AOC

[deadheadskier]

Never met a single gay person in my life who claimed their sexuality is a result of their personal choice. Most say they knew from a very young age that that's who they naturally are and often pursued hetero relations due to societal pressures before coming out.

[Guy in Shorts]

Love the fact the LGBT community welcomed the Quakers to join them. Seems to be an odd fit but different strokes.

[K42]

Many people would disagree with you that being LGBTQ is a choice. I would be one of them

I'll elaborate. I think you're born that way, but it's up to the individual to act on it. Acting on it is what I disagree with.

As to Christians supporting LGBTQ, they would have to be open to the idea that some aspects of scriptural cannon are not the infallible word of God. Clearly the epistles of the apostle Paul make it clear that homosexuality is a sin, as do some passages in the old testament. However, are those epistles and passages really the word of God?

Christians believe the epistles are the word of God. More precisely, all scripture is breathed out by God through the disciples.

I was raised an evangelical Christian and the LGBTQ movement is one of the things that had me strongly questioning things. It just didn't make sense to me that this would be a sin. It harms no one and there's no logical reason for it to be wrong. To me, it does not seem to fit with Jesus' golden rule of do onto others. It's also notable that Jesus is never recorded anywhere as having condemned homosexuality, at least not that I can recall. So in my own personal faith, I revere what Jesus said, but I don't put much credence in the other books of the Bible. I do think they have some value for teaching, as Jesus said, but they aren't infallible. So for me, the LGBTQ movement not only isn't inconsistent with my faith, it in fact is very much in line with it because that movement is about helping those who have been persecuted, marginalized, and ill-treated.

There are plenty of sins that 'harm no one' in the context above. I think the point is the sin harms God. Jesus isn't recorded condemning slavery outright, but it doesn't make it okay. I suppose you could argue it falls under the golden rule. At the end of the day, we were made in the image of God as man or woman and charged with multiplying. We cannot fulfil what we're charged to with if we choose to act on LGBTQ desires.

I also echo the sentiment that many LGBTQ will say that their orientation was not a choice but how they were born. There's apparently some scientific support for that as well. Who am I to question that?

I don't disagree. My church also welcomes the LGBTQ community, just like they welcome me and other sinners like me. We all sin, we all have skeletons, but the hope is that we improve ourselves to be more pleasing to God.

You lost me there, gay kids don't get to choose being gay or straight, they are born that way just like they are born with whatever color skin they have. Go back to the 80s with that attitude, it's just a different form or racism.

It's not a 'different form of racism', it's just a viewpoint that you don't share.

Your different point of homophobia, and your passing on ur hateful rhetoric to ur children. Yet another reason why the world will be such a batter place when the bad boomers are gone.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Many people would disagree with you that being LGBTQ is a choice. I would be one of them

I'll elaborate. I think you're born that way, but it's up to the individual to act on it. Acting on it is what I disagree with.

As to Christians supporting LGBTQ, they would have to be open to the idea that some aspects of scriptural cannon are not the infallible word of God. Clearly the epistles of the apostle Paul make it clear that homosexuality is a sin, as do some passages in the old testament. However, are those epistles and passages really the word of God?

Christians believe the epistles are the word of God. More precisely, all scripture is breathed out by God through the disciples.

I was raised an evangelical Christian and the LGBTQ movement is one of the things that had me strongly questioning things. It just didn't make sense to me that this would be a sin. It harms no one and there's no logical reason for it to be wrong. To me, it does not seem to fit with Jesus' golden rule of do onto others. It's also notable that Jesus is never recorded anywhere as having condemned homosexuality, at least not that I can recall. So in my own personal faith, I revere what Jesus said, but I don't put much credence in the other books of the Bible. I do think they have some value for teaching, as Jesus said, but they aren't infallible. So for me, the LGBTQ movement not only isn't inconsistent with my faith, it in fact is very much in line with it because that movement is about helping those who have been persecuted, marginalized, and ill-treated.

There are plenty of sins that 'harm no one' in the context above. I think the point is the sin harms God. Jesus isn't recorded condemning slavery outright, but it doesn't make it okay. I suppose you could argue it falls under the golden rule. At the end of the day, we were made in the image of God as man or woman and charged with multiplying. We cannot fulfil what we're charged to with if we choose to act on LGBTQ desires.

I also echo the sentiment that many LGBTQ will say that their orientation was not a choice but how they were born. There's apparently some scientific support for that as well. Who am I to question that?

I don't disagree. My church also welcomes the LGBTQ community, just like they welcome me and other sinners like me. We all sin, we all have skeletons, but the hope is that we improve ourselves to be more pleasing to God.

You lost me there, gay kids don't get to choose being gay or straight, they are born that way just like they are born with whatever color skin they have. Go back to the 80s with that attitude, it's just a different form or racism.

It's not a 'different form of racism', it's just a viewpoint that you don't share.

Your different point of homophobia, and your passing on ur hateful rhetoric to ur children. Yet another reason why the world will be such a batter place when the bad boomers are gone.

I'm a millennial. Teaching my children to love others like they love themselves is not hateful rhetoric. I'd encourage you to consider reading Matthew 7 ... it's a good lesson on avoiding the urge to point out the speck in someone else's eye while ignoring the plank in your own.

[Bubba]

AOC said she might quit politics, as some centrist Democrats blame progressives for House losses, NYT says

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgntp

[easyrider16]

That's cool, but in that district wouldn't someone equally as liberal be elected? Also, if she wanted it, she'd have the job for life. Seems unlikely the former waitress would give that up, but then I guess Congresswomen probably have lots of opportunities to cash in if they want to sell out.

Simpler solution might be for her to moderate the rhetoric and move a step toward the middle.

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[XtremeJibber2001]

Simpler solution might be for her to moderate the rhetoric and move a step toward the middle.

This. She won’t though because in that district someone more liberal will come along and take her seat.

[deadheadskier]

Also, if she wanted it, she'd have the job for life. Seems unlikely the former waitress would give that up,

Kind of an out of touch thing and borderline rude thing to say. I'm no big fan nor am I a detractor of AOC. I'm a progressive, but I do find many of her positions impractical.

But she is no dummy. She did well at BU graduating cum laude with a dual major in International relations and economics. That is not exactly a Bachelors degree that make it easy to find a professional job out of school for a minority female from the Bronx without great connections; especially at the time she graduated in 2011 during a crap job market. She interned for Ted Kennedy at school and was inspired to potentially pursue politics because of it. Became the youngest elected Congresswoman in US history. Impressive

I also look at AOC and see a bit of myself (though no where near the barriers being a white male coming from a middle class upbringing) and how I had to bartend or wait tables off and on all the way into my early 30s before I found a solid, professional career footing. Now in my 40s, I perform in the top 1% of my industry and get contacted at least once a week with offers to join other med tech companies.

I do agree with your position that she needs to moderate and shift towards the center. I'd like to see both sides do that more. Politics used to be played mainly between the 40 yard lines. Now it seems like the deep safeties covering only their own red zone have way too much influence over the rest of the field.

[easyrider16]

Might be rude but it's honest. She strikes me as smart and I know she's well educated. But for someone who was struggling through school as a waitress, to walk away from a six figure job, her first real job, is pretty difficult unless you have something else lined up. Had she gone the traditional route she likely would be working her way up to that level, but she certainly wouldn't start there, and it would probably be a long road.

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[asher2789]

Agreed, activities in state-sponsored school is state action. We'd have to discuss specific issues. On the bathroom question, I've said before that I think this one is silly. Are we really debating where each gender should go to pee? Is this really an issue of fundamental rights?

It's an extreme example used to demonstrate my concern. I can provide other examples. Gay pride month ... should this be celebrated among elementary school students? Music advocating for LGBTQ ... should this be permitted in schools (I'd similarly be oppose to other suggestive music, too). How about school sports teams? There are others.

As for two girls kissing at school, I don't see how that is state sponsored action? But I still go back to the point that this is not persecution, it's advocating beliefs you disagree with. That's not persecution, it's speech.

It's not state sponsored. However, the progressiveness of our society would place pressure on teachers to look the other way (in my opinion) in an effort to not appear anti-LGBTQ. Again, talking about elementary aged kids here.

I don't have kids so I'm not qualified to discuss what a person should discuss with their kids and when. I'd like to think that if I had kids, I would try to address these kinds of issues with them at an early age, albeit in some limited way.

You have to do what is right for you. My family's view is children that are not of dating age have no business discussing sex or learning about it. Certainly not at elementary school age. That's not to say I think there should be a moratorium on this kind of talk, but there's a time and a place. I think, as a parent, I should get to decide when they learn about it. Not from a school that wants to celebrate or advocate for LGBT either directly through school groups/campaigns or indirectly through the music they play.

Another question - how do you feel about Barrett? I'm watching the Senate hearings and she is very impressive, saying all the right things. I do think she's more conservative than what I'd prefer, but it's hard to be sure (which is commendable because she's not supposed to reveal her personal beliefs).

Aside from the GOP being total hypocrites on the SCOTUS nomination, which they never should have made this bed for themselves in the first place, I have no issues with Barrett. She's qualified and the constitution allows for her nomination and the vote on the same.

I can understand the bathroom angle of your argument, but two girls kissing at school? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and saying that there is something wrong with that is no different than being racist. So yes I think that is an unreasonable expectation. The world has gay people in it and two girls have as much a right to kiss each other as a girl and guy do.

Personally, I don't see why any elementary aged kids should be kissing. Me holding this opinion is a far cry from being a racist. I don't see the connection at all. Kids in Middle school or High school? College? Have at it I don't care.

ive been gay since i was born, and bullied relentlessly. i knew since i was a young kid that i was "different" and that there was something "wrong" with me. i was held up against a window on the school bus in a chokehold when i was NINE for being perceived as gay (i didnt know what everyone else knew about me until i was 18...) definitely something i didnt choose, but i thank god every day that i am free of the suffocating and ridiculous gender/sex standards and expectations of society...

i dont give a flying f*** what the scripture says. this is a SECULAR country with freedom of and from religion. WE DO NOT LIVE IN A CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY. barrett and the GOP traitors want to turn this country into a christian theocracy with prosperity gospel and subservience of women as the key beliefs. funny how the bible has stories warning of worshiping golden calves...

as for the pearl clutching karen-ness of wHaTaBoUt ThE cHiLdReN do you think they dont see breeders kissing in everyday life? you dont think they see breeder couples? no? what the hell is the difference if they see me and my significant other living life just like the breeders do? why does gay pride offend you so f*** much??!?!?! what are you so afraid of?!?! that your kid might be gay?! oh! the horror! OH MY GOD HOW CAN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CHILDREN HANDLE THE CONCEPT OF GAY COUPLES!!!!! its like there are no children being *raised* by gay couples? LMFAO

and even more pearl clutching over children kissing, like none of us ever kissed each other as young children. dude. the breeders egg this sh*t on with their spawn talking about how their preschoolers have "boyfriends" and "girlfriends". my first "kiss" was hetero and i was preschool aged with another kid i was having a playdate with. normal behavior that adults make weird because its adults who have weird sexual hangups that they project on others... not innocent children. also, straight kids sometimes playfully kiss each other in same sex situations as they are figuring out life... again, totally normal behavior that adults make weird (maybe more so in girls than boys because of societal pressures).

god you breeders are something else. so. f***. dumb. and hateful. the "what about the children" pearl clutching is what gets me the most, like you dont give a flying f*** about the health and welfare of gay kids or you wouldnt be a homophobic asshole.

FYI i would of been a LOT better off if i spent my formative years in an environment that supported LGBTQ people instead of one that actively went out of their way to harm LGBTQ people. what you advocate for is HARM based on your backwards religious beliefs in a ~5,000 year old superstition. HARD PASS.

[asher2789]

Also, if she wanted it, she'd have the job for life. Seems unlikely the former waitress would give that up,

Kind of an out of touch thing and borderline rude thing to say. I'm no big fan nor am I a detractor of AOC. I'm a progressive, but I do find many of her positions impractical.

But she is no dummy. She did well at BU graduating cum laude with a dual major in International relations and economics. That is not exactly a Bachelors degree that make it easy to find a professional job out of school for a minority female from the Bronx without great connections; especially at the time she graduated in 2011 during a crap job market. She interned for Ted Kennedy at school and was inspired to potentially pursue politics because of it. Became the youngest elected Congresswoman in US history. Impressive

I also look at AOC and see a bit of myself (though no where near the barriers being a white male coming from a middle class upbringing) and how I had to bartend or wait tables off and on all the way into my early 30s before I found a solid, professional career footing. Now in my 40s, I perform in the top 1% of my industry and get contacted at least once a week with offers to join other med tech companies.

I do agree with your position that she needs to moderate and shift towards the center. I'd like to see both sides do that more. Politics used to be played mainly between the 40 yard lines. Now it seems like the deep safeties covering only their own red zone have way too much influence over the rest of the field.

AOC's real smarts come from bartending. she reads people better than anyone, and no fancy university can teach that (although she's "book smart" too). only hard work in the service industry gives someone that level of psychological and social insight.

im convinced *that* is the real reason why shes as successful as she is, her emotional and social intelligence far exceeds someone such as pelosi or hillary - the triangulating old guard of elites. shes so hated not because of her relatively generic left wing views (medicare for all and green new deal are communism!!!!! /s) but because she's one of the few working class people successfully persuing politics.

[easyrider16]

There should be a minimum age and a maximum age for all Federal elected offices. AOC is too young and inexperienced, but you've also got 80 year olds who should have retired a long time ago. I guess term limits would probably solve both of those problems.

[boston_e]

ive been gay since i was born, and bullied relentlessly. i knew since i was a young kid that i was "different" and that there was something "wrong" with me. i was held up against a window on the school bus in a chokehold when i was NINE for being perceived as gay (i didnt know what everyone else knew about me until i was 18...) definitely something i didnt choose, but i thank god every day that i am free of the suffocating and ridiculous gender/sex standards and expectations of society...

i dont give a flying f*** what the scripture says. this is a SECULAR country with freedom of and from religion. WE DO NOT LIVE IN A CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY. barrett and the GOP traitors want to turn this country into a christian theocracy with prosperity gospel and subservience of women as the key beliefs. funny how the bible has stories warning of worshiping golden calves...

as for the pearl clutching karen-ness of wHaTaBoUt ThE cHiLdReN do you think they dont see breeders kissing in everyday life? you dont think they see breeder couples? no? what the hell is the difference if they see me and my significant other living life just like the breeders do? why does gay pride offend you so f*** much??!?!?! what are you so afraid of?!?! that your kid might be gay?! oh! the horror! OH MY GOD HOW CAN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CHILDREN HANDLE THE CONCEPT OF GAY COUPLES!!!!! its like there are no children being *raised* by gay couples? LMFAO

and even more pearl clutching over children kissing, like none of us ever kissed each other as young children. dude. the breeders egg this sh*t on with their spawn talking about how their preschoolers have "boyfriends" and "girlfriends". my first "kiss" was hetero and i was preschool aged with another kid i was having a playdate with. normal behavior that adults make weird because its adults who have weird sexual hangups that they project on others... not innocent children. also, straight kids sometimes playfully kiss each other in same sex situations as they are figuring out life... again, totally normal behavior that adults make weird (maybe more so in girls than boys because of societal pressures).

god you breeders are something else. so. f***. dumb. and hateful. the "what about the children" pearl clutching is what gets me the most, like you dont give a flying f*** about the health and welfare of gay kids or you wouldnt be a homophobic asshole.

FYI i would of been a LOT better off if i spent my formative years in an environment that supported LGBTQ people instead of one that actively went out of their way to harm LGBTQ people. what you advocate for is HARM based on your backwards religious beliefs in a ~5,000 year old superstition. HARD PASS.

[boston_e]

There should be a minimum age and a maximum age for all Federal elected offices. AOC is too young and inexperienced, but you've also got 80 year olds who should have retired a long time ago. I guess term limits would probably solve both of those problems.

I believe there is a minimum age... 25 yo for congress and 30 yo for senate.

[easyrider16]

There should be a minimum age and a maximum age for all Federal elected offices. AOC is too young and inexperienced, but you've also got 80 year olds who should have retired a long time ago. I guess term limits would probably solve both of those problems.

I believe there is a minimum age... 25 yo for congress and 30 yo for senate.

Ah yes, you're right. Since it's not 1789 anymore though and most people tend to live well beyond their 50s, we should probably add a decade or two to those minimums. For the Presidency, too, while we're at it.