Opening weekend

[laseranimal]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Looks much better than I was expecting it to be.

Also looking at going to Mount Snow if it opens before killington. Would that be worth it or is that a bad question to be asking on here?

Not that I CARE what conditions are on opening day, but opening day at Killington is no better or worse then anywhere else on the East Coast in terms of terrain open or quality of the terrain. Unless we get a huge snowstorm its going to be an icy crowded free for all anywhere on the East Coast.

Skippy's marketing department photos may LOOK good but what skippysnow ISN'T telling you(and WON'T tell you) is how icy and crappy last years opening day was at Killington due to a r*in/freeze event during the week before opening day, and by the time Killington actually LET you ski their super-steep 150 foot Mouse Trap run into the bowling alley Mt Snow had the North face open for uninterrupted top to bottom bump skiing. But don't worry it was "THE BEST OPENING DAY IN RECENT MEMORY!!!!"

He also has no IDEA what he's talking about with regards to Mt Snow since he has absolutely NO reference point as ALL he skis and all he's EVER skied is Killington. I'm also dubious of his claim that nobody is going to open much before Killington. He likes to play games with the time space continuum sometimes. You see when Mt Snow opens a week before Killington or Sugarbush decides to operate a week longer into the spring then Killington its not really a big deal, but when Killington gets a huge natural snowfall and manages to open Bear Mountain a week before its scheduled its a GIGANTIC accomplishment.

My suggestion, if you're jonesing for snow don't make any firm plans and watch the interwebz like a hawk to see who's going to open first. Then drive there and go skiing because at this point in the season, driving distance and date of opening make a much bigger difference vs terrain open and "quality product".*


If you don't believe me, just wait till Hulk Hogan gets here, he'll tell it to you straight



*of course if we get a huge snowstorm then all bets are off

[SkiDork]

Hey Andy - I bet V doesn't like seeing that bumped up Mouse Trap...

[Hulk Hogan]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Looks much better than I was expecting it to be.

Also looking at going to Mount Snow if it opens before killington. Would that be worth it or is that a bad question to be asking on here?

Not that I CARE what conditions are on opening day, but opening day at Killington is no better or worse then anywhere else on the East Coast in terms of terrain open or quality of the terrain. Unless we get a huge snowstorm its going to be an icy crowded free for all anywhere on the East Coast.

Skippy's marketing department photos may LOOK good but what skippysnow ISN'T telling you(and WON'T tell you) is how icy and crappy last years opening day was at Killington due to a r*in/freeze event during the week before opening day, and by the time Killington actually LET you ski their super-steep 150 foot Mouse Trap run into the bowling alley Mt Snow had the North face open for uninterrupted top to bottom bump skiing. But don't worry it was "THE BEST OPENING DAY IN RECENT MEMORY!!!!"

He also has no IDEA what he's talking about with regards to Mt Snow since he has absolutely NO reference point as ALL he skis and all he's EVER skied is Killington. I'm also dubious of his claim that nobody is going to open much before Killington. He likes to play games with the time space continuum sometimes. You see when Mt Snow opens a week before Killington or Sugarbush decides to operate a week longer into the spring then Killington its not really a big deal, but when Killington gets a huge natural snowfall and manages to open Bear Mountain a week before its scheduled its a GIGANTIC accomplishment.

My suggestion, if you're jonesing for snow don't make any firm plans and watch the interwebz like a hawk to see who's going to open first. Then drive there and go skiing because at this point in the season, driving distance and date of opening make a much bigger difference vs terrain open and "quality product".*


If you don't believe me, just wait till Hulk Hogan gets here, he'll tell it to you straight



*of course if we get a huge snowstorm then all bets are off

Let Me Tell You Something, Brothers! The Laseraminal Is Correct On All Counts Here, Brothers! Skiingsnow Thinks Everything Is All Rainbows And Butterflies When Killington Opens! Make Sure You Hulkamaniacs Sharpen Your Edges For Opening Day And Wear Some Body Armor, Brothers! Laseraminal Reigns Supreme Once Again, Skiingsnow!

[Highway Star]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Looks much better than I was expecting it to be.

Also looking at going to Mount Snow if it opens before killington. Would that be worth it or is that a bad question to be asking on here?

Last year, on the weekend of 11/10/07, Mt. Snow had 3 high speed lifts, two routes (+7 trails), one on the main mountain and one on carinthia, with a park. Slightly less than what Killington opens with, but quite compareable and better in some ways. They also opened a trail on the North Face on Sunday, Chute, ungroomed:




I talked to several Killington regulars who went to Mt. Snow, they were extremely impressed with the snow quality and the terrain open. They thought it was compareable to a GOOD Killington opening. I went to Sunday River....it was ok, not that great. If Mt. Snow opens before Killington again this year, I will certainly be there.

Killington opening last year was pretty weak. Friday 11/16/08. It had r*ined and refroze, and was foggy that day. Throughout the weekend conditions improved as they made snow. Sunday was the best day.

Overall, I think Killington was deeply embarassed last year. Mt. Snow and SR got the drop on them, in a big way. People who day-tripped up to Mt. Snow for the opening day probably came back more often than usual during the season. This year, I doubt Killington will make the same mistakes....expect them to make snow as agressively as is reasonably possible, and open when they have enough to open...if they weather stays cold over the next two weeks and they are able to produce snow at a good clip, we could see a October 31st opening out of them.

[G-smashed]

I don't want to r*in - freeze on anyone but we seem to be in a high pressure ridge - warmup - cold front with r*in - more high pressure - coastal storm misses to the south pattern. This is never good for us. Hopefully things will change after Nov 4.

[BoozeTan]

.if they weather stays cold over the next two weeks and they are able to produce snow at a good clip, we could see a October 31st opening out of them.

this would be sweet. Its been a few years since I got to ride on my birthday weekend.
I remember I was almost done putting the new siding on my house. All I had left to do were the gables. I started reading about everyone hiking for turns. I just couldnt take it anymore and headed up north hoping that the owners of my ski house werent going to be there. Luckily they werent and I stayed there even though our lease didnt start for another week. These were all taken Oct 30th.

[skiadikt]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Looks much better than I was expecting it to be.

Also looking at going to Mount Snow if it opens before killington. Would that be worth it or is that a bad question to be asking on here?

Last year, on the weekend of 11/10/07, Mt. Snow had 3 high speed lifts, two routes (+7 trails), one on the main mountain and one on carinthia, with a park. Slightly less than what Killington opens with, but quite compareable and better in some ways. They also opened a trail on the North Face on Sunday, Chute, ungroomed:

I talked to several Killington regulars who went to Mt. Snow, they were extremely impressed with the snow quality and the terrain open. They thought it was compareable to a GOOD Killington opening. I went to Sunday River....it was ok, not that great. If Mt. Snow opens before Killington again this year, I will certainly be there.

Killington opening last year was pretty weak. Friday 11/16/08. It had r*ined and refroze, and was foggy that day. Throughout the weekend conditions improved as they made snow. Sunday was the best day.

Overall, I think Killington was deeply embarassed last year. Mt. Snow and SR got the drop on them, in a big way. People who day-tripped up to Mt. Snow for the opening day probably came back more often than usual during the season. This year, I doubt Killington will make the same mistakes....expect them to make snow as agressively as is reasonably possible, and open when they have enough to open...if they weather stays cold over the next two weeks and they are able to produce snow at a good clip, we could see a October 31st opening out of them.

i hit mt snow on it's opening weekend. i can vouch that the product was better than k's was the following weekend. the north face (black) was open and the main run down the front was a solidly t-t-b intermediate run better than k's patchwork of run segments. you're right k did improve thoughout the weekend however. but i'm sure they now realize what a dumb move it was to sit on the all that snow, set up roadblocks so peeps couldn't hike and not open.

[mlsgraham]

thanks peoples.

As Mount Snow is goin for it tonight, loks like they may be open before Killington so I'm gonna try and follow the snow.

Have 2 days off 6th and 7th Nov and also 14th and 15th so hoping to get a few days in! The fact it was bastard freezing this morning in Jersey has given me some hope..................

[johnny the jibber]

28 here this morning, it is supposed to be 24 tonight...

[JerseyGuy]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Looks much better than I was expecting it to be.

Also looking at going to Mount Snow if it opens before killington. Would that be worth it or is that a bad question to be asking on here?

Mount Snow uses fan guns on some of the terrain, so the quality may be a little bit better, but they will surely have less terrain open than Killington. They will also have mostly flat to generally easy intermediate terrain open. Killington will have a few short steep trails open such as Mouse Trap and Upper Downdraft. And also some "real" intermediate terrain such as Upper East Fall and Rime. Another thing, Mount Snow is likely to be more crowded with some of the hype they had last year early season, and also there less amount of terrain.

I wouldn't count on ANYONE opening much before Killington, if at all.


Killington also opened trails such as Upper Chute, Lower Chute and the Snowdon Quad, MTS, Lower East Fall (pic below) and the Canyon Quad and more very shortly after opening.

In case you're wondering, mlsgraham, this is all SkippySnowSpeak for "Yes, Mount Snow will open before K-Mart, and the quality will be better".

The rest is static.

[sLoPeS]

mount snows opening was $$$$$ last year. went up sunday and waited for them to drop the ropes on chute around late morning..........did not disappoint. good coverage side to side and top to bottom on 2 main runs (didnt get over to carinthia). i remember the fan guns still going on the lower part of standard (?). they turned into a mist and that kinda crapped things up down there. chute was absolutely fantastic and soft powdery snow turns were had for a few hours. the first of many sunny sundays last year. got up to K the next sunday and thought it was pretty good (although we all should have been making turns there the week prior...) had to scrape some frost off the car this am. think ill take the summer wax off this week and start the transition into ski season.........YEA BUDDY!

[salesmanny]

Traditionally I have always started my ski season Thanksgiving weekend at Killington, but last year I was so disillusioned with so much of what Powdr was saying and doing prior to Thanksgiving that I decided to go to Mount Snow over Thanksgiving, instead. Even though Killington is a much better mountain than Mount Snow, my skiing experience at Mount Snow last Thanksgiving was superb and I'm very glad I went there. I was extremely impressed with the quality and quantity of snow that they made (they had just invested in 101 new fanjet snow guns, and they really are amazing!), and I was also very impressed with the attitude of the management and new owners of that mountain. It was quite a contrast to what was happening at Killington, where Powdr management was cutting services, opening later, rediculously increasing the cost of lessons for kids, totally eliminating discounted bulk ski club tickets, and pissing off all of their regular customers (except Skiing Snow). Powdr's attitude last year basically was "take it or leave it, and if you don't like it, too f***ing bad." Mount Snow, Sugarbush, and Okemo all capitalized on Powdr's stupidity, as they took the opposite approach and increased their skier numbers while Killington's numbers dropped precipitously. Last winter, Killington should have had a banner year, but Powdr worked hard pissing off just about everyone I know, and they really dug themselves into a hole.

I could be wrong, but in 2008/09 I think Powdr will be gradually changing many of their policies, after their collossal mismanagement and screw-ups last year. They paid a heavy price for their arrogance and stupidity, in both lost revenue and lost prestige, and they started a downward trend that could only have negative ramifications for their future. This year they're starting the season by reversing some of last year's policies. Last year at this time, Powdr's official attitude about snowmaking over Thanksgiving was that Killington was not going to make a lot of snow unless it was cold enough for it to last, because it was too expensive to make it if it wouldn't last. They were willing to give up early season business because they arrogantly thought they didn't need it and that it wouldn't impact on business later in the season. On this and many other things, they were dead wrong. Now fast forward to 2008... I don't hear anyone talking like they did last year when Thanksgiving is brought up. My guess is that Powdr finally has come to the realization that they need to attract and retain customers in order to make money, and it will only happen if they reverse some of last year's policies. This year, especially with the economy so weak, Killington needs to be able to depend on its regular customers and traditional die hards, because we're the ones who will prioritize skiing and be there repeat customers, while many others will just look at the sport as an expensive luxury that they can live without during these tough economic times. If I'm correct, my guess is that Killington will be one of the first mountains in Vermont to open this season, and they'll probably pump out a ton of early season snow, as a way of making a statement in their effort to reverse the downward spiraling trend that they, themselves, caused. They've also reversed another policy of last year with the announcement of their new "Club Card," which will be offered through ski clubs (through the Ski Councils) in place of discounted bulk lift tickets that they refused to offer last year.

For this Thanksgiving I plan on coming back to Killington, even though Mount Snow was so good last year. I'm hoping that the pendulum has begun swinging back towards the middle, and I truly prefer skiing at Killington, so I'll be back. If Powdr is willing to make enough early season snow and groom it properly, and if I can use the discounted "Club Card" passes that I'm about to buy for myself and my family, then I'll definitely be back. However, if they screw up again this year, they'll really have a long way to go to dig out of the hole that they'll be in. The next step is up to Powdr...

[skiingsnow]

Last year at this time, Powdr's official attitude about snowmaking over Thanksgiving was that Killington was not going to make a lot of snow unless it was cold enough for it to last, because it was too expensive to make it if it wouldn't last. They were willing to give up early season business because they arrogantly thought they didn't need it and that it wouldn't impact on business later in the season.

I have already pointed out to you that this is not what Chris Nyberg said what so ever. You misunderstood comments directed at Snowshed and Ramshead. They were commited to all out snowmaking on Skye Peak, Killington Peak, and Snowdon Mountain, and they did indeed do just that. And they also starting snowmaking on Snowshed over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend.

[salesmanny]

Last year at this time, Powdr's official attitude about snowmaking over Thanksgiving was that Killington was not going to make a lot of snow unless it was cold enough for it to last, because it was too expensive to make it if it wouldn't last. They were willing to give up early season business because they arrogantly thought they didn't need it and that it wouldn't impact on business later in the season.

I have already pointed out to you that this is not what Chris Nyberg said what so ever. You misunderstood comments directed at Snowshed and Ramshead. They were commited to all out snowmaking on Skye Peak, Killington Peak, and Snowdon Mountain, and they did indeed do just that. And they also starting snowmaking on Snowshed over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend.

Skiingsnow, I beg to disagree with you. On October 18th, 2007, Chris Nyberg was quoted in The Mountain Times regarding the upcoming early season snowmaking as follows: "At the moment, the plan is for snowmaking to begin at altitude in the Killington Peak area once stable temperatures permit. There will be no forced efforts in marginal temperatures to create “top of K1 Gondola to bottom of Snowshed” skiing prior to December 14."

I interpreted that as meaning that until December 14, 2007, Powdr's snowmaking efforts were going to be limited and not 100%, and certainly not "all out efforts" as you stated above. You are correct in stating that they planned on making snow on Skye Peak, Killington Peak, and Snowdon, but you neglected to also mention what Chris Nyberg said in his interview: "once stable temperatures permit." To me, that meant that if the temperatures were not "stable" (meaning continuously below freezing) over the Thanksgiving period, they wouldn't continue with their efforts, and certainly not the manner that ASC had made snow in previous years. Nyberg was quite clear in his meaning when he said "there will be no forced efforts in marginal temperatures." The emphasis should be on the words "forced efforts" and "marginal temperatures." Through December 14th, 2007, Powdr's plans for snowmaking last year only represented a partial effort, certainly not an "all out" effort that you describe.

[skiingsnow]

I have already pointed out to you that this is not what Chris Nyberg said what so ever. You misunderstood comments directed at Snowshed and Ramshead. They were commited to all out snowmaking on Skye Peak, Killington Peak, and Snowdon Mountain, and they did indeed do just that. And they also starting snowmaking on Snowshed over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend.

Skiingsnow, I beg to disagree with you. On October 18th, 2007, Chris Nyberg was quoted in The Mountain Times regarding the upcoming early season snowmaking as follows: "At the moment, the plan is for snowmaking to begin at altitude in the Killington Peak area once stable temperatures permit. There will be no forced efforts in marginal temperatures to create “top of K1 Gondola to bottom of Snowshed” skiing prior to December 14."

I interpreted that as meaning that until December 14, 2007, Powdr's snowmaking efforts were going to be limited and not 100%, and certainly not "all out efforts" as you stated above. You are correct in stating that they planned on making snow on Skye Peak, Killington Peak, and Snowdon, but you neglected to also mention what Chris Nyberg said in his interview: "once stable temperatures permit." To me, that meant that if the temperatures were not "stable" (meaning continuously below freezing) over the Thanksgiving period, they wouldn't continue with their efforts, and certainly not the manner that ASC had made snow in previous years. Nyberg was quite clear in his meaning when he said "there will be no forced efforts in marginal temperatures." The emphasis should be on the words "forced efforts" and "marginal temperatures." Through December 14th, 2007, Powdr's plans for snowmaking last year only represented a partial effort, certainly not an "all out" effort that you describe.

"the plan is for snowmaking to begin at altitude in the Killington Peak area once stable temperatures permit."

On Oct 18 he said snowmaking would BEGIN for the season, when stable temps permitted. As in 1 night here, 1 night there wasn't going to allow snowmaking to begin. When a sizable window opened a short time later, in late October, Killington began the snowmaking efforts for the few day window. Things warmed up for a few days then the cold returned and all out snowmaking efforts began, and on all sort of terrain other than what has become the "normal" opening day terrain of the past few years. ............. Nothing about snowmaking during the season, just that the snowmaking to get the season underway wouldn't begin until temps were stable and would have enough cold so operations could begin and operations could continue laying down a sustainable base. Yah know, not start snowmaking for the ski season in a fashion like Mount Snow's test where it ran so little in one time it all melts the next day.

"there will be no forced efforts in marginal temperatures to create “top of K1 Gondola to bottom of Snowshed” skiing prior to December 14."

No forced efforts on Snowshed/Ramshead, prior to Dec 14. They of course started blowing snow down there the night of November 23rd.

1:11 AM November 24th, Snowshed Base


9:09 AM November 24th, Snowshed Slope