Poaching

[skiadikt]

I am pretty skeptical of there being trail cams. Not impossible, but seems like a very manpower-intensive operation that I would think the suits would consider a waste of resources (ie money). Much more likely that somebody saw this local, recognized him, and decided to make an example. Or possibly a patroller/staffer happened to be in the area and radio'd somebody in a position to review the lift video with a description. I would highly doubt they have staff dedicated to reviewing video all day long.

Not manpower intensive at all. Just need someone to sit at a computer for a while, and does not have to be in real time, to get the matchups. Probably could even automate this with some clever programming. Then, once they have the matchup, just need to type the pass code into the system to shut you off. Guest services is already there so no extra "manpower" needed when you turn yourself in.

Seems like something that could done strictly with AI, no manpower necessary.

yup absolutely AI involved.

[Guy in Shorts]

Latest number I heard is they are up to 100 with half of the offenders being employees. The paying customer gets a two week sentence if it is their first offense. The employees or their dependents lose lift riding privileges for the season. The rules have always been the same. They just have a few new tools to assist in enforcement.

[Eddytheyetti]

Latest number I heard is they are up to 100 with half of the offenders being employees. The paying customer gets a two week sentence if it is their first offense. The employees or their dependents lose lift riding privileges for the season. The rules have always been the same. They just have a few new tools to assist in enforcement.

Seems like a major mistake. They will loose a lot of employees. A lot of people only take those jobs to get the passes for their family. There’s better ways to make $17.00 an hour. I hope that’s not true.


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[skiadikt]

Latest number I heard is they are up to 100 with half of the offenders being employees. The paying customer gets a two week sentence if it is their first offense. The employees or their dependents lose lift riding privileges for the season. The rules have always been the same. They just have a few new tools to assist in enforcement.

the law comes to git you if you don't walk right ...

are they continuing to bust people or is this from last week's haul. in any case, that's a lot of employees, especially when they're so hard to come by. bet they lost some good people.

losing the pass for the season for a 1st offense seems rather harsh especially since this sorta came out of nowhere. they never cracked down like this before. maybe a month would be more reasonable for employees w losing it for the season for a 2nd offense (which is what i assume happens if you're paying customer).

wondering if this is coming down from mike or tate.

[Pedro]

there are some "stealthy" ways they can track you. cameras etc.

tell us more , please

OK - Here goes. Think I figured it out after talking to someone yesterday who just had his pass "pulled" several days after the poach as well as some info I got from a local ski shop.

Pretty sure they are using time stamped video/pix of both the "poach" and the RFID lift access. Not sure where the "trail" cams are located [fixed, mobile, ???] but here's a potential scenario using last Tuesday's Double Dip poach as an example.

Poacher gets filmed ducking the rope, skiing the trail, and/or exiting the area on a closed trail [e.g., Cascade Runout]. Poacher has maybe taken the K1 up for the poach [or coulda been NR quad] in which case there is a video of him/her going through the scanner. Just as likely, the poacher is gonna go back up [for another poach or not] and gets video'd again by the K1 scanner camera. Now the sneaky part: K can "catch" this poacher days later when they have time to review the vids and match the poacher [outfit, equipment, and very importantly time] to the scanner video and voila, they have the pass number.

This is what happened to the local I was talking to in the parking lot. He must have poached Double Dipper last Tuesday [probably more than once] and was filmed. Not sure if he skied Wednesday or not but he was away for a few days and came back late yesterday [Monday]. He got through the Snowdon 6 "scan" as he got waved through when the hand scanner didn't work and headed up that lift. Sometime after that he went to board the K1 and got the red light on the scanner. Had to go to Guest Services where he was tried, convicted, and handed his sentence.

Gotta admit, it's brilliant - No need for a ski patroller to have to do the dirty work. The poacher turns himself/herself in.

Obviously, they have to be certain re: the matchup between the poach vid and the scanner vid. That's where the time stamping really comes into play. But, relatively easy in some circumstances for example having a hard mounted camera on K1 lodge filming Cascade Runout and a minute or two later the scanner vid of the poacher getting on the gondi.

Even easier if poachers are in a group I would think.

We all need to start dressing the same so big brother can't single us out! Cue Shaggy...(It Wasn't Me)

Genius.....i have some suggestions:

Screenshot 2023-12-06 at 7.14.54 PM.png (1.37 MiB) Viewed 108178 times

[hillbangin]

Latest number I heard is they are up to 100 with half of the offenders being employees. The paying customer gets a two week sentence if it is their first offense. The employees or their dependents lose lift riding privileges for the season. The rules have always been the same. They just have a few new tools to assist in enforcement.

DIS turbing.

Was the poaching that offensive? Heading down Supe into the construction area? Using the guns on Highline as gates? Running over hoses ?

Please tell me they didn't take employee passes for ducking the rope on 'the trail segment known as upper royal flush'.

This is completely depressing - worse than masks in the liftline.

Anyone know a good realtor?

[whymoo]

So why not take a nice hammer to these trail cams, where are they located?

[rogman]

So why not take a nice hammer to these trail cams, where are they located?

Welp. Going with the insanity defense, eh? You’ve killed any shot of the stupid, impulsive, I was drunk on my ass, defense. Clearly premeditated. Maybe the judge will give you a lighter sentence for using a “nice” hammer.

[snoloco]

While I think using surveillance cameras to catch poachers is taking things too far, it's hard for me to have any sympathy for employees who got caught. Employees at any ski area are held to a higher standard than guests, and that includes worse punishment for ducking a rope. I'm sure everyone was told this when they started working that ducking a rope meant their pass was gone. If they weren't so short staffed, then they'd probably be fired too.

[Pedro]

While I think using surveillance cameras to catch poachers is taking things too far, it's hard for me to have any sympathy for employees who got caught. Employees at any ski area are held to a higher standard than guests, and that includes worse punishment for ducking a rope. I'm sure everyone was told this when they started working that ducking a rope meant their pass was gone. If they weren't so short staffed, then they'd probably be fired too.

If leveraging technology enables Patrol to use their resources more efficiently, then it is a very good thing, especially if that resource is ready to defibrillate your ass instead of stalking some asshole skiing lower ovation after a dusting.

[snoloco]

Big brother surveillance like this is never a good thing. The risk of false positives is very high, and not all poaching is created equal. I'm not much of a poacher either. But I still think using hidden cameras, if that's what's happening, is going too far.

[Eddytheyetti]

Pulling passes in mass is not good customer service. I understand why the mountain wants/needs to curtail the behavior. I also understand why people poach, and I agree with Snoloco there are different degrees. But pass holders are still customers. You can’t just start pulling the product back and publicly shaming people when it’s never been enforced before. You can control 99% of the behavior with a warning and probation. This can’t be coming from Mike, unless Mike actively wants people to sell their house/condo and move. I haven’t been caught poaching, but if they really are watching cameras and I have to worry every time I go through the gate that maybe somebody dressed like me did something wrong, then I don’t want to ski killington. They don’t do this sh*t at other mountains. I don’t want to have to change my ski outfit so I don’t feel nervous. I don’t want to feel like patrollers are all corrupt cops. I just want to f*** ski and be happy, and I’ll drive to the Bush if I have to.

Mike/the resort needs to get out publicly and adress this PR disaster and tell everybody what really happened, why they had to do it, and why it’s still fun to ski killington. And for f*** sake stop videoing me when I am on vacation.


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[Pedro]

Big brother surveillance like this is never a good thing. The risk of false positives is very high, and not all poaching is created equal. I'm not much of a poacher either. But I still think using hidden cameras, if that's what's happening, is going too far.

If they have decent cameras and are comparing images from the cams by the rope to the cams at the gate accompanied by the RFID scan to confirm your identity, the rate of false positives would be meagre, especially if they have access to software tools to facilitate confirmation.

[Skivt2]

But we all know about one confirmed false positive of a local and there are probably more.

There is a certain quality about Killington where reasonability prevailed vs the mountain being a “Type A” enforcer of an environment of corporate tight butts. That’s always been part of the appeal of the place.

What other policies are they going to change/enforce?

[snoloco]

It's really easy to get a false positive. A lot if ski gear looks alike. What if someone with the same jacket as me poached Dipper and was caught on the camera. If I come out of the lodge and get on the K1 at about the same time, while the actual poacher took a different lift, went into the lodge, or out to the parking lot, then they're going to think it's me, and take my pass.

I would have no way of making a case that I didn't do it. I'd be out of a pass for two weeks, and already have a strike against me for the rest of the season.

If it's enforced the old fashioned way, with ski patrol waiting at the bottom of a closed trail, then there's no way this happens. I don't appreciate having to be on edge for having my pass silently pulled, just because my gear might look similar to someone else's. If you don't ski closed trails, then you should not have to worry about losing your pass for it.

My theory is they got this idea after the knuckleheads who skied too fast on opening day had their passes pulled days later, based on video evidence.