What Can the New Owners do to Fix K This Season

[Bubba]

Killington has had overcrowding for many years because uphill capacity far exceeds downhill capacity. Snowden used to be a double and before that 2 pomas. The trail layout hasn't changed much in all that time but now it's a high speed 6. Bear has 2 quads leading into 3 trails not including OL. They are replacing the Superstar quad with a 6 without any changes to the trail layout in that area. What's next an 8 pack on OL?

With the trend toward higher speed, higher capacity lifts, uphill capacity without expansion of downhill capacity seems like it would be a problem for the industry as a whole, not just Killington.

[Bubba]

I just heard about the 2 knuckleheads who interfered with a Mookie Betts catch in the world series being banned from all major league parks. Speaking as someone who was once knocked unconscious by a reckless skier at the bottom of Superstar and deliberately taken out by a boarder on Highline I'd love to see Killington do the same to them. With all the cameras and facial recognition tech at K it should be easily enforceable. The worst offenders should be banned for life like Da Diss.

When a skier falls with no one around, it’s still a snowboarders fault I guarantee the boarder didn’t “deliberately” hit you.

Yes I can say the boarder hit me deliberately. High Line is a very wide trail and we were the only people on it. I was skiing a pretty straight line and in an area where he could see me from pretty far above me. I'm not attacking all boarders, just the belligerent scumbags that are looking for a fight.

Gotta disagree here. Just because he was riding near your line and ended up taking you out (presumably when he fell) doesn’t make it deliberate. Even if he didn’t fall first, even getting too close doesn’t make it deliberate; it makes it an accident resulting from stupid behavior. I was hit by a boarder years ago because he was riding behind me and, when he hit me, he said that I “zigged when he expected me to zag”. I told him if that’s the case then he was riding too close. It didn’t mean he hit me on purpose.

[Big Bob]

For those attracted to or wishing to avoid, they also finally have "snowmaking" under the notes column.

I suggested this back on 1/4. You're welcome.

[spanky]

I just heard about the 2 knuckleheads who interfered with a Mookie Betts catch in the world series being banned from all major league parks. Speaking as someone who was once knocked unconscious by a reckless skier at the bottom of Superstar and deliberately taken out by a boarder on Highline I'd love to see Killington do the same to them. With all the cameras and facial recognition tech at K it should be easily enforceable. The worst offenders should be banned for life like Da Diss.

thats some really strong words. deliberately? youll have to elaborate on how you know they intended to hit you.

Gotta admit, I agree with asher on this one.

[skiadikt]

I just heard about the 2 knuckleheads who interfered with a Mookie Betts catch in the world series being banned from all major league parks. Speaking as someone who was once knocked unconscious by a reckless skier at the bottom of Superstar and deliberately taken out by a boarder on Highline I'd love to see Killington do the same to them. With all the cameras and facial recognition tech at K it should be easily enforceable. The worst offenders should be banned for life like Da Diss.

thats some really strong words. deliberately? youll have to elaborate on how you know they intended to hit you.

Gotta admit, I agree with asher on this one.

can't comment on G's experience but had a similar one getting taken out downdraft last year. thought i was the only one on the trail. generally i make pretty consistent turns in a rather narrow lane. don't criss cross from one side to the other. out of nowhere this guy took me out just entering the lower section. didn't see me just below the drop off. obviously not deliberate but he was flying. knocked my helmet & goggles clean off. when he hit me, thought it was gonna be really bad. after taking inventory for a couple minutes, other than being shaken felt there was no serious damage. kudos to him he stayed and was apologetic. consider myself lucky.

[spanky]

Deliberately (G’s word) is a pretty strong accusation without further evidence…

“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”

[rogman]

Deliberate? No. That goes to the reckless skiers mindset. Implies premeditation, etc. However, it can be described as “criminally negligent” because:
1. They had knowledge of the danger
2. Behavior was reckless
3. They posed an obvious risk to the victim
4. A reasonable person would have foreseen the risk
We are arguing semantics. I’m not a lawyer, and neither is G-smashed.

[vzspyder]

Well this thread has gotten off topic.

[...] Regardless, the new owners are big KMS/KSC supporters, so good luck with your Karma plan.

While some of the more visible new owners are KMS/KSC fans, I know there are others who don't much care for racing.

I'd love to see a much-reduced emphasis and reduction in the number of parks on the mountain.

Agree +1000 . . what a waste of good trails

all for the rats having their parks. [...]

Y’all can’t be serious?!? There are 100’s of trails on the mountain and you guys are complaining about a few parks?!? [...]

This discussion is ridiculous. Agreed with Leaddog; Killington excels because of its variety. Nonsense whining about "too many parks", they're good and they're not going away. I like Asher's proposal about lower-tier kickers on Dreammaker though.

[spanky]

Deliberate? No. That goes to the reckless skiers mindset. Implies premeditation, etc. However, it can be described as “criminally negligent” because:
1. They had knowledge of the danger
2. Behavior was reckless
3. They posed an obvious risk to the victim
4. A reasonable person would have foreseen the risk
We are arguing semantics. I’m not a lawyer, and neither is G-smashed.

Criminal negligence, sure. It’s a shame it isn’t publicized/promoted that such violations of the skier responsibility code can result in charges of criminal negligence.

[asher2789]

I just heard about the 2 knuckleheads who interfered with a Mookie Betts catch in the world series being banned from all major league parks. Speaking as someone who was once knocked unconscious by a reckless skier at the bottom of Superstar and deliberately taken out by a boarder on Highline I'd love to see Killington do the same to them. With all the cameras and facial recognition tech at K it should be easily enforceable. The worst offenders should be banned for life like Da Diss.

When a skier falls with no one around, it’s still a snowboarders fault I guarantee the boarder didn’t “deliberately” hit you.

Yes I can say the boarder hit me deliberately. High Line is a very wide trail and we were the only people on it. I was skiing a pretty straight line and in an area where he could see me from pretty far above me. I'm not attacking all boarders, just the belligerent scumbags that are looking for a fight.

thats not deliberate. its a risk to the snowboarder to collide into you, and assuming there was no prior interaction between the two of you there was no reason either. it sounds like the person lost control and was on a trail far above their ability as is commonly the case. they probably tried to emergency stop on their heels while not on their heel edge, that couple milliseconds to change edges doesnt work in a tight space on a green, let alone a black. common mistake made by inexperienced riders and a reason why snowboarders get a bad reputation and when they collide into someone its usually because of that. newer riders tend to feel more secure on their heels despite the fact that the toes have way better grip, balance and stopping power.

i cant tell you how many times ive been cut off on my blind side by some douchebag skier who clearly knows better to the point that im convinced its intentional. but they dont hit me, because theyll be the one getting hurt if they do with their much older and less in shape bodies. if a skier collided into me id assume theyre either inexperienced and skiing above their ability, popping out of the woods too fast (friend broke her arm last year from that), or drunk. if i get hit by a snowboarder (which has happened more), its because i fell in the park and am getting up in the landing (friendly fire from a friend near killed me as a teen) or because im getting hit in the blind side from the other riders blind side and were opposite footed. years ago i got sent full speed into a snowmaking pole by a regular footed rider going slightly faster than me trying to hit a side hit. he rode off, didnt even stop despite knowing he hit me and hit me bad. but thats the douchebags of mountain creek for ya.

the one and only time ive ever collided into someone was popping out of the woods too fast. i stayed with the person and their friend, and my ex was able to calm them down. they were ok, just shooken up, i felt horrible about it, i could of easily seriously injured them. offered to buy them drinks at the bar but they declined. ever since, any time i go in those woods with someone new i tell them the story and we exit those woods a hell of a lot slower and i flat out avoid them on saturdays as theres just too much traffic on the trail it exits into blind.

[rogman]

No one is objecting to the parks, it’s the snow making resources dedicated to them, and the park rats unwillingness to police themselves. Too many behave recklessly.

IMO Killington’s parks seem a bit disorganized. On the Bear side, the Stash is a sweet park with smaller features. To pair it with the huge hits on Dream Maker is a bit absurd. In doing so, they abandoned the section of the Stash below the crossover and turned it into “Shorty”, which is a nice flat natural trail with a terrible name and a wet spot in the middle but really is just a non-descript mostly forgotten nothing trail. They’ve also abandoned the 22’ half pipe at the bottom of Dream Maker. It now serves as this weird feature that sometimes people ski through when it’s open but really feels like an area they have no idea what to do with anymore. You can’t even pretend that this collection represents a coherent plan. Seems like they’re just checking a bunch of boxes.

[asher2789]

Killington has had overcrowding for many years because uphill capacity far exceeds downhill capacity. Snowden used to be a double and before that 2 pomas. The trail layout hasn't changed much in all that time but now it's a high speed 6. Bear has 2 quads leading into 3 trails not including OL. They are replacing the Superstar quad with a 6 without any changes to the trail layout in that area. What's next an 8 pack on OL?

irrelevant, they can have the same uphill capacity by having more space between chairs / less chairs on the line. while ridiculous to have an 8 pack on OL, same thing.

[asher2789]

No one is objecting to the parks, it’s the snow making resources dedicated to them, and the park rats unwillingness to police themselves. Too many behave recklessly.

IMO Killington’s parks seem a bit disorganized. On the Bear side, the Stash is a sweet park with smaller features. To pair it with the huge hits on Dream Maker is a bit absurd. In doing so, they abandoned the section of the Stash below the crossover and turned it into “Shorty”, which is a nice flat natural trail with a terrible name and a wet spot in the middle but really is just a non-descript mostly forgotten nothing trail. They’ve also abandoned the 22’ half pipe at the bottom of Dream Maker. It now serves as this weird feature that sometimes people ski through when it’s open but really feels like an area they have no idea what to do with anymore. You can’t even pretend that this collection represents a coherent plan. Seems like they’re just checking a bunch of boxes.

fully agree re your view of parks. its incoherent. please please please can we get a real pipe again!!! it can be with the smaller pipe dragon! its the only park discipline im actually decent at. you probably know this but if not the stash woods continue down to the right of shorty and still have features in them.

(the 22' pipe is never coming back unless the mtn buys a new dragon for it)

[newpylong1]

Wasn't there a plan to use some of the banked acres to cut another trail next to Timberline? Not sure if the pitch would be conducive to getting the features off of Dreammaker and putting them there instead. That would consolidate most of the parks and put them in an area that has much more snowmaking capacity than the East side. It also frees up probably the best cruising trail on the entire darn mountain. With a lift upgrade RH could handle the added usage. Not that DM seems to see a lot anyway. Could leave Stash where it is because it's pretty darn cool and would be hard to replicate.

[Bayfive]

Park rats and k M S kids bad stoned 70 something starting out of bay one good , you guys are a joke