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Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 12:14
by KnuckleDragger
BigKahuna13 wrote:
KnuckleDragger wrote:How many of you out there work for company that gives an 8% raise? Im not talking through a promotion to a new position but a flat out 8% across the board regardless of performance.
Not me. Nor would the TWU. Raise was 8% over the 3 year life of the contract.
Maybe CNN has it wrong but:

"On Monday, the union rejected an offer by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority that included a three-year contract with wage increases of up to 4 percent each year. Workers had been asking for an 8 percent annual wage increase.

Hours before the strike, Toussaint said workers were prepared to lower their wage increase demands to below 6 percent if the transit authority agreed to reduce the number of disciplinary actions launched against workers and grant other concessions. "

Regarding the part in bold...WTF does that mean? Workers should be allowed more freedom to break rules without consequences?

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 12:17
by RipeBanana
They had been asking for 24% wage increase over the next 3 years. They were offered 10%. NEW employees would also have to pay portions of their health care premiums like every other person in America who doesn't work for the MTA.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 12:19
by Cityskier
KnuckleDragger wrote:
BigKahuna13 wrote:
KnuckleDragger wrote:How many of you out there work for company that gives an 8% raise? Im not talking through a promotion to a new position but a flat out 8% across the board regardless of performance.
Not me. Nor would the TWU. Raise was 8% over the 3 year life of the contract.
Maybe CNN has it wrong but:

"On Monday, the union rejected an offer by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority that included a three-year contract with wage increases of up to 4 percent each year. Workers had been asking for an 8 percent annual wage increase.

Hours before the strike, Toussaint said workers were prepared to lower their wage increase demands to below 6 percent if the transit authority agreed to reduce the number of disciplinary actions launched against workers and grant other concessions. "

Regarding the part in bold...WTF does that mean? Workers should be allowed more freedom to break rules without consequences?
That was the point the other day when I realized that the TWU were a bunch of knuckleheads that didn't deserve any sympathy. You can't legislate disciplinary actions. If people fcuk up they need to be dealy with.

And when the head of TWU International thinks that the local New York guys are making bad decisions, you wonder what Toussaint think he will get out of this:

"As has been reported in several media outlets, I personally spoke before the Local 100 Executive Board when it met on the morning of Dec. 20, and told them that I would not approve this strike," said TWU President Michael T. O'Brien in a statement. "I told them that the only road to contract victory for the membership was not by strike but continued negotiation. I continue to believe this. It should not be construed in any way that my refusal to sanction this strike lessens my resolve to secure the best possible contract for this membership."

Relations between the TWU International and the New York local weren't particularly cozy before the strike. And the $1 million daily fine imposed on the strikers' union by a New York state judge yesterday afternoon hasn't helped the mood. By state law, that fine doubles each day the strike continues, which means that if this strike were to last 11 days like the last New York City transit strike 25 years ago, the union faces a tab of $1.93 billion (See "Transit Pigs From Outer Space"). The local reportedly has only $3.6 million in cash on hand. If the judge's order is upheld, the New York union might have to put its headquarters building up for sale--or hold its cup out in the direction of its parent organization.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 12:22
by BigKahuna13
KnuckleDragger wrote:
BigKahuna13 wrote:
KnuckleDragger wrote:How many of you out there work for company that gives an 8% raise? Im not talking through a promotion to a new position but a flat out 8% across the board regardless of performance.
Not me. Nor would the TWU. Raise was 8% over the 3 year life of the contract.
Maybe CNN has it wrong but:

"On Monday, the union rejected an offer by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority that included a three-year contract with wage increases of up to 4 percent each year. Workers had been asking for an 8 percent annual wage increase.

Hours before the strike, Toussaint said workers were prepared to lower their wage increase demands to below 6 percent if the transit authority agreed to reduce the number of disciplinary actions launched against workers and grant other concessions. "

Regarding the part in bold...WTF does that mean? Workers should be allowed more freedom to break rules without consequences?
That was their initial position which, as with most negotiations, was well in excess of what they really wanted. If you want 4%, you're not going to initially ask for 4%.

As for the latter. No idea. My only experience with being a unionized worker left a bad taste in my mouth and I've completely repressed my memory of the details.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 12:35
by RipeBanana
If I was a New Yorker, I think the thing I'd be most pissed about is the silence from Eliot Spitzer. I guess he wants the unions on his side when he runs for Governor. He seems awfully quick to indict anything that moves if it serves him politically, and just as eager to ignore anything that doesn't.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 12:47
by HelmetCam
give 'em all the Donald Trump / Ronald Reagan:

You're FIRED!
Image

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 12:53
by Cityskier
RipeBanana wrote:If I was a New Yorker, I think the thing I'd be most pissed about is the silence from Eliot Spitzer. I guess he wants the unions on his side when he runs for Governor. He seems awfully quick to indict anything that moves if it serves him politically, and just as eager to ignore anything that doesn't.
He's one of the biggest self-serving scumbags around.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 12:56
by HelmetCam
Cityskier wrote:
RipeBanana wrote:If I was a New Yorker, I think the thing I'd be most pissed about is the silence from Eliot Spitzer. I guess he wants the unions on his side when he runs for Governor. He seems awfully quick to indict anything that moves if it serves him politically, and just as eager to ignore anything that doesn't.
He's one of the biggest self-serving scumbags around.
He's a politician. Its the same thing.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 12:56
by RipeBanana
Cityskier wrote:
RipeBanana wrote:If I was a New Yorker, I think the thing I'd be most pissed about is the silence from Eliot Spitzer. I guess he wants the unions on his side when he runs for Governor. He seems awfully quick to indict anything that moves if it serves him politically, and just as eager to ignore anything that doesn't.
He's one of the biggest self-serving scumbags around.
Truth.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 13:03
by andyzee
Cityskier wrote:
RipeBanana wrote:If I was a New Yorker, I think the thing I'd be most pissed about is the silence from Eliot Spitzer. I guess he wants the unions on his side when he runs for Governor. He seems awfully quick to indict anything that moves if it serves him politically, and just as eager to ignore anything that doesn't.
He's one of the biggest self-serving scumbags around.
Can't stand the sight of him.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 15:33
by St. Jerry
New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com
Throw Roger from the train!

Wednesday, December 21st, 2005

Roger Toussaint, we dare you to take to the Brooklyn Bridge this morning to tell the cold, walking throngs why you chose to disrupt the lives of millions, jacked up the expenses of tens of thousands, shuttered and crimped businesses, exposed the subway system to terrorism and generally threatened the public health and welfare.
It would be delicious watching you try to justify the reckless, lawless transit strike that you have inflicted on the city - assuming your fellow New Yorkers didn't hurl you over the railing into the icy waters before you got a word out. For this town, a labor town, is seething at getting hammered for no good reason.

The rage will only build as the public gets the full picture of how Toussaint rashly led the Transport Workers Union away from the bargaining table despite winning concession after concession from the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. The most furious of all should be the 33,700 workers who are on the street without paychecks and facing huge penalties for violating the Taylor Law.

They are about to lose thousands of dollars each - and their union will be financially broken by $1 million-a-day fines - unless they pressure Toussaint to return them to service, having gained all they are ever going to gain through his extortion. Remarkably, the president of the TWU International is urging the transit workers to go back to work on their own, en masse. And well they should, because the makings of a good deal await them.

The MTA wanted a two-year contract, while the union wanted a three-year deal. The MTA made it three years.

The union rejected raises of 3% a year. The MTA bumped yearly hikes to 3%, 4% and 3.5%, which compound to 11% over the life of the contract.

The union asked for more money. The MTA added a 0.5% bonus.

The union proposed Martin Luther King Day as a paid holiday, giving the workers 12 a year. The MTA agreed.

The union accused the MTA of subjecting large numbers of employees to arbitrary punishments. The MTA proposed hiring an independent consultant to recommend disciplinary system reforms.

The union balked at having new workers - and only new workers - contribute 1% of their salaries for health insurance. The MTA dropped the idea even though skyrocketing health costs are fueling a deficit projected at almost $1 billion.

And there was progress even on the most difficult issue: pensions. Transit workers now contribute 2% of salary to pensions and can retire at half pay after 25 years on the job at age 55. The costs are bankrupting the MTA and driving up fares. That's why the agency proposed requiring newly hired workers to stay on the job until age 62 and to kick in 3%.

When the TWU adamantly opposed raising the retirement age, the MTA retreated to 55 and both sides began discussing whether new workers should contribute 3%, 5% or 6%, and for how long. But Toussaint abruptly ended the talks, and the strike was on. So irrational was his action that a third of Toussaint's executive board voted against the walkout, and TWU International President Michael O'Brien is calling on the strikers "to report to work."

Any fair reading of the record demonstrates that MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow negotiated in good faith, met Toussaint more than halfway and was prepared to keep the discussions going for as long as they took. Toussaint, meanwhile, betrayed his members and the city in an act of madness.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 15:48
by tekweezle
The problem is the people of new york are taking this personally, its not about them.
well if the TWU was expecting any sympathy from many other NYers, they or rather Roger Toussaint picked a terrible time to flex their muscles. it does hit a sore spot for this to happen at this time.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 21:04
by Steve
tyrolean_skier wrote:You are a heartless person to wish such bad fortune on people that have no choice to strike because their union leaders decided to do so. I would like to see how you would feel if you were in their position.

I would SOOOOO Cross the picket line..
I would be so proud to be a scab in this strike.
It would be worth having a strike to be a scab in this strike.

ANd by the way, when you get a clue about how I think, then respond to me. Otherwise, you're wasting your time.

/Ultra shitty two days of travel to whistler. Unbelievably bad.
//You're not helping
///It's r*ining here, too.

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 21:12
by Pedro
Steve wrote:
I would SOOOOO Cross the picket line..
I would be so proud to be a scab in this strike.
It would be worth having a strike to be a scab in this strike.

ANd by the way, when you get a clue about how I think, then respond to me. Otherwise, you're wasting your time.

/Ultra shitty two days of travel to whistler. Unbelievably bad.
//You're not helping
///It's r*ining here, too.
1) Have you ever been in a labor union? you wouldn't cross the line, the only benefit a token collecter has in life is the union, and you don't cross that sh*t, otherwise why be a token collector.

2) Thats what you get for planning a trip to whistler a year out

Posted: Dec 21st, '05, 21:23
by Skibumtress
I have to agree with Ty...... the people I feel the most sorry for are those Union workers who didn't want to strike but had no choice....... those who are being fined 2 days for every day they strike, those who have families to provide for, etc. and it's Holiday Season on top of all that. :evil:
When all is said and done, I'm sure it will be at least a week's pay (if not more) that they will be fined. I'm sure many of these folks can't afford to be without a week's pay.