Palestine

[throbster]

...

[Humpty Dumpty]

One thing is certain, Iron Dome is an incredible invention ...

https://twitter.com/AAhronheim/status/1 ... 42374?s=20

https://twitter.com/AAhronheim/status/1 ... 99819?s=20

So is my penis.

[easyrider16]

This is spiraling out of control, apparently, with the Israelis stepping up their military action.

I still think Trump should bear some of the blame, here. His blatant pro-Israel policy, widely criticized by many of the most experienced diplomats at the time, set the stage for this. He favored one side over the other, and contributed to an environment of heightened tension. You can blame Biden all you want but Trump spent four years f*cking this up and Biden has just started. Results from diplomatic decisions take time to come to fruition. Biden inherited the mess, he didn't create it.

Here's a pretty salient commentary from over a year ago:

30 former foreign policy and national security officials from three administrations published an “open letter” harshly criticizing the Trump Israeli-Palestinian peace plan.

Why it matters: The signatories, who served under George W. Bush, Clinton and Obama, criticized the plan as harming U.S. interests, giving Israel “a green light” for annexation in the West Bank and possibly turning Israel into a binational state.

Cite:https://www.axios.com/us-diplomats-nati ... 9fbef.html

Here's some additional background reading and analysis:
https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/art ... ine-policy
https://www.usnews.com/news/world-repor ... n-violence
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-u ... n-conflict

[yiddle on da fiddle]

proof positive...your a flaming asshole. An apparently ignorant one ta boot...

[easyrider16]

proof positive...your a flaming asshole. An apparently ignorant one ta boot...

Apparently you didn't do any of the background reading... not surprised, just disappointed, MadHatterFiddle.

[yiddle on da fiddle]

No need... an asshole smells right across the room....

[yiddle on da fiddle]

NON Hatter...out.

[daytripper]

What is different with Hamas attacking Israel compared to Al Qaeda attacking the US on 911? They are both terrorist groups attacking a sovereign nation. Remember, the USA considers Hamas a terrorist group. Israel is a US ally. Seems pretty much a closed case that we should support Israel. Hamas purposely conducts their attacks from civilian buildings to create outrage when Israel retaliates.

[easyrider16]

The difference is that Palestinians were living in Palestine when the U.K. decided to take their territory away from them and give it to the Israelis. The recent violence is in response to Israeli's trying to basically kick a bunch of Palestinians out of their homes. It's a whole lot different than what Al Qaeda did on 911, as they attacked a country thousands of miles away for no good reason.

The Palestinians see this as a fight for the survival of their homes and families. I might not like the methods Hamas uses, but they are a small group with little in the way of military hardware, certainly nothing like what the Israelis have, and their methods are based on their capability, which is very minimal compared to the Israelis.

Btw, I'm not saying either side is right or wrong (I happen to think both sides are in the wrong).

[yiddle on da fiddle]

Pff...ray fukin Charles...can see this for what it is. Take that shmata off yer fukin head , greasyrider.

[XtremeJibber2001]

The difference is that Palestinians were living in Palestine when the U.K. decided to take their territory away from them and give it to the Israelis.

I don't think an independent Palestine country/state has ever existed. Didn't the Palestinians reject the offer to make a country of Palestine when Ottoman was broken up?

[easyrider16]

Well, sure, but what I mean is that these people see this as the land of their birth and where their ancestors have lived for generations, and the Israeli's want to forcibly remove them from it. Who among us on these forums wouldn't fight about that?

[daytripper]

So Jews didnt live in Israel before WWII? Palestinians and Jews have been fighting over that land for over 1000 years. The Palestinians families that are possibly being evicted from there homes were given those homes when Israel was formed, when some homes were owned by Jews at the time. So back then the properties were taken away from the Jews which the courts might now be doing to the Palestinians. I have also heard that these properties are owned by the Jews and that the Palestinians they are trying to evict have not paid rent. There are two sides to each story with the truth being somewhere in the middle. Neither of us know what the truth is. What I do know is that a terrorist organization is attacking a sovereign nation who is a strong ally of the USA. I certainly have compassion for the Palestinians and something needs to be done with the issues in east Jerusalem but when attacked by a terrorist group I would expect and support any nation defending themselves. In the end, its a terrorist group attacking a nation which is the same as 911. Al Qaeda felt just as strongly and passionately as Hamas does about their cause and would strongly disagree with your claim that they attacked a country thousands of miles away for no good reason.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Agree, daytripper. Well said.

[easyrider16]

There are two sides to each story with the truth being somewhere in the middle. Neither of us know what the truth is.

Agreed. It's very messy.

What I do know is that a terrorist organization is attacking a sovereign nation who is a strong ally of the USA. I certainly have compassion for the Palestinians and something needs to be done with the issues in east Jerusalem but when attacked by a terrorist group I would expect and support any nation defending themselves. In the end, its a terrorist group attacking a nation which is the same as 911. Al Qaeda felt just as strongly and passionately as Hamas does about their cause and would strongly disagree with your claim that they attacked a country thousands of miles away for no good reason.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. If the American revolution happened today, don't you think the British would brand Washington a terrorist? The colonials refused to fight honorably and used "Indian" tactics of guerrilla warfare. And they attacked a sovereign nation, didn't they?

I'm not saying Israel doesn't have a right to respond, and I'm not condoning the violent methods Hamas uses. I'm just saying it's not as simple as "Israelis good, Hamas bad." It's way more complicated than that, and both sides have done terrible things. Hamas has targeted civilians. Israelis have too, and have used children as human shields. It's a huge, sh!tty-ass mess. And Trump took a giant dump on it, making it even messier.

As for the comparison to Al Queda, it's not about how they feel about their cause. My point was that Palestinians are in literal danger of losing their homeland. They are fighting over turf. Al Queda was fighting for some stupid religious/political ideals. Wouldn't you fight if someone came to take your home away from you? That's not the same as joining Al Queda to fight a far-off country no where near where you live.