No more hiking(with skis/boards) at Killington...period

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laseranimal
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No more hiking(with skis/boards) at Killington...period

Post by laseranimal »

well looks like its an official new policy folks...........


So I got to K early this morning thinking I'd get a chance to check out how the Dukes handled going uphill and perhaps squeeze an extra run or two in since I had to be back in Troy early.

Started up GN and went up Chute to deliberately stay away from trails that had guns or snowcat activity on them. Made it to the bowling alley and saw someone else hiking up lower bunny buster, so we paused at the connection of GN/BB/Mouse trap when a patroller came down the GN and started chewing us a new one for hiking. His exact words were that the Ski area was closed until 9 am, we could not be there, and we would have to turn around and head back to the base area. I respectfully asked for an explanation why I couldn't be there given the leases ingress/egress clause, he then threatened to throw me off the hill. Again I requested how he had the authority to do so and asked that I be allowed to continue heading towards Ramshead since Mountain Ops was not working there, and again he threatened to pull my pass/ticket. I asked for his name(which I got and subsequently forgot) and if I could talk to someone in management to get an explanation(which at this point was all I wanted) and he fired back that "he WAS management" :roll: So at that point I realized I was dealing with the wrong person and that more likely then not he'd find SOME legal way to pull my pass so I ripped my skins off, and headed back down to the base.

At this point I was kinda miffed, no matter what I had done wrong I don't think I deserved that kind of treatment and I was still left with no explanation as to the reason WHY the policy has changed and how it was possible to do such a thing when IMHO the lease is fairly specific here. So I did what any other obnoxious New Yorker would do, I pulled out my cell phone at the Gondi and proceeded to call the BLM to ask how Killington could deny access to state land. Well that didn't get me too far because they appeared to have no idea as to what I was talking about, HOWEVER it did attract the attention of another patroller.

Tait the troller walked over and calmly told me that he'd be HAPPY to answer my questions. Which over the course of a 15 minute conversation, he did. He was not only professional in EVERY way possible but he actually took the time out of his day to have a chat with me and answer EVERY single one of my questions regarding closure rules to the best of his ability. He apologized for how I was treated by the other patroller, and said that some of us(meaning K staff) have to work on softening their tone a bit.

The gist of it was thus:

According to the VT agency of natural resources any snowmaking K makes is their product and they can control access to it.

There has been an explosion of the "earn your turns" crowd and K is worried about having so many folks on the hill with guns and cats working

If there is natural snow early you're apparently free to go ski it but once snowmaking operations begin for the year the mountain will effectively be closed to skiing and riding even if there was skiable natural snow. However in the event of skiable natural snow he thought nobody would give you a hard time if you went over to Pico.

They want to keep people off the mountain in the early morning when cats are running so no access to the mountain before lifts start turning. Basically when the mountain is in operation-no hiking allowed

He was unclear as to what the rules would be for when the mountain is not in operation such as when Bear closes for the year, after K closes April 13th, or during Pico's closure two days a week. He didn't think there would be a problem, but again he was not sure.

I did not ask what the hiking policy would be in the event of a wind hold. If spin or cmvrt doesn't want to address it here I will be firing off an e-mail to get clarification as to what the policy is.

I can't say that I agreed with everything he said were the reasons for closing the mountain to uphill ski traffic, nor all the policies that have been put in place. However the way in which he handled the situation, by being respectful, honest, and forthright(hey what a concept for K) I really don't have a choice but to abide by the policy. He could have completely blown me off or yelled at me just like the first patroller but instead he took the time out of his day to give me the chance to get some answers and vent my frustration,

Respect is a two way street and since he was nice enough to give me the respect I felt I deserved. I'm gonna give him the respect by not being on the mountain when he asked me not to.

Personally I would have liked to have someone like Dave or Tom clearly lay this out earlier, I think it could have done a lot to defuse what I'm sure have been a bunch of confrontations between K staff and skiers/riders over the past two weeks. They're essentially moving from an "open" don't ask policy to a "closed" one and merely stating that a longstanding policy has changed without any explanation as to why thats the case is sure to cause more trouble then if someone had just done what Tait took 15 minutes out of his day to do.

From my perspective its minor deal, when Mt Snow fired up the guns earlier this year, they just asked hikers to stop in and pick up a lift ticket at no charge, and places like MRG/Stowe don't seem to want hassle you for hiking for natural, so its not like early season turn earning is going away. Mid-season I'm going to be much more likely to head into the BC or to places like Magic on a windy pow day, and late season I'm more likely to be in the Dacks or at Tucks then at K.
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.

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Post by Vagabond »

If I were you, I would sue them for using your pic on there home page without your consent.
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Re: No more hiking(with skis/boards) at Killington...period

Post by RustyK »

laseranimal wrote:well looks like its an official new policy folks...........

so I ripped my skins off, and headed back down to the base.

.
Nice thesis.
My only question is, did you walk or ski down to the base.
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Post by Nikoli »

Laser,
What did the rude patroller look like? Short Hair / Long Hair, Tall or Short....
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Post by Dr. NO »

Probably a short guy with a gray beard and bad attitude, the PATROL NAZI strikes again
Last edited by Dr. NO on Nov 17th, '07, 19:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by icedtea »

damn thats some weak sh*t...we should organize a mass hike in the am. i will PM when i finally get to head up. no reason to stand for this!!

laser - you seem like a great person to ski / ride with and do not cause any problems for the mountain

this is some bs
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Post by robrules »

You should have told them that the Killington marketing department was advertising that you could "earn your turns" on opening day.

From the Drift:
Snowmaking & Opening Day!


Our snowmaking crews are working around the clock to build base depths on the upper sections of Killington Peak as we prepare for opening day on Friday, November 16. Currently, we’re making snow on Rime, Reason, Double Dipper, Rim Run and Great Northern as we are working our way down to the K-1 base.
With hundreds of snow guns, high-pressure hoses, snowmobiles, snowcats and heavy equipment moving about the mountain, maintaining a safe working environment for our staff is the number one priority. As a result, we respectfully ask that those seeking to “earn their turns” refrain from doing so until opening day.
We’re planning on offering Blue Square and Black Diamond terrain for opening day accessible by the K-1 Gondola. No Green Circle terrain will be available. All skier/rider services will be available at the K-1 Lodge.
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Post by laseranimal »

eh at this point its not worth the argument IMHO

all it means is that I'm less likely to make the commitment to Killington when there's the potential for a windhold or like this time when I had commitments back home and wanted to get a lap or two in before the lifts start turning.


BTW I've just heard from a pretty reliable source that they're not going to be allowing mid-week hiking at Pico
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.

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Post by Dr. NO »

Look for the name tag. Guy with the beard is DOUG. If you see him get the name tag and verify. Get a few people to complain about his nice customer care attitude and maybe we can ship him to some other POWDR area.
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Post by johnny the jibber »

Tate (or Tait) was (or still is) the head of the ski patrol last season...
he would shove your ass so far up your ass and stuff! -thejet61 10/2/09

If a snowboarder is in front of me or to the side I assume the slobbering moron will cut from one side of the trail to the other -GSKI 1/17/12
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ski2die
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Post by ski2die »

robrules wrote:You should have told them that the Killington marketing department was advertising that you could "earn your turns" on opening day.

From the Drift:
Snowmaking & Opening Day!


Our snowmaking crews are working around the clock to build base depths on the upper sections of Killington Peak as we prepare for opening day on Friday, November 16. Currently, we’re making snow on Rime, Reason, Double Dipper, Rim Run and Great Northern as we are working our way down to the K-1 base.
With hundreds of snow guns, high-pressure hoses, snowmobiles, snowcats and heavy equipment moving about the mountain, maintaining a safe working environment for our staff is the number one priority. As a result, we respectfully ask that those seeking to “earn their turns” refrain from doing so until opening day.
We’re planning on offering Blue Square and Black Diamond terrain for opening day accessible by the K-1 Gondola. No Green Circle terrain will be available. All skier/rider services will be available at the K-1 Lodge.
I'm with Rob on this one, their marketing material clearly articulates a policy that allows hiking once the mountain opens for the season... even if they didn't intend it that way.

I've been wondering about another situation... on race day's tons of spectators hike up to the "race areana" for that day to support their family member or just to watch. What's the policy on that? If I read the original post in this thread correctly, it's only a problem if your hiking with skis. Is this correct?
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Post by laseranimal »

ok so I e-mailed Dave about whats going on

within the hour I got a reply(thanks Dave!)
We are still waiting for official language from the State of Vermont on this topic. They have verbally given us permission to restrict people from accessing areas where our crews are working and skiing/riding trails where we are making/maintaining snow. They reviewed and approved our signage and tactics that were in place prior to opening. Before we make any additional or "official" statements on a policy we need the State to give us crystal clear direction in writing on what we are permitted to do and how we are permitted to proceed on the state leased land. Killington is one of 7 Vermont ski areas that operates on State land so we expect their direction will affect each area on State land.

The terrain at Pico is on private property. We will restrict access to areas on Pico where our crews are at work and at night, in general. There may be more restrictions as well. Prior to Pico's opening we will establish clear expectations and communicate them.
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.

John Muir
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Post by subdude »

ski2die wrote:
robrules wrote:You should have told them that the Killington marketing department was advertising that you could "earn your turns" on opening day.

From the Drift:
Snowmaking & Opening Day!


Our snowmaking crews are working around the clock to build base depths on the upper sections of Killington Peak as we prepare for opening day on Friday, November 16. Currently, we’re making snow on Rime, Reason, Double Dipper, Rim Run and Great Northern as we are working our way down to the K-1 base.
With hundreds of snow guns, high-pressure hoses, snowmobiles, snowcats and heavy equipment moving about the mountain, maintaining a safe working environment for our staff is the number one priority. As a result, we respectfully ask that those seeking to “earn their turns” refrain from doing so until opening day.
We’re planning on offering Blue Square and Black Diamond terrain for opening day accessible by the K-1 Gondola. No Green Circle terrain will be available. All skier/rider services will be available at the K-1 Lodge.
I'm with Rob on this one, their marketing material clearly articulates a policy that allows hiking once the mountain opens for the season... even if they didn't intend it that way.

I've been wondering about another situation... on race day's tons of spectators hike up to the "race areana" for that day to support their family member or just to watch. What's the policy on that? If I read the original post in this thread correctly, it's only a problem if your hiking with skis. Is this correct?
you will have to purchase a hiking pass for $25.
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Post by Stormchaser »

laseranimal wrote:ok so I e-mailed Dave about whats going on

within the hour I got a reply(thanks Dave!)
We are still waiting for official language from the State of Vermont on this topic. They have verbally given us permission to restrict people from accessing areas where our crews are working and skiing/riding trails where we are making/maintaining snow. They reviewed and approved our signage and tactics that were in place prior to opening. Before we make any additional or "official" statements on a policy we need the State to give us crystal clear direction in writing on what we are permitted to do and how we are permitted to proceed on the state leased land. Killington is one of 7 Vermont ski areas that operates on State land so we expect their direction will affect each area on State land.

The terrain at Pico is on private property. We will restrict access to areas on Pico where our crews are at work and at night, in general. There may be more restrictions as well. Prior to Pico's opening we will establish clear expectations and communicate them.
...so much for poaching Pico on Tuesdays and Wednesdays...
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Post by KBL Ed »

This whole issue is so dumb. (on the hikers' part, not K's)
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