Breaking - Killington sale announced

[Highway Star]

Do you know how many people own houses and condo's on the mountain?

I can only speak for myself. I want the additional restaurants and shops that the village will bring. If will also increase the value of my house in the area, because it will be a more desired location for a second home. We pay outlandish Property taxes for the services we get. Now if we can gain a benefit, for a village so be it. Daytrippers, keep in mind we have invested in the area.

If you don't like what they do. You know what you can do. March with your feet to another ski area.

Yes, I know multiple people who own on-mountain property. I am not against the base village (overall), and I think I would go to the shops and resteraunts there (if they didn't suck).

[DrJeff]

I know why *you* don't go out west.
The question was why that demographic doesn't go out west.

Since I'm part of that demographic, I think I answered it quite well.

you're 22 years old. even if you have money, you're not part of the demographic.

I'm 23 now

Anyways, regardless of age, how does this matter?

My friends and I spend a good amount of money at K ... the bars, the shops, parking, rentals, beer, ski accessories from the Basin shop, lift passes, lodging, base lodge food, etc.

I guess what I'm asking is ... you mean I'm NOT a herb?

No, you're a herb. Standard middle class herb that Killington is marketing to....which is fine. They are offering good deals, which is fine too.

What Steve is refering to is rich herbs, which is one of the groups of customers that the Village will cater to. He's wondering why they wouldn't just go out west.....or to Stratton, or Stowe, or Okemo.....and the answer is....they will. There aren't that many rich herbs who stick around the east for their vacations....the market is tight, and they will go elsewhere, unless Killington has the product.

Even the rich Herbs can't go West everytime they want to go skiing. If you take a look at the US popluation, a huge percentage lives along the East Coast, and even the vast majorityEast Coast Uber rich can't simply just get into their G5's and jet out West for a quick 2 or 3 days and get back and function in the business world come Monday AM. The East resorts offer this to this group of folks. And remember, its a big group of folks, since in the US, there are now over 3 million people who make up the richest 1 percent of the population. Thats alot of bodies and wallets!

[Highway Star]

Since I'm part of that demographic, I think I answered it quite well.

you're 22 years old. even if you have money, you're not part of the demographic.

I'm 23 now

Anyways, regardless of age, how does this matter?

My friends and I spend a good amount of money at K ... the bars, the shops, parking, rentals, beer, ski accessories from the Basin shop, lift passes, lodging, base lodge food, etc.

I guess what I'm asking is ... you mean I'm NOT a herb?

No, you're a herb. Standard middle class herb that Killington is marketing to....which is fine. They are offering good deals, which is fine too.

What Steve is refering to is rich herbs, which is one of the groups of customers that the Village will cater to. He's wondering why they wouldn't just go out west.....or to Stratton, or Stowe, or Okemo.....and the answer is....they will. There aren't that many rich herbs who stick around the east for their vacations....the market is tight, and they will go elsewhere, unless Killington has the product.

Even the rich Herbs can't go West everytime they want to go skiing. If you take a look at the US popluation, a huge percentage lives along the East Coast, and even the vast majorityEast Coast Uber rich can't simply just get into their G5's and jet out West for a quick 2 or 3 days and get back and function in the business world come Monday AM. The East resorts offer this to this group of folks. And remember, its a big group of folks, since in the US, there are now over 3 million people who make up the richest 1 percent of the population. Thats alot of bodies and wallets!

Right...which is why I said that they can (and have been for years) go to Stratton, Stowe and Okemo........

[Vinny Vincenzo]

...Stratton was the first new yorker hot spot....hell, my parents met there in the 70's!

Really? What about the resorts that were founded 30 years before Stratton (circa 1961)? People from New Hampshire kept them going?


AND DON'T MAKE FUN OF HIGHWAY TARD'S PARENTS!!!
I'm sure they were nice guys.

[KingsFourMan]

Best thing to happen to Killington since Pres Smith built the access road.

[Highway Star]

...Stratton was the first new yorker hot spot....hell, my parents met there in the 70's!

Really? What about the resorts that were founded 30 years before Stratton (circa 1961)? People from New Hampshire kept them going?


AND DON'T MAKE FUN OF HIGHWAY TARD'S PARENTS!!!
I'm sure they were nice guys.

True.....

I was thinking more of the last 20 years, with the whole Village concept, and high end NYC. I think Stratton was the first (or one of the first) to build a base village in VT, and they have always been the high end choice for the NYC crowd. That's my perception at least.

[Bling Skier]

...Stratton was the first new yorker hot spot....hell, my parents met there in the 70's!

Really? What about the resorts that were founded 30 years before Stratton (circa 1961)? People from New Hampshire kept them going?


AND DON'T MAKE FUN OF HIGHWAY TARD'S PARENTS!!!
I'm sure they were nice guys.

"Stratton was the first new yorker hot spot...."
Highway Turd, Ever hear of Bromley?
How about Sugar Bush?

[Highway Star]

...Stratton was the first new yorker hot spot....hell, my parents met there in the 70's!

Really? What about the resorts that were founded 30 years before Stratton (circa 1961)? People from New Hampshire kept them going?


AND DON'T MAKE FUN OF HIGHWAY TARD'S PARENTS!!!
I'm sure they were nice guys.

"Stratton was the first new yorker hot spot...."
Highway Turd, Ever hear of Bromley?
How about Sugar Bush?

Ok, please school me then. I don't have the history first hand like you do....

Again, an off the cuff comment, refering to the status of resorts in the east, and relative to base villages. Growing up in the 80's and 90's, Stratton always seemed like the top pick of the NYC upper crust crowd, and had the base area to match. I know there were many other resorts to come before it, and I know city people came to them.

Who had the first "base village" in VT? It wouldn't be stratton, would it?

My original point was that Stratton is a (the?) top NYC upper crust spot, and they have been for a while. They have a base village and were one of the first to have one.

Everyone, calm the hell down...I know it doesn't happen much but I was wrong.

[Bubba]

...Everyone, relax....I'm probably wrong.

Well, at least you're right about something.....

Sugarbush was known as Mascara Mountain and catered to the so-called jet set for many years, long before Stratton became the mountain of choice for well heeled folks from Westchester Co., NY and Fairfield Co., CT. Other mountains also catered to the upscale crowd from major east coast metropolitan areas long before Stratton.

[Mister Moose]

I think Stowe has had the lock on New York money for some time, and was a hot spot long before Stratton. Check the price of a room at the Pitcher Inn in Warren.

Those of you that resent ski areas catering to the "rich" people need to wake up to the fact that companies are in business to make a profit. They are not in business to give you anything for free.

When ski areas started, you got a rope tow, a wooden picnic bench in the lodge, and a bag lunch. When it snowed you could ski.

Today to be competitve, you need to offer snowmaking and high speed quads or gondolas, which last time I checked, cost a lot more than rope tows, or fixed grip quads. These investments get paid back through real estate sales, food and beverage, lift ticket/pass sales, and other on hill vendor revenue. Shareholders want a return on their investment, they don't care what you think is traditional or fair. If they can get you to pay $240 for preferred parking, or $4 for a waffle, they will glady provide that service.

All of us that ski at Snow, Stratton, Killington, Sugarbush, or Stowe are all paying more for lift tickets, and if we choose, those extra amenities. We are choosing NOT to ski at Suicide Six, Ascutney, Bromley, Burke, or Jiminy Peak, even though those areas are cheaper. Bosquet is $15 for cryin out load. But still we don't ski there.

Look in the mirror. We are the market that drives what these areas do. If you can't afford the million dollar village condo, maybe you can afford the quarter million condo, so that owner can get out of it and be the one that buys the million dollar condo.

Notice the ratio in any airplane of first class seats to coach. Most seats are coach, yet the airline wants to maximize revenue through the higher price first class affords. They can't make it on pure first class either, they must compete for the coach customers and keep them happy. Same with ski areas.

Yes, the village will come, and yes it will have high end units you can't afford, and yes, some of those "rich" people will be arrogant boorish people. (Here's a thought: Middle income and low income people can be arrogant and boorish too.) But the resort still must cater to its "coach class" clientel to survive. If the "coach class" parking hassle is such that we vote with our feet and go elsewhere, the resort will change to meet that market demand. It's simple. Just follow the money.

These things can be cyclical. At one time Magic Mountain was a premier resort, and boasted the world's longest chairlift. Look where it is now, and how commonplace that chairlift is.

The two things you can't buy more of in the ski business is latitude and vertical drop. For that reason Killington will always have the potential to be a viable, in demand resort.

Lets hope the new owners do well in serving both first class and coach.

[Highway Star]

I think Stowe has had the lock on New York money for some time, and was a hot spot long before Stratton.

Those of you that resent ski areas catering to the "rich" people need to wake up to the fact that companies are in business to make a profit. They are not in business to give you anything for free.

When ski areas started, you got a rope tow, a wooden picnic bench in the lodge, and a bag lunch. When it snowed you could ski.

Today to be competitve, you need to offer snowmaking and high speed quads or gondolas, which last time I checked, cost a lot more than rope tows, or fixed grip quads. These investments get paid back through real estate sales, food and beverage, lift ticket/pass sales, and other on hill vendor revenue. Shareholders want a return on their investment, they don't care what you think is traditional or fair. If they can get you to pay $240 for preferred parking, or $4 for a waffle, they will glady provide that service.

All of us that ski at Snow, Stratton, Killington, Sugarbush, or Stowe are all paying more for lift tickets, and if we choose, those extra amenities. We are choosing NOT to ski at Suicide Six, Ascutney, Bromley, Burke, or Jiminy Peak, even though those areas are cheaper. Bosquet is $15 for cryin out load. But still we don't ski there.

Look in the mirror. We are the market that drives what these areas do. If you can't afford the million dollar village condo, maybe you can afford the quarter million condo, so that owner can get out of it and be the one that buys the million dollar condo.

Notice the ratio in any airplane of first class seats to coach. Most seats are coach, yet the airline wants to maximize revenue through the higher price first class affords. They can't make it on pure first class either, they must compete for the coach customers and keep them happy. Same with ski areas.

Yes, the village will come, and yes it will have high end units you can't afford, and yes, some of those "rich" people will be arrogant boorish people. (Here's a thought: Middle income and low income people can be arrogant and boorish too.) But the resort still must cater to its "coach class" clientel to survive. If the "coach class" parking hassle is such that we vote with our feet and go elsewhere, the resort will change to meet that market demand. It's simple. Just follow the money.

These things can be cyclical. At one time Magic Mountain was a premier resort, and boasted the world's longest chairlift. Look where it is now, and how commonplace that chairlift is.

The two things you can't buy more of in the ski business is latitude and vertical drop. For that reason Killington will always have the potential to be a viable, in demand resort.

Lets hope the new owners do well in serving both first class and coach.

Great post.....completely agree.

[Vinny Vincenzo]

People first flocked to Vermont from NYC by train, no car. They went to the places that were accessible via rail.

Remember PICO? 1937, long before KMART. NY, NH&H, Boston&Maine, and Rutland Railroads. B&M came right through Troy.

Mad River Glen (35 B.C.) & Stowe
NY, NH&H, Central VT RR, NY-Montreal RR.

Bromley 1938 (see NELSAP for West Meadows, Snow Valley & others)
Manchester was a bustling ski town with dozens of inns.
NYC, Boston&Maine RR. Bus service from Albany.

There's several other cities that had ski areas that had their day as NYC hot spots. See Nelsap. It's a treasure chest of ski history.

p.s. Why do you think Stowe had to form the 1st ski patrol. The crazy guido's from the city crawling all over the mountain.

[keram]

Rich People......

New Yorkers ---> Stratton
Bostonians ---> Stowe

Seriously....? Killington seems to draw in a crowd from the NY area who can ski, because it's the closest place with real terrain. And people from Boston who can ski pretty well and are party animals.

Killington has a way to go before it becomes a trophy home hot spot again.

never skied stratton until 3 weeks ago. what a joke. Except VT open in March it was my first and last time there. Here's some highlights
* $75/a day for 1965 fis mogul field?
* disorganized gondola loading
* no challanging terrain
* rude people
* 12 pm traffic jam at the lift bottom
* best terrain park in NE ? a joke

Let Stratton be a screen for 'skiers' heading to K. If they stay there then be it.

I've skied 4 weeks ago at Park City. Well developed, well run. Pricey? probably. K needs a face lift and more development beyond Peppino's, Wbarn, shshi yoshi and other restaurants @ the Access Rd.
Also, RSN 14 NEEDS an upgrade.
Let the RE prices rise!
Oh, I give them 1 -2 seasons to get gondola from K to P running. Imagine all that powder @ P w/o having to hitch the bus ride.

[Hystyk28]

The biggest factor here is weather. What happens if we have 1-3 seasons in a row where the weather looks like it did in Dec and actually end up like we thought it might? Of course on the contrary a few monster seasons will accelerate this whole process. Anybody have guesses at pass prices?

[newpylong]

Manchester had it's own RR station serviced by the Rutland RR....