Branding, Strategy and Vision

johnny the jibber · Post by **johnny the jibber** » Mar 3rd, '10, 19:12

pico is rumored to be for sale.

ozzy · Post by **ozzy** » Mar 3rd, '10, 19:14

johnny the jibber wrote:pico is rumored to be for sale.

and Chris Nyberg allegedly is reloacting to Copper..

Highway Star · Post by **Highway Star** » Mar 3rd, '10, 19:20

I don't think Pico is for sale (anything is for sale at the right price).

I do think they are doing a very good job over there, the secondary lifts are running on a regular basis, snowmaking and grooming I've seen have been good, and they are certainly drawing a crowd.

I do think the interconnect is fully on the table. It's been discussed. I'm sure they have investigated plans that could be done on a reasonable budget. I personally witnessed (and have video of) Nyberg towing people behind a snowcat, which was confirmed as Cummings and family out touring the area. Only question is, will they do that, or upgrade lifts like the SRT or revamp Snowdon with a new lift or install an upper mountain lift, first......

skiingsnow · Post by **skiingsnow** » Mar 3rd, '10, 19:23

Highway Star wrote:I don't think Pico is for sale (anything is for sale at the right price).

I do think they are doing a very good job over there, the secondary lifts are running on a regular basis, snowmaking and grooming I've seen have been good, and they are certainly drawing a crowd.

I do think the interconnect is fully on the table. It's been discussed. I'm sure they have investigated plans that could be done on a reasonable budget. I personally witnessed (and have video of) Nyberg towing people behind a snowcat, which was confirmed as Cummings and family out touring the area. Only question is, will they do that, or upgrade lifts like the SRT or revamp Snowdon with a new lift or install an upper mountain lift, first......

Great Question, now get us some answers!!

Good post.

Mister Moose · Post by **Mister Moose** » Mar 3rd, '10, 20:11

rogman wrote: Killington's strategy vis-a-vis Pico would be very different if it were actually a competitor and Pico would not fare nearly as well. POWDR says it is profitable, and I accept them at their word. I confess to a bit of skepticism, but only because no one else has made any money there in a long time.

I'm sure Pico is getting the benefit of shared resources, economies of scale and a friendly G&A allocation from Mama Killington, and this would not be the case if Pico was independent.

Highway Star wrote:
I do think the interconnect is fully on the table. ... Only question is, will they do that, or upgrade lifts like the SRT or revamp Snowdon with a new lift or install an upper mountain lift, first......

Snowdon and SRT work fine, at least fine enough. An upper mountain early season lift or a classy rebuild of the Peak Lodge would be a true improvement as opposed to a shiny bauble.

rogman · Post by **rogman** » Mar 3rd, '10, 20:48

johnny the jibber wrote:pico is rumored to be for sale.

And will it be renamed the Double Deuce Ski Area?

Big Bob · Post by **Big Bob** » Mar 3rd, '10, 21:38

Heard one of the Snowden lifts to be replaced with a detachable quad this summer. 6 pack was considered, but trail capacity is to light.

Dr. NO · Post by **Dr. NO** » Mar 3rd, '10, 21:43

Big Bob wrote:Heard one of the Snowden lifts to be replaced with a detachable quad this summer. 6 pack was considered, but trail capacity is to light.

GAWD, I would hope a 6 pack is NOT in the works. People can't load a quad. Imagine 1) the BS of beginners, kids and dummies loading a 6 pack. A 6 minute ride would be 30. 2) Snowdon with 3 times the people on it, especially in the Mixing bowl (sorry GEOFF, not bowel).

Lifties are now shaking their heads with all the a-holes falling off the quad. Need the mud puddle to give the riders a fear of falling off to ensure the chair keeps moving.

Snowjob · Post by **Snowjob** » Mar 4th, '10, 01:26

I hear the idea of keeping Pico separate. It's a big mountain with a small mountain feel. However, the fact is it's owned by the same company. Managers are paid to create a vision.

How does keeping this place as an outsider, on its own, fit into a vision? Where is this going? How does it make sense to have a web site that looks like it's own place, and not part of one of the biggest ski resorts on the east coast that is a mere seven miles drive away?

My original offering was "Ski here (Pico) in the morning, and then visit our big sister (Killington) in the afternoon for free and experience the biggest (Beastiest, if you want to keep the current theme) in the east."

That's a vision that makes sense. With Pico in the fold, there would be no ski area like it on the entire east coast. I know some people want to keep Pico on its own, and I'm not sure that it will stay that way forever.

Bart · Post by **Bart** » Mar 4th, '10, 08:24

I guess the point is that you don't agree w/ "the vision"

but you can't deny that there is a vision...which in and of itself is great

I have been skiing Pico for about 10 years and have never seen it as busy as it has been this year...don't know if they are making any money, lift tickets are $25 less than K, Pico has to be much less expensive to run than K, so i would think their doing alright...and they probably aren't trying to compete w/ K anyway, they compete w/ other mountains in the 40-60 trail range or similar price range ??

I give Nyberg a lot of credit, seems like they(Powdr) are good listeners, intuitive and the organization is incredibly nimble in revising strategy and then executing...I hope we don't lose Nyberg ?

rogman · Post by **rogman** » Mar 4th, '10, 08:45

A new lift for Snowdon is inevitable. It has some of the best intermediate terrain on the mountain, something Killington sorely lacks. The number of trails versus the actual uphill capacity far exceeds that available at any of the other peaks. That area also gets a bit more snow. And Doc, what are you talking about? Loading a 6 pack or a HSQ would be far easier than a fixed grip, and the numbers aren't 6X that of a fixed grip quad. The icing issue is the main concern. It does seem that the fixed grips do de-ice a bit easier, but I also believe that newer technology may do a better job of handling these events. Despite its length, the SPE doesn't seem to take as long to de-ice as some of the older lifts.

robrules · Post by **robrules** » Mar 4th, '10, 09:00

Dr. NO wrote:
Big Bob wrote:Heard one of the Snowden lifts to be replaced with a detachable quad this summer. 6 pack was considered, but trail capacity is to light.
GAWD, I would hope a 6 pack is NOT in the works. People can't load a quad. Imagine 1) the BS of beginners, kids and dummies loading a 6 pack. A 6 minute ride would be 30. 2) Snowdon with 3 times the people on it, especially in the Mixing bowl (sorry GEOFF, not bowel).

Lifties are now shaking their heads with all the a-holes falling off the quad. Need the mud puddle to give the riders a fear of falling off to ensure the chair keeps moving.

Doesn't seem to be an issue at Stratton who has four six packs. But they are way more organized and actually seem to have trained their lifties and line staff on how to get a group together for a full chair well before they get to the gate (the gate itself helps regulate flow too). And the offramps seem better maintained too, so no issues with ruts and ice that make people fall at the top.

Snowjob · Post by **Snowjob** » Mar 4th, '10, 09:01

Well, I mentioned in the first post I'm a little dull.

I don't see the vision!

Generally, the management of an organization describes who they are and where they are going. Lately, the Beast is who Killington is. I have not heard how Pico fits into this. It seems to be left off to the side, and Pico's web site seems to reinforce a lone-wolf that has nothing to do with Killington. Perhaps I'm missing something?

Stormchaser · Post by **Stormchaser** » Mar 4th, '10, 09:05

Had two friends last weekend use K50 and Groupon tickets at Pico, skied Pico all morning on a Pico ticket, and then hit K on the same ticket in the afternoon. The system isnt the limitation...

KillingtonYearRound · Post by **KillingtonYearRound** » Mar 4th, '10, 10:27

I always thought of it as the other way around. The issues isn't Pico taking biz away from Mother Killington. It's more about Mother Killington's ability to take biz away from Pico. The brass at the mothership seem to have a terminal case of the snow is better here. It's snow. The same snow that falls at Pico, Okemo, etc. Yes, there is plenty of terrain back at Mom's but at the end of the day it's the same snow. So with that erroneous belief the misguided marketing plans begin. Their assumption is way out of touch with the realities and perceptions of the average snow lover.

Finally, is The Beast thing a joke or what? That's all they got? High powered resort experts and that's it? The future is in a past? A past that's long gone? That's too funny. The other MAJOR problem with The Beast campaign is that it's strictly focused on the winter months. What does The Beast do in the summer? Sleep? Powdr thinks that Killington is above it all and that there is no competition. Really? And Okemo is shrinking? If Mother Killington has to worry about Pico then something is seriously wrong.

KillingtonZone.com

Branding, Strategy and Vision

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