Trump Presidency

[Rez]

I never said I'd go around shooting at anyone. I merely said it might be time to exercise my constitutional right which was given to all of us to fight against tyranny. An increase in gun license applications and purchase of firearms is a good message to the politicians.

So we went through 2 years of hearing nothing but Trump Colluded with the Russians. What we found out is that there was no evidence to support that. What we're finding out now is that high level government officials with political motives (to discredit and remove the president) probably lied and broke the law. Hasn't been proven yet but it like it will be. So at the VERY LEAST the Democrats perpetrated a narrative that they knew wasn't true and government officials likely broke the law. All for one goal. To discredit and remove a duly elected President. Now we are just seeing round 2 of the very same thing. Except this time the law breaker was Joe Biden. It's okay to spend two years and 10 mill to investigate alleged Trump corruption but its not okay to investigate alleged Biden corruption. The Democrats are so obsessed with removed Trump they have not time for solving real problems. And their poster child of a state is burning, bankrupt, in the dark, streets flooded with homeless, feces and needles with the wealthy fleeing because of high taxes.

[Rez]

Not to mention the Democratic disgrace which was the Kavanaugh hearings. Another witch hunt full of lies and inconsistencies.

[Kpdemello]

You make two good points. First, that democrats look like they're just trying to play "gotcha" with Trump since they sort of whiffed on the Russia investigation. This new investigation has an air of "the boy who cried wolf" or at least it looks that way to some. Many of the Democrats who have been calling for his impeachment since the day he took office have next to zero credibility now. Notably, however, their leader in the house, Pelosi, is not one of those.

Second, that Democrats have done little to push their agenda and that these investigations have been a huge distraction for everyone in Washington. To me that's a net plus. Politicians being distracted fighting one another means they are less likely to pass some awful legislation that's going to hurt me somehow.

Where we disagree is that I think most of these investigations are merited based on questionable activity by Trump or the people he hired or appointed. He's been bumbling through the first term of his Presidency since he took office, and his many missteps have led him to the place he's in today. If you had a Democrat President who acted like Trump has, the Republicans would be doing the same thing to him. Just look at what they did to Clinton, for example. (and, to be consistent, I would say that Clinton put himself in position to be impeached with his behavior).

[Rez]

You make two good points. First, that democrats look like they're just trying to play "gotcha" with Trump since they sort of whiffed on the Russia investigation. This new investigation has an air of "the boy who cried wolf" or at least it looks that way to some. Many of the Democrats who have been calling for his impeachment since the day he took office have next to zero credibility now. Notably, however, their leader in the house, Pelosi, is not one of those.

Second, that Democrats have done little to push their agenda and that these investigations have been a huge distraction for everyone in Washington. To me that's a net plus. Politicians being distracted fighting one another means they are less likely to pass some awful legislation that's going to hurt me somehow.

Where we disagree is that I think most of these investigations are merited based on questionable activity by Trump or the people he hired or appointed. He's been bumbling through the first term of his Presidency since he took office, and his many missteps have led him to the place he's in today. If you had a Democrat President who acted like Trump has, the Republicans would be doing the same thing to him. Just look at what they did to Clinton, for example. (and, to be consistent, I would say that Clinton put himself in position to be impeached with his behavior).

KPD, they did more than just whiff on the Mueller investigation. The whole thing was a conspiracy based on lies and the Democrats knew it and didn't care. Only one thing matters - discredit Trump, remove Trump before he can get re-elected again. So now they're onto round 2 with the Ukraine accusations which is more BS.

Really, so you want Congress distracted with trying to discredit the President so they can't enact any legislation that you think will hurt you? What legislation would that be?

[Mister Moose]

Where we disagree is that I think most of these investigations are merited based on questionable activity by Trump or the people he hired or appointed. He's been bumbling through the first term of his Presidency since he took office, and his many missteps have led him to the place he's in today. If you had a Democrat President who acted like Trump has, the Republicans would be doing the same thing to him.

If we had a Democrat president who strengthened the border, improved the economy, reduced unemployment to 50 year lows, drove ISIS out from their Caliphate, she'd be re-elected in a heartbeat.

You're looking for perfection. And somehow you think "But he uses 8th grade language." "But he was accused of having sex with (fill in the blank)" But he said he could shoot someone on 5th Ave." "But he said he has a great friendship with Kim Jung Un" "But he said some criminal Mexicans were rapists" outweighs the real accomplishments the administration can point to.

Just imagine what the last 3 years might have accomplished if the 2 parties worked in the best interest of the country, instead of running to microphones and chasing inflated pointless accusations. (Of course we needed to teach the country how better trade, tax and border policy could achieve positive results)

Compare the preparation, contingency plans and competency of the recent Syria strike on Baghdadi, vs Carter's failed rescue attempt of the Iranian hostages. Who spoke more diplomatically and eloquently? Who had impeccable marital credentials? Who had past government experience? And who bungled the economy and military ops? (While Carter won't rank very high on an effective presidency, I think he has been one of the highest post-office humanitarian records ever)

Results matter.

[madhatter]

You make two good points. First, that democrats look like they're just trying to play "gotcha" with Trump since they sort of whiffed on the Russia investigation. This new investigation has an air of "the boy who cried wolf" or at least it looks that way to some. Many of the Democrats who have been calling for his impeachment since the day he took office have next to zero credibility now. Notably, however, their leader in the house, Pelosi, is not one of those.

Second, that Democrats have done little to push their agenda and that these investigations have been a huge distraction for everyone in Washington. To me that's a net plus. Politicians being distracted fighting one another means they are less likely to pass some awful legislation that's going to hurt me somehow.

Where we disagree is that I think most of these investigations are merited based on questionable activity by Trump or the people he hired or appointed. He's been bumbling that's your opinion and hardly grounds for relentless investigations aimed at removing him from office...the fact that both russia and kavanugh were total farces and this Ukraine thing looks to be more of the same is besides the point...through the first term of his Presidency since he took office, and his many missteps have led him to the place he's in today. If you had a Democrat President who acted like Trump has, the Republicans would be doing the same thing to him. Just look at what they did to Clinton, for example. (and, to be consistent, I would say that Clinton put himself in position to be impeached with his behavior).

no he hasn't...he's been rather successful actually...you may not like some or any of the things he;s done but he's named two SCOTUS judges, numerous fed judges, ended the individual mandate, lowered obama care premiums, rolled back regulations and presided over a roaring economy...unemployment is down particularity in minority classes and wages are up...t is at all time highs...Consumer confidence is high, we still haven't entered any new wars and have scaled back others....he pressed NATO to pay more, sanctions are crippling iran, he made more progress w NK than any previous administration...the wall is going up, border crossings are way down, mexico is helping...there's a new trade deal waiting for do nothing dems to ratify....

and he's about to expose the D criminal cabal for what it is....and destroy what very little credibility D's and the MSM have left in the process...

all that and more and all while being hamstrung by the MSM, the D congress, the bureaucratic state and even some within his own party...

say what you want but the man's ability to persevere and overcome has been nothing short of spectacular thus far...

[madhatter]

Where we disagree is that I think most of these investigations are merited based on questionable activity by Trump or the people he hired or appointed. He's been bumbling through the first term of his Presidency since he took office, and his many missteps have led him to the place he's in today. If you had a Democrat President who acted like Trump has, the Republicans would be doing the same thing to him.

If we had a Democrat president who strengthened the border, improved the economy, reduced unemployment to 50 year lows, drove ISIS out from their Caliphate, she'd be re-elected in a heartbeat.

You're looking for perfection. And somehow you think "But he uses 8th grade language." "But he was accused of having sex with (fill in the blank)" But he said he could shoot someone on 5th Ave." "But he said he has a great friendship with Kim Jung Un" "But he said some criminal Mexicans were rapists" outweighs the real accomplishments the administration can point to.

Just imagine what the last 3 years might have accomplished if the 2 parties worked in the best interest of the country, instead of running to microphones and chasing inflated pointless accusations. (Of course we needed to teach the country how better trade, tax and border policy could achieve positive results)

Compare the preparation, contingency plans and competency of the recent Syria strike on Baghdadi, vs Carter's failed rescue attempt of the Iranian hostages. (While Carter won't rank very high on an effective presidency, I think he has been one of the highest post-office humanitarian records ever)

Results matter.

or to hillary's "what difference does it make" beghazi debacle...and the imaginary youtube video that caused it...

or maybe to obama's pink line in the sand in syria...

[Kpdemello]

If we had a Democrat president who strengthened the border, improved the economy, reduced unemployment to 50 year lows, drove ISIS out from their Caliphate, she'd be re-elected in a heartbeat.

She'd also be investigated mercilessly by Republicans for shady Russian and Ukranian dealings. These things you're saying have little to do with the things I said.

You're looking for perfection. And somehow you think "But he uses 8th grade language." "But he was accused of having sex with (fill in the blank)" But he said he could shoot someone on 5th Ave." "But he said he has a great friendship with Kim Jung Un" "But he said some criminal Mexicans were rapists" outweighs the real accomplishments the administration can point to.

I've never said any of this.

Just imagine what the last 3 years might have accomplished if the 2 parties worked in the best interest of the country, instead of running to microphones and chasing inflated pointless accusations. (Of course we needed to teach the country how better trade, tax and border policy could achieve positive results)

Just imagine if money grew on trees and houses were made of gingerbread.

Compare the preparation, contingency plans and competency of the recent Syria strike on Baghdadi, vs Carter's failed rescue attempt of the Iranian hostages. Who spoke more diplomatically? Who had impeccable marital credentials? Who had past government experience? And who bungled the economy and military ops? (While Carter won't rank very high on an effective presidency, I think he has been one of the highest post-office humanitarian records ever)

Why are we talking about Carter? I'm not sure how much Trump or Carter had to do with the planning and execution of these operations. I think you're imputing too much credit to the President for the successes and failures of our military. In any case, I don't really view Carter as a terribly effective President. Why not compare Trump to Reagan? Reagan had many successes and still managed to not act and sound like a buffoon on the national stage.

Results matter.

Yes, they do. Like I said, Trump has made a lot of mistakes, and he has created a lot of his own problems. That's a result that matters.

[Kpdemello]

Really, so you want Congress distracted with trying to discredit the President so they can't enact any legislation that you think will hurt you? What legislation would that be?

I mean, ideally I want Congress doing productive things, but that's not the world we live in. In the real world, Congress does a lot of crappy things, like spend money, increase the deficit, etc. I think the tax bill, for example, on the whole was a net negative for me. I lost out on SALT deductions which the cuts barely offset, so I benefited very little. On the other hand, the deficit has increased dramatically, which will have impacts in the future. So, given the choice between Congress doing something bad and Congress being distracted by nonsense, I'll choose the latter.

[Rez]

Where we disagree is that I think most of these investigations are merited based on questionable activity by Trump or the people he hired or appointed. He's been bumbling through the first term of his Presidency since he took office, and his many missteps have led him to the place he's in today. If you had a Democrat President who acted like Trump has, the Republicans would be doing the same thing to him.

If we had a Democrat president who strengthened the border, improved the economy, reduced unemployment to 50 year lows, drove ISIS out from their Caliphate, she'd be re-elected in a heartbeat.

You're looking for perfection. And somehow you think "But he uses 8th grade language." "But he was accused of having sex with (fill in the blank)" But he said he could shoot someone on 5th Ave." "But he said he has a great friendship with Kim Jung Un" "But he said some criminal Mexicans were rapists" outweighs the real accomplishments the administration can point to.

Just imagine what the last 3 years might have accomplished if the 2 parties worked in the best interest of the country, instead of running to microphones and chasing inflated pointless accusations. (Of course we needed to teach the country how better trade, tax and border policy could achieve positive results)

Compare the preparation, contingency plans and competency of the recent Syria strike on Baghdadi, vs Carter's failed rescue attempt of the Iranian hostages. Who spoke more diplomatically and eloquently? Who had impeccable marital credentials? Who had past government experience? And who bungled the economy and military ops? (While Carter won't rank very high on an effective presidency, I think he has been one of the highest post-office humanitarian records ever)

Results matter.

Amen Mister Moose. Trump isn't perfect He can be immature and obnoxious. But he understands the real world, he's a problem solver, he understand leverage, he's a fighter. But most importantly I do believe that he wants to improve the country. I don't think he's in it to enrich himself, he's already super rich. Despite his faults, he is more of a true Patriot than just about any other politician in Washington.

[Mister Moose]

If we had a Democrat president who strengthened the border, improved the economy, reduced unemployment to 50 year lows, drove ISIS out from their Caliphate, she'd be re-elected in a heartbeat.

She'd also be investigated mercilessly by Republicans for shady Russian and Ukranian dealings. These things you're saying have little to do with the things I said.

You're looking for perfection. And somehow you think "But he uses 8th grade language." "But he was accused of having sex with (fill in the blank)" But he said he could shoot someone on 5th Ave." "But he said he has a great friendship with Kim Jung Un" "But he said some criminal Mexicans were rapists" outweighs the real accomplishments the administration can point to.

I've never said any of this.

Just imagine what the last 3 years might have accomplished if the 2 parties worked in the best interest of the country, instead of running to microphones and chasing inflated pointless accusations. (Of course we needed to teach the country how better trade, tax and border policy could achieve positive results)

Just imagine if money grew on trees and houses were made of gingerbread.

Compare the preparation, contingency plans and competency of the recent Syria strike on Baghdadi, vs Carter's failed rescue attempt of the Iranian hostages. Who spoke more diplomatically? Who had impeccable marital credentials? Who had past government experience? And who bungled the economy and military ops? (While Carter won't rank very high on an effective presidency, I think he has been one of the highest post-office humanitarian records ever)

Why are we talking about Carter? I'm not sure how much Trump or Carter had to do with the planning and execution of these operations. I think you're imputing too much credit to the President for the successes and failures of our military. In any case, I don't really view Carter as a terribly effective President. Why not compare Trump to Reagan? Reagan had many successes and still managed to not act and sound like a buffoon on the national stage.

Results matter.

Yes, they do. Like I said, Trump has made a lot of mistakes, and he has created a lot of his own problems. That's a result that matters.

A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-nd KPD neatly parses and argues minutae and misses the entire greater point.

[Kpdemello]

A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-nd KPD neatly parses and argues minutae and misses the entire greater point.

No, I get your point. Your point is that Trump's successes in your opinion outweigh his negative attributes. I'm not sure how that was in any way responsive to my post, in which I stated basically that Trump has created a lot of his own problems.

I do happen to disagree with your point, though. I think you've overstated his successes and have not given sufficient weight to his failures.

[Mister Moose]

A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-nd KPD neatly parses and argues minutae and misses the entire greater point.

No, I get your point. Your point is that Trump's successes in your opinion outweigh his negative attributes. I'm not sure how that was in any way responsive to my post, in which I stated basically that Trump has created a lot of his own problems.

I do happen to disagree with your point, though. I think you've overstated his successes and have not given sufficient weight to his failures.

OK, list Trump's successes and his failures.

[madhatter]

Really, so you want Congress distracted with trying to discredit the President so they can't enact any legislation that you think will hurt you? What legislation would that be?

I mean, ideally I want Congress doing productive things, but that's not the world we live in. In the real world, Congress does a lot of crappy things, like spend money, increase the deficit, etc. I think the tax bill, for example, on the whole was a net negative for me. I lost out on SALT deductions which the cuts barely offset, so I benefited very little. On the other hand, the deficit has increased dramatically, which will have impacts in the future. So, given the choice between Congress doing something bad and Congress being distracted by nonsense, I'll choose the latter.

SALT deductions...ya mean federal subsidies so your town can have a huge budget? boo hoo cut yer town;s budget and you can cut yer town's taxes......I mean congrats yer the rich you wanted to tax...we tried to tell you that....EVERY D candidates proposals would tax you far more heavily...and not just your income and SALT...everything, everywhere...

and in the end your bottom line increased...so what exactly are you complaining about?

the budget deficit has increased but to say dramatically is rather alarmist....

[Kpdemello]

OK, list Trump's successes and his failures.

Look I'm sorry but I don't really have the time or the desire to do that. I mean frankly at this point there's enough to write a pretty thick book about it. Hell, just print up all my past posts from this thread and you'll have enough bathroom reading material to last you a long time.