company, a Dallas-based real estate investor, will acquire the resorts for $83 million in partnership with POWDR Corporation, a Utah-based resort company.

As part of the purchase, SP Land will assume about $5 million in debt.


SP already owns significant real estate holdings in Killington.

American Skiing said the sale of the resorts in the Northeast and planned sale of Steamboat resort in Colorado will allow it to pay off its debt.

Officials said the sale will not affect Killington and Pico employees or pass holders this season.

http://www.wptz.com/news/11062102/detai ... a&psp=news

[shortski]

Officials said the sale will not affect Killington and Pico employees or pass holders this season.

http://www.wptz.com/news/11062102/detai ... a&psp=news

I can't stop laughing.........

With guys like you defending their actions they don't need enemies

[laseranimal]

Officials said the sale will not affect Killington and Pico employees or pass holders this season.

http://www.wptz.com/news/11062102/detai ... a&psp=news

I can't stop laughing.........

With guys like you defending their actions they don't need enemies

did you check the dateline on that article?

As far as I can remember the sale DIDN'T affect any employee's or passholders during the season in which the article referred to(last season)

[skiingsnow]

Officials said the sale will not affect Killington and Pico employees or pass holders this season.

http://www.wptz.com/news/11062102/detai ... a&psp=news

I can't stop laughing.........

With guys like you defending their actions they don't need enemies

did you check the dateline on that article?

As far as I can remember the sale DIDN'T affect any employee's or passholders during the season in which the article referred to(last season)

Exactly... nobody was affected during the 2006-2007 ski season, the article was from Feb 20, talking about that season, not the next season (07-08).

[shortski]

Officials said the sale will not affect Killington and Pico employees or pass holders this season.

http://www.wptz.com/news/11062102/detai ... a&psp=news

I can't stop laughing.........

With guys like you defending their actions they don't need enemies

did you check the dateline on that article?

As far as I can remember the sale DIDN'T affect any employee's or passholders during the season in which the article referred to(last season)

Exactly... nobody was affected during the 2006-2007 ski season, the article was from Feb 20, talking about that season, not the next season (07-08).

Yup you guys are right, just like the question on Pico being closed mid-week, half truths and being technically correct don't hide what the new owners are doing. So you guys OK with what they did both to long time employees and the ski passes or are you just being a

[Bubba]

...So you guys OK with what they did both to long time employees and the ski passes.....

Employee cuts I'm OK with. Pass issue was bungled and mangled, even if they may be legally correct in the end.

Key for me is the apparent lack of vision and inspiration and their abominable communication skills in failing to tell people where they're going and what they want to do. At a time when they needed to inspire their various stakeholders, be they customers or local businesses, they have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. "Polishing the gem" just doesn't cut it. So far they've exhibited management rather than leadership. There's a big difference, and people are hugely disappointed.

Given what we've seen so far, can they rise above?