Conversation with Killington rep at Albany Ski Expo

[Geoff]

I wouldn't come back to the board if I was powdr, there's very little to be gained - still way too much latent negativity here, though in defense of the board much of it well-deserved.

If people have a question, they should just use the website, write an email, or pick up the phone.

I think that might have been true 12 months ago. The new owners appear to have backtracked on many of their most controversial changes. I'm still unclear what they're doing with the Killington brand since they do so little to promote and market their business. The Access Road is a ghost town at the moment. It was a ghost town last April 27th. If you own a business in town, that has to be worrying. If you're a weekend warrior, you're probably pretty happy with most of what they're doing.

After the Nyberg "Wanted" poster last April, I doubt we'll ever see a Killington presence here.

[Kskiier1]

1. Did you catch the name of the person you were speaking with?
2. Based on my knowledge, the site is not blocked, at least for reading
3. Aside from the personal attacks and name calling, they got what they earned last year in the way of criticism
4. Even if senior management doesn't read the board, or claims not to read the board, loads of people in the organization read it along with lots of people in the community. They can ignore the board if they like, but I'd call that their problem, not ours.
5. If they want to be loved, they should all get dogs

Bubba, the woman I spoke to at the Albany ski expo was Nancy. She definitely told me that they do not have the ability to see Kzone at work on the computers in her office. My whole point is not that we should forget Powdr's mistakes or arrogance of last year, but rather, that this might be a good opportunity to move forward so that more positive communication can take place, and put the past behind us. If that happens, we all benefit. There is no question in my mind that our clout and the myriad of negative opinions about the way Powdr handled things last year led to declines in skier numbers and lots of bad PR for them. I believe that they've begun to see the light, but there's still a long way to go. When I brought up the issue of extending the ski season, Nancy said it wasn't economically a good move for them because most of the people skiing at that time of the year had season's passes, so no new money was coming in to offset the additional expenses. I countered that with three points: 1) a longer season would lead to the sale of more seasons passes and therefore more incoming revenue; 2) they should also consider offering a spring pass starting in March, like ASC used to do. If the season lasts longer, they'll sell more passes that way; and 3) the great PR that they'll get by staying open longer than any other ski area in the east will help them throughout the year as people plan their skiing vacations with the knowledge that Killington is going to make enough snow to have skiing well into late spring.

I recently left Killington after 8 years. When I first started there in 2000, and for two years after, you couldn't even pull up the killington website, let alone anything else. Most employees at Killington only have restricted internet access, which allows them to look at the chamber of commerce website, area lodges and hotels, that sort of thing. For the most part the only employees with full internet access are managers, supervisors, and most full time year 'round employees.

That being said, all of a sudden one day last spring / early summer they shut off the zone for everyone with unrestricted access. Nobody would ever say why, and I can't really remember what topics were hot on here then, but I'm sure that it really wasn't more than the usual posting styles. The funny thing is, you could go to ebay and shop, but not view the zone. I guess they were really peeved about something that someone said. I'm sure that a few of the upper management people still have the ability to look here (Tom, Chris, V.P.'s, etc), but not anyone else.

[Bubba]

1. Did you catch the name of the person you were speaking with?
2. Based on my knowledge, the site is not blocked, at least for reading
3. Aside from the personal attacks and name calling, they got what they earned last year in the way of criticism
4. Even if senior management doesn't read the board, or claims not to read the board, loads of people in the organization read it along with lots of people in the community. They can ignore the board if they like, but I'd call that their problem, not ours.
5. If they want to be loved, they should all get dogs

Bubba, the woman I spoke to at the Albany ski expo was Nancy. She definitely told me that they do not have the ability to see Kzone at work on the computers in her office. My whole point is not that we should forget Powdr's mistakes or arrogance of last year, but rather, that this might be a good opportunity to move forward so that more positive communication can take place, and put the past behind us. If that happens, we all benefit. There is no question in my mind that our clout and the myriad of negative opinions about the way Powdr handled things last year led to declines in skier numbers and lots of bad PR for them. I believe that they've begun to see the light, but there's still a long way to go. When I brought up the issue of extending the ski season, Nancy said it wasn't economically a good move for them because most of the people skiing at that time of the year had season's passes, so no new money was coming in to offset the additional expenses. I countered that with three points: 1) a longer season would lead to the sale of more seasons passes and therefore more incoming revenue; 2) they should also consider offering a spring pass starting in March, like ASC used to do. If the season lasts longer, they'll sell more passes that way; and 3) the great PR that they'll get by staying open longer than any other ski area in the east will help them throughout the year as people plan their skiing vacations with the knowledge that Killington is going to make enough snow to have skiing well into late spring.

I recently left Killington after 8 years. When I first started there in 2000, and for two years after, you couldn't even pull up the killington website, let alone anything else. Most employees at Killington only have restricted internet access, which allows them to look at the chamber of commerce website, area lodges and hotels, that sort of thing. For the most part the only employees with full internet access are managers, supervisors, and most full time year 'round employees.

That being said, all of a sudden one day last spring / early summer they shut off the zone for everyone with unrestricted access. Nobody would ever say why, and I can't really remember what topics were hot on here then, but I'm sure that it really wasn't more than the usual posting styles. The funny thing is, you could go to ebay and shop, but not view the zone. I guess they were really peeved about something that someone said. I'm sure that a few of the upper management people still have the ability to look here (Tom, Chris, V.P.'s, etc), but not anyone else.

I had it confirmed for me yesterday via PM that KZone is blocked except for a select few. The funny thing is, people read it at home and post from home and say things from home that they'd never say from work were they allowed to read and post there. Managements can be so stupid sometimes in how they attempt to control communication. Laughable, to say the least.

[skip]

I had it confirmed for me yesterday via PM that KZone is blocked except for a select few. The funny thing is, people read it at home and post from home and say things from home that they'd never say from work were they allowed to read and post there. Managements can be so stupid sometimes in how they attempt to control communication. Laughable, to say the least.

I beg to differ, and I do so within the context of my previous comments (and my experience as a flack once at least partially responsible for Killington's image).

There are only a tiny handful of people at Killington - or any ski area - that have a need-to-know what's happening on any websites during the course of their business day. They are not being paid to hang out on the web and follow what's happening here - they're being paid to perform certain jobs, and the vast majority of those jobs have no relationship to what's said here.

Secondly, organizations, in order to be successful, must speak with one voice - I don't care whether the organization is a ski area, a government agency or a not-for-profit. That means ensuring that the messages delivered on behalf of the organization reflect the company's values, and that only happens when the number of spokespeople is limited to those authorized to speak on the company's behalf. You could say that that sacrifices the truth and eliminates the ability of a whistle blower to act, but both arguments are specious. There is nothing that prevents an individual Killington employee from posting here in their off hours. But the company has no obligation to support such actions while those employees are on the clock.

IMO, the POWDR crew has made some absolutely boneheaded moves since assuming control of Killington. They will either prosper, or suffer, from the consequences of those actions. That's their business. But limiting access to websites that potentially distract their employees, while said employees are on the clock, is certainly within their prerogative, and I can't say that I disagree with this decision. Say what you want about POWDR's management of Killington, but taking them to task over this particular point is unfair.

[Bubba]

I had it confirmed for me yesterday via PM that KZone is blocked except for a select few. The funny thing is, people read it at home and post from home and say things from home that they'd never say from work were they allowed to read and post there. Managements can be so stupid sometimes in how they attempt to control communication. Laughable, to say the least.

I beg to differ, and I do so within the context of my previous comments (and my experience as a flack once at least partially responsible for Killington's image).

There are only a tiny handful of people at Killington - or any ski area - that have a need-to-know what's happening on any websites during the course of their business day. They are not being paid to hang out on the web and follow what's happening here - they're being paid to perform certain jobs, and the vast majority of those jobs have no relationship to what's said here.

Secondly, organizations, in order to be successful, must speak with one voice - I don't care whether the organization is a ski area, a government agency or a not-for-profit. That means ensuring that the messages delivered on behalf of the organization reflect the company's values, and that only happens when the number of spokespeople is limited to those authorized to speak on the company's behalf. You could say that that sacrifices the truth and eliminates the ability of a whistle blower to act, but both arguments are specious. There is nothing that prevents an individual Killington employee from posting here in their off hours. But the company has no obligation to support such actions while those employees are on the clock.

IMO, the POWDR crew has made some absolutely boneheaded moves since assuming control of Killington. They will either prosper, or suffer, from the consequences of those actions. That's their business. But limiting access to websites that potentially distract their employees, while said employees are on the clock, is certainly within their prerogative, and I can't say that I disagree with this decision. Say what you want about POWDR's management of Killington, but taking them to task over this particular point is unfair.

Skip, I have no problem with them blocking this website as long as they block most websites that people might frequent during their time on the clock. The point I take issue with, and I don't know whether this is true or not in this case, is when a company (say Powdr) blocks access to THIS website specifically, thinking that they will control communication or limit what their employees read by doing so. I also have no problem with a company limiting who can speak for them, thus controlling the message. Were an employee to post critical comments as an employee, or post critical information at any time, that would be grounds for disciplinary action. I am aware of one individual who got canned last year for posting as an employee thus supposedly representing the company. That was entirely fair.

[rogman]

Sounds like China's efforts to control the WWW. Whatever gains in productivity Killington garners by blocking the site are overshadowed by magnifying the importance of the Kzone voice. It's blocked, it must be important, it must be true. Forbidden fruit tastes sweetest. Like Tiananmen Square, how long before tanks start rolling down the Access Road?

[skip]

Like Tiananmen Square, how long before tanks start rolling down the Access Road?

I'd be happy to see tricycles rolling down the access road again!

[SkiDork]

re: What Skip said...

My company blocks a bunch of sites (thankfully not KZone yet) which they feel would be counter productive to their mission, and/or have potential damaging software that could infect the corporate LAN, or make them potentially liable to litigation for harassment (read porn) etc.

For POWDR? I understand completely why they block KZone. It's so directly related to their business, but in a mostly negative way that its akin to a porn site for them.

Bubba - you work from home so you have no real experience with corporate web blocking policies. So take it from someone who does..

[JerseyGuy]

I wouldn't come back to the board if I was powdr, there's very little to be gained - still way too much latent negativity here, though in defense of the board much of it well-deserved.

Hey, now... I resent that remark! Many of us have gone out of our way to employ overt negativity as much as possible!

Seriously, though: I really don't blame the current K-Clowns for no longer posting here. Fact it, the kast of Killington kharacters we used to have here on a semi-regular basis (Tommy Boy and Maverick, mostly) were neither intellectually nor temperamentally inclined to match wits, trade facts or even banter with most of the people here on this board.

To paraphrase Rick Pitino, as far as Killington communications are concerned: Skip King is not walking through that door, fans. Steve Wright is not walking through that door, and Pres Smith is not walking through that door. And if you expect them to walk through that door, they're going to be gray and old... or working somewhere else.

And as far as website blocking is concerned: pul-leeze. Every privately-held company has every right to block whatever websites they like. Killington has every right to block its employees from viewing (and more importantly, participating in) K-Zone. But if this website is being specifically singled out because the current K-Mart regime doesn't want its employees to see outside criticism (or more importantly, share in said criticism), well... that's just lame, and ultimately ineffectual, as employees will be even more tempted to eat the Forbidden Fruit after working hours. Rogman's comparison to China's efforts to control web traffic is apt...

[RENO]

re: What Skip said...

My company blocks a bunch of sites (thankfully not KZone yet) which they feel would be counter productive to their mission, and/or have potential damaging software that could infect the corporate LAN, or make them potentially liable to litigation for harassment (read porn) etc.

For POWDR? I understand completely why they block KZone. It's so directly related to their business, but in a mostly negative way that its akin to a porn site for them.

Bubba - you work from home so you have no real experience with corporate web blocking policies. So take it from someone who does..

Same here. Luckily not KZone or Youtube , but I can't look at certain pictures on KZone that link to photo sites like Photobucket. Sometimes it's amazing we can even do our job there's so much security around everything. Even when I work from home I have all kinds of security programs that I personally use and then there's several I had to load for work. I even have one program (CISCO Clean Access Agent) that scans my PC when I connect to the LAN at work and makes sure there's a valid security program running on my PC like Norton, Trend, etc... before allowing me to do anything...

[Win]

As an owner and/or manager of a ski area it is sometimes really frustrating to read a lot of what is posted on blogs like this. But I learned a long time ago that perception is reality and it is best to address criticism head on. If facts are wrong correct them. If criticism is justified accept it. But above all all be truthful and explain your position honestly and clearly even if it is not popular. I read the blogs and answer and post occasionally because I think this is a valuable source of information. It is not representative of everyone, but it if an important source of feedback. It is also important to realize that those who blog are passionate about skiing and riding and one needs to recognize and listen to the passionate ones.

[twilkas]

As an owner and/or manager of a ski area it is sometimes really frustrating to read a lot of what is posted on blogs like this. But I learned a long time ago that perception is reality and it is best to address criticism head on. If facts are wrong correct them. If criticism is justified accept it. But above all all be truthful and explain your position honestly and clearly even if it is not popular. I read the blogs and answer and post occasionally because I think this is a valuable source of information. It is not representative of everyone, but it if an important source of feedback. It is also important to realize that those who blog are passionate about skiing and riding and one needs to recognize and listen to the passionate ones.

I would imagine you'd have to balance the potential for message boards becoming a gigantic time suck against your participation. If you had to come on here and correct every misunderstanding of how things really worked, you would likely cut into your productive time.

It is nice to hear from those truly in the know, so thanks for the participation.
-t

[MrsG]

As an owner and/or manager of a ski area it is sometimes really frustrating to read a lot of what is posted on blogs like this. But I learned a long time ago that perception is reality and it is best to address criticism head on. If facts are wrong correct them. If criticism is justified accept it. But above all all be truthful and explain your position honestly and clearly even if it is not popular. I read the blogs and answer and post occasionally because I think this is a valuable source of information. It is not representative of everyone, but it if an important source of feedback. It is also important to realize that those who blog are passionate about skiing and riding and one needs to recognize and listen to the passionate ones.

I would imagine you'd have to balance the potential for message boards becoming a gigantic time suck against your participation. If you had to come on here and correct every misunderstanding of how things really worked, you would likely cut into your productive time.

It is nice to hear from those truly in the know, so thanks for the participation.
-t

. . . and, thanks for understanding our passion

[tyrolean_skier]

Like Tiananmen Square, how long before tanks start rolling down the Access Road?

I'd be happy to see tricycles rolling down the access road again!

That used to be a fun weekend and many sharehouse members used to come up for that summer weekend just for that event. Bet the Access Road businesses enjoyed the crowds as well. Good times!!!