Top 10 Ways to Revitalize Killington

[Dwight]

Mad River Glen? Oh, please. They have found themselves a clever marketing niche which works for them, but wouldn't work for anyone else. And let me emphasize: their marketing is brilliant.

Did you say marketing? Not allowing snowboards is not a marketing strategy, it's a decision by the shareholders. The only marketing I have ever seen from them is a bumper sticker and well if that's your definition of brilliant marketing, I'm a little disappointed. I would love to hear what they do marketing wise that has you so excited.

Marketing Wise, what has Killington done that got people so excited?

Oh yeah, they touted themselves as the beast all seasno and then fell completely flat on their face April 20th.

My question had nothing to do with Killington. I wanted to know about MRG. Also, there is a difference between marketing and operations which the board fails to see quite often.

[SPORE]

Mad River Glen? Oh, please. They have found themselves a clever marketing niche which works for them, but wouldn't work for anyone else. And let me emphasize: their marketing is brilliant.

Did you say marketing? Not allowing snowboards is not a marketing strategy, it's a decision by the shareholders. The only marketing I have ever seen from them is a bumper sticker and well if that's your definition of brilliant marketing, I'm a little disappointed. I would love to hear what they do marketing wise that has you so excited.

Marketing Wise, what has Killington done that got people so excited?

Oh yeah, they touted themselves as the beast all seasno and then fell completely flat on their face April 20th.

My question had nothing to do with Killington. I wanted to know about MRG. Also, there is a difference between marketing and operations which the board fails to see quite often.

And I wanted to know what Killington has done.

Marketing and Ops are two different departments for one company, Killington. So Marketing touts something all season and then Ops shuts it down. Don't you think the left should know what the right is doing?

[Dwight]

Mad River Glen? Oh, please. They have found themselves a clever marketing niche which works for them, but wouldn't work for anyone else. And let me emphasize: their marketing is brilliant.

Did you say marketing? Not allowing snowboards is not a marketing strategy, it's a decision by the shareholders. The only marketing I have ever seen from them is a bumper sticker and well if that's your definition of brilliant marketing, I'm a little disappointed. I would love to hear what they do marketing wise that has you so excited.

Marketing Wise, what has Killington done that got people so excited?

Oh yeah, they touted themselves as the beast all seasno and then fell completely flat on their face April 20th.

My question had nothing to do with Killington. I wanted to know about MRG. Also, there is a difference between marketing and operations which the board fails to see quite often.

And I wanted to know what Killington has done.

Marketing and Ops are two different departments for one company, Killington. So Marketing touts something all season and then Ops shuts it down. Don't you think the left should know what the right is doing?

In a perfect world. All I'm saying is that marketing can only control so much, yet they always seem to get the blame.

[JerseyGuy]

Also, there is a difference between marketing and operations which the board fails to see quite often.

Interesting line.

Fact is, there SHOULDN'T be a difference between marketing and operations, conceptually speaking.

When there IS a difference, you get "The Beast"... and "PowdrKillington", circa late April, 2010.

[SPORE]

Did you say marketing? Not allowing snowboards is not a marketing strategy, it's a decision by the shareholders. The only marketing I have ever seen from them is a bumper sticker and well if that's your definition of brilliant marketing, I'm a little disappointed. I would love to hear what they do marketing wise that has you so excited.

Marketing Wise, what has Killington done that got people so excited?

Oh yeah, they touted themselves as the beast all seasno and then fell completely flat on their face April 20th.

My question had nothing to do with Killington. I wanted to know about MRG. Also, there is a difference between marketing and operations which the board fails to see quite often.

And I wanted to know what Killington has done.

Marketing and Ops are two different departments for one company, Killington. So Marketing touts something all season and then Ops shuts it down. Don't you think the left should know what the right is doing?

In a perfect world. All I'm saying is that marketing can only control so much, yet they always seem to get the blame.

Marketing may be getting the blame, but in reality people's anger is directed at Killington.

Simply put, Killington did not execute against its marketing plan for this past winter. Killington did not live up to the "Beast" that they portrayed in the Marketing plan it presented to consumers.

[Dwight]

Fact is, there SHOULDN'T be a difference between marketing and operations, conceptually speaking.

I agree, I just think it's funny how this board makes villains out of certain people, when you or I have no idea who made what decision.

[Mister Moose]

I'm sure that many maketing decisions get made by marketing. Deciding which radio stations to be on, or what to put in this week's "Drift" doesn't go too far up the ladder. But choosing to run with "The Beast" as a year long major branding, or "Ski until May 2nd, conditions permitting" on the other hand, goes pretty far up the ladder. Marketing can't just make up May 2nd without consulting ops and mgmt. I would bet Rogman's bar tab for a week that both the decision to run with those campaigns, and the decision to close early were made higher up than marketing. I don't blame marketing for both, I don't blame them for either.

[Bubba]

Fact is, there SHOULDN'T be a difference between marketing and operations, conceptually speaking.

I agree, I just think it's funny how this board makes villains out of certain people, when you or I have no idea who made what decision.

Actually, I think most people here have concluded that the decision to shut down early was made in Utah. Everyone knows Marketing was not responsible and that Tom, et. al. had nothing to do with the decision.

Killington's marketing strategy has been a question mark for years with confused branding and poor communication. The brand starts at the top and has to permeate the organization from top to bottom. The implementation of a branding strategy is a long term effort - you have to believe in the brand and stick with it for years. Killington hasn't been good at that for at least the past 10 - 15 years, bouncing around trying to find itself. Some people (Tom for one, Chris Nyberg for another) catch the sh*t because they're the public face of the resort. Nobody blames Jeff Temple even though he's Mountain Ops because he's not a public figure and stays mostly in the background. The public faces take the credit so they also take the blame. That's life in the big city...

[chewbacca]

K-Marketing doesn't make when to close decisions. That is done by the big brains in Utah. The Utahinians tell Killington management what they would like to do and management says, "Ok". Op's gears to that. Then marketing tries to put some lipsick on the pig. Simple.

So last year was THE BEAST campaign. Genius at work. I wonder what the new brand will be for next year? Maybe THE MONSTER?

[Mister Moose]

So last year was THE BEAST campaign. Genius at work. I wonder what the new brand will be for next year? Maybe THE MONSTER?

I'm going to say that next year the Beast will be back in full green atire. What gets changed in marketing is the website.

As a decision, going with "The Beast" was not the mistake. It was failing to over deliver after they under promised.

Snowmaking, (except throwing 20% more on Superstar) was acceptable to everyone, customer service improved, food stayed the same, grooming was ok but still room for improvement, seeded bumps were well received and hopefully return bigger and earlier next year, staffing levels still show a lean operation, and lift ops kept things running for the most part. They even shifted operation hours for the late spring. It was the closing ahead of the announced date with adequate snow (and spring pass customers complaining) that left a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

In ranking after ranking, the entity known as "The Killington access road" scores high as the party place to be in ski country in the east. It is a major attraction for the resort. POWDR would be well served to cultivate this, help the restaurants and bars prosper and grow. Closing earlier than other resorts doesn't help.

[Geoff]

K-Marketing doesn't make when to close decisions. That is done by the big brains in Utah. The Utahinians tell Killington management what they would like to do and management says, "Ok". Op's gears to that. Then marketing tries to put some lipsick on the pig. Simple.

So last year was THE BEAST campaign. Genius at work. I wonder what the new brand will be for next year? Maybe THE MONSTER?

Maybe. Or maybe Chris Nyberg looked at the 10-day forecast on April 20th and decided not to risk his bonus on 10 days of bad weather. Based on all the data available publicly, there's no way Killington was much better than flat year-over-year and they were probably down some. Diesel fuel costs went down but there wasn't much other good news for the business. It's pretty likely that Chris Nyberg had an operating profit target he had to hit to make his nut. He decided to get up from the table and cash in his chips rather than risk any of the year's operating profit.

[Geoff]

So last year was THE BEAST campaign. Genius at work. I wonder what the new brand will be for next year? Maybe THE MONSTER?

I'm going to say that next year the Beast will be back in full green atire. What gets changed in marketing is the website.

As a decision, going with "The Beast" was not the mistake. It was failing to over deliver after they under promised.

Snowmaking, (except throwing 20% more on Superstar) was acceptable to everyone, customer service improved, food stayed the same, grooming was ok but still room for improvement, seeded bumps were well received and hopefully return bigger and earlier next year, staffing levels still show a lean operation, and lift ops kept things running for the most part. They even shifted operation hours for the late spring. It was the closing ahead of the announced date with adequate snow (and spring pass customers complaining) that left a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

In ranking after ranking, the entity known as "The Killington access road" scores high as the party place to be in ski country in the east. It is a major attraction for the resort. POWDR would be well served to cultivate this, help the restaurants and bars prosper and grow. Closing earlier than other resorts doesn't help.

If "The Beast" was such a great marketing strategy, why did the traffic counts on the Access Road continue to decline?

The problem is obviously the lack of a high speed lift on Snowdon.

[Bubba]

So last year was THE BEAST campaign. Genius at work. I wonder what the new brand will be for next year? Maybe THE MONSTER?

I'm going to say that next year the Beast will be back in full green atire. What gets changed in marketing is the website.

As a decision, going with "The Beast" was not the mistake. It was failing to over deliver after they under promised.

Snowmaking, (except throwing 20% more on Superstar) was acceptable to everyone, customer service improved, food stayed the same, grooming was ok but still room for improvement, seeded bumps were well received and hopefully return bigger and earlier next year, staffing levels still show a lean operation, and lift ops kept things running for the most part. They even shifted operation hours for the late spring. It was the closing ahead of the announced date with adequate snow (and spring pass customers complaining) that left a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

In ranking after ranking, the entity known as "The Killington access road" scores high as the party place to be in ski country in the east. It is a major attraction for the resort. POWDR would be well served to cultivate this, help the restaurants and bars prosper and grow. Closing earlier than other resorts doesn't help.

If "The Beast" was such a great marketing strategy, why did the traffic counts on the Access Road continue to decline?

The problem is obviously the lack of a high speed lift on Snowdon.

You can't necessarily measure a marketing campaign by one year's results, especially when the campaign is trying to regain core customers who turned to other ski areas. The Beast campaign was not a failure, rather the failure was in failing to match the operation with the message. That will cost them going forward, regardless of whose bonus might have been at risk this year.

By the way, I've been told that skier visits were up this year by several thousand. I believe, however, that the skier visit count includes Pico which I believe saw a significant increase due to its pricing. That means Killington was flat or even down over last year.

[Mister Moose]

If "The Beast" was such a great marketing strategy, why did the traffic counts on the Access Road continue to decline?

The problem is obviously the lack of a high speed lift on Snowdon.

I didn't say it was a great marketing strategy. I said it wasn't a mistake. It awoke a prior image, and resonated amongst the clientele. I think they have enough invested in it to trot it out for at least one more year.

Declining traffic counts go far deeper than the slogan de jour, as well you know.

And there is a high speed lift on Snowdon. It gets you to the top in a mere 9.75 minutes. Way faster than skinning up while you wait for the deice crew on the detachables.

[flatnhard]

1.
2. Diffently need to lengthen the ski season again. Making Super Star the spring trail is to costly. Plenty of other trails to do spring skiing that could be buried with a good snow pack.