The definitive answer BMMC

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Mar 12th, '08, 14:54

Following is an e-mail I sent to Spinmaster (Tom Horrocks) it is printed in its entirety, I have Tom's OK to post this.

Hi Tom,

Hope things are going well.

I sent you a PM but figured you're a little busy with the set up for this weekend so I figured I'd send you a e-mail.

It has become clear after several of the members of Killingtonzone.Com contacted the VT DLC that the answer to a previous question may not have been entirely the truth.

KillingtonRep wrote:
We wanted to get this information out as soon as possible after confirming the details with the State of Vermont Division of Liquor Control, so thanks to Bubba for asking the question!

Q: 1. What is the BYOB policy and how will it be enforced, and by whom?

A: Due to State of Vermont Liquor Laws governing alcoholic beverages in pubic places, specifically related to prohibited acts, Bear Mountain Mogul Challenge spectators and competitors will not be allowed to bring alcoholic beverages to the event, including the parking areas of Killington Resort. Law enforcement officials from the Rutland County Sheriffs Department, Vermont State Police and Vermont State Liquor Control Board will be enforcing compliance and checking spectator’s bags and coolers at the entrances to the Bear Mountain venue.

Please see the following e-mail from Tom Curran, Investigator, VT Dept. Of Liquor Control, Law Enforcement Division

Hi Don,

I got your phone message too, but you did not leave me a phone number to contact you, if you want me to call you please send me back your contact number. In a nutshell after observing last years event, we as Liquor Control will be looking to see that no giving away of alcohol or selling alcohol without a liquor license occurrs.This law can be found in Title 7 VSA 61 (Prohibited acts / Restrictions). The town of Killington does not have an open container law that prohibits open containers. But Killington Corp. Can enforce a policy of not allowing alcohol on it's land, except for where they can sell due to them having a liquor license. A lot of the reasoning in Killington changing some of it's policy's is due to increased liability. The open alcoholic container's in the parking lot is their decision. Again we (DLC) are looking mainly to make sure VSA 61 is adhered to, make sure minors are not drinking, and to assist with public safety issues.

I hope this answers most of your questions, if you need further assistance with a question, just let me know.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom Curran
Investigator
VT Dept. Of Liquor Control
Law Enforcement Division
(802)-362-6024
Tom.curran@state.vt.us

The question:

Now that is has become clear that the VT DLC has not change its policies from years past .

Will Powdr Corp. Allow spectators, as they have for the past 28 years, to bring to the Bear Mogul Mountain Challenge venue, alcohol purchased by them and for their personal consumption?
_____________________________________________________________

From: Tom Horrocks
Date: 3/12/2008 11:53:22 AM
To: Don McNeill
Subject: RE: BMMC Alcohol Policy

Don,
We will not allow people to bring alcohol to the Bear Mountain venue for their own consumption.
Tom
____________________________________________________________

From: Don McNeill [mailto:shortski@vermontel.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 1:43 PM
To: Tom Horrocks
Subject: RE: BMMC Alcohol Policy

Tom,

Don't think it's the right decision but respect that it's Powdr's right to not allow it. OK to share with he rest of the board.

Don
____________________________________________________________

From: Tom Horrocks
Date: 3/12/2008 1:46:36 PM
To: Don McNeill
Subject: RE: BMMC Alcohol Policy

call me, 422-6237.
____________________________________________________________

I called Tom and we discussed several things and as to the question of alcohol at the BMMC,:

The decision was a KSRP decision not a Park City decision, they (KSRP) felt they had to issue the ban because of the DLC telling them it was their responsibility to insure compliance with the state law on giving/sharing alcohol. KSRP felt it did not have the adequate resources to police the crowd to insure compliance. In order to minimize the exposure of loosing their liquor license they felt they had no choice but to issue the ban notice.

Those are the facts, I report you decide.

Stormchaser · Post by **Stormchaser** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:00

How does their liquor license become involved, when the issue is customers sharing with each other? Can I not go buy two beers now and give one to my wife? Cuz thats giving beer away... Will Killington have enough employees to police this?

Oh if you buy our booze we have enough people, but if its your booze, no way in hell.

Still a BS answer if you ask me...

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:04

Stormchaser wrote:How does their liquor license become involved, when the issue is customers sharing with each other? Can I not go buy two beers now and give one to my wife? Cuz thats giving beer away...

Still a BS answer if you ask me...

that would be OK because it's from a licensed vendor, as long as your wife is over 21. I've seen your wife...keep her away from Rick.

"we as Liquor Control will be looking to see that no giving away of alcohol or selling alcohol without a liquor license occurrs.This law can be found in Title 7 VSA 61 (Prohibited acts / Restrictions). "

Stormchaser · Post by **Stormchaser** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:05

shortski wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:How does their liquor license become involved, when the issue is customers sharing with each other? Can I not go buy two beers now and give one to my wife? Cuz thats giving beer away...

Still a BS answer if you ask me...
that would be OK because it's from a licensed vendor, as long as your wife is over 21. I've seen your wife...keep her away from Rick.

I bought my 12 pack in my cooler from a licensed vendor, hows that different?

Post by **SkiDork** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:07

Well, it's certainly a possibility that KSRP could get nabbed by the VLA and lose their license. So I guess the original wording of the paragraph was in a way, not toally untruthful

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:08

Stormchaser wrote:
shortski wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:How does their liquor license become involved, when the issue is customers sharing with each other? Can I not go buy two beers now and give one to my wife? Cuz thats giving beer away...

Still a BS answer if you ask me...
that would be OK because it's from a licensed vendor, as long as your wife is over 21. I've seen your wife...keep her away from Rick.
I bought my 12 pack in my cooler from a licensed vendor, hows that different?

Not on site, doesn't count. Bottom line it was KSRP'S decision

and they have the right to do it, end of story. Don't like it test the waters, just don't be first. I have a feeling that they will make an example of someone to make their point. JMHO

RustyK · Post by **RustyK** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:10

"we as Liquor Control will be looking to see that no giving away of alcohol or selling alcohol without a liquor license occurrs.This law can be found in Title 7 VSA 61 (Prohibited acts / Restrictions).

So if you bring you own for personel comsumption that is ok?

I guess were back to filling 2 liter bottles again.

Still a very grey response..

Stormchaser · Post by **Stormchaser** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:10

shortski wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:
shortski wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:How does their liquor license become involved, when the issue is customers sharing with each other? Can I not go buy two beers now and give one to my wife? Cuz thats giving beer away...

Still a BS answer if you ask me...
that would be OK because it's from a licensed vendor, as long as your wife is over 21. I've seen your wife...keep her away from Rick.
I bought my 12 pack in my cooler from a licensed vendor, hows that different?
Not on site, doesn't count. Bottom line it was KSRP'S decision and they have the right to do it, end of story. Don't like it test the waters, just don't be first. I have a feeling that they will make an example of someone to make their point. JMHO

Except their liquor license isn't for on the slopes, so both situations are technically off site...

Im just not going, simple solution. I'll ski all day instead...

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:11

SkiDork wrote:Well, it's certainly a possibility that KSRP could get nabbed by the VLA and lose their license. So I guess the original wording of the paragraph was in a way, not toally untruthful

Com'on Dork, they need to grow a set. Make the decision take the credit good or bad, businesses make hard and unpopular decision all the time. It's when they try to shift responsibility that's when things get mucked up.

Stormin_Aussie · Post by **Stormin_Aussie** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:12

shortski wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:
shortski wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:How does their liquor license become involved, when the issue is customers sharing with each other? Can I not go buy two beers now and give one to my wife? Cuz thats giving beer away...

Still a BS answer if you ask me...
that would be OK because it's from a licensed vendor, as long as your wife is over 21. I've seen your wife...keep her away from Rick.
I bought my 12 pack in my cooler from a licensed vendor, hows that different?
Not on site, doesn't count. Bottom line it was KSRP'S decision and they have the right to do it, end of story. Don't like it test the waters, just don't be first. I have a feeling that they will make an example of someone to make their point. JMHO

Great job shortski!

See you at the BMMC, or is everyone boycotting that now? I am so out of the loop! I hope that everyone can have a good time with or without the alcohol beverages.... Does anyone know if you can bring your dogs or are they banned too????

Post by **SkiDork** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:12

RustyK wrote:"we as Liquor Control will be looking to see that no giving away of alcohol or selling alcohol without a liquor license occurrs.This law can be found in Title 7 VSA 61 (Prohibited acts / Restrictions).

So if you bring you own for personel comsumption that is ok?

I guess were back to filling 2 liter bottles again.

Still a very grey response..

Not grey:

SpinMaster wrote:We will not allow people to bring alcohol to the Bear Mountain venue for their own consumption.

Highway Star · Post by **Highway Star** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:13

Sharpen your pitchforks and break out the torches!!!

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=21768

Stormchaser · Post by **Stormchaser** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:14

Stormin_Aussie wrote:
shortski wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:
shortski wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:How does their liquor license become involved, when the issue is customers sharing with each other? Can I not go buy two beers now and give one to my wife? Cuz thats giving beer away...

Still a BS answer if you ask me...
that would be OK because it's from a licensed vendor, as long as your wife is over 21. I've seen your wife...keep her away from Rick.
I bought my 12 pack in my cooler from a licensed vendor, hows that different?
Not on site, doesn't count. Bottom line it was KSRP'S decision and they have the right to do it, end of story. Don't like it test the waters, just don't be first. I have a feeling that they will make an example of someone to make their point. JMHO
Great job shortski!
See you at the BMMC, or is everyone boycotting that now? I am so out of the loop! I hope that everyone can have a good time with or without the alcohol beverages.... Does anyone know if you can bring your dogs or are they banned too????

Not enough employees to make sure your doggies dont yellow the snow. Sorry SA...

JerseyGuy · Post by **JerseyGuy** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:16

These guys still amaze me.

Finally, after 12 million posts and more than one person contacting the VT DLC for clarification (because we can't trust K-Marketing to answer our questions truthfully and/or accurately), we get this answer, my own emphasis added:

We will not allow people to bring alcohol to the Bear Mountain venue for their own consumption.

How friggin' hard is it for Killington to just tell the damn truth? They were worried about DLC policies they never really understood, they didn't have the manpower to staff the event and "enforce" these same misunderstood policies, they didn't want to look like the Bad Guys for the eight hundredth time this season... so they claimed that the whole mess was someone else's fault -- in this case, the state of Vermont -- lied about WHY any brownshirts would be there to enforce K-Mart's own policy, put in a plug for their own buy-it-all-here beer, and hoped no one would ask any pesky questions.

The ultimate irony is that, in these situations, it's often the cover-up, and not the original offensive action, that gets someone in hot water. In this case, the cover-up was bad enough, but now the original offense stands exposed for all to see:

For the first time in 28 years, the massive party knows as the Bear Mountain Mogul Challenge will force you to buy all of your drinks from Killington, period. And the decision is Killington's... and Killington's alone.

Uh... good luck with THAT.

shortski · Post by **shortski** » Mar 12th, '08, 15:17

Stormchaser wrote:
Stormin_Aussie wrote:
shortski wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:
shortski wrote: that would be OK because it's from a licensed vendor, as long as your wife is over 21. I've seen your wife...keep her away from Rick.
I bought my 12 pack in my cooler from a licensed vendor, hows that different?
Not on site, doesn't count. Bottom line it was KSRP'S decision and they have the right to do it, end of story. Don't like it test the waters, just don't be first. I have a feeling that they will make an example of someone to make their point. JMHO
Great job shortski!
See you at the BMMC, or is everyone boycotting that now? I am so out of the loop! I hope that everyone can have a good time with or without the alcohol beverages.... Does anyone know if you can bring your dogs or are they banned too????
Not enough employees to make sure your doggies dont yellow the snow. Sorry SA...

Great idea Storm'n. I'm going to go to the Pit Bull Rescue and pick up a couple of abused and out of control Pit Bulls and bring them to the BMMC, and I'm going to get them drunk before I get there.