Mister Moose wrote:
I think that it is foolish for the industry to rely on real estate sales, as they will run out at some point. Not that some churn and burn artist can't make out in the meantime.
Yeah, but SP Land is, by definition, a churn & burn outfit.
Read this about what Eiger (now called E2M Partners LLC after a merger with 2M Real Estate in 2004) was trying to do with Centex:
In 2005, a national homebuilder signed a contract to acquire approximately 213 acres of SPLC's land inventory.
Guess what... those 213 acres were the Snowshed parking lot and other parcels in Killington basin. From what Eiger has written on their own web site, SP Land exists to dump real estate holdings to developers at a big profit. They don't own and operate ski resorts. Somehow, I'm beginning to question if SP Land will have the deep pockets to fix Killington. It's more likely that they're a temporary owner until they find a developer to buy the whole shootin' works.
but I have a sneaking suspicion that SOME of us might look back at the Salutary neglect of ASC and value it more then the hands on approach of SP land.
Lets face it guys Pres Smith isn't walking through that door
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
laseranimal wrote:
Last I checked overall skier numbers are flat somewhere around 50 to 54 million a year, I don't have last years numbers in front of me, but I'd be shocked if it was over that.
Then prepare to be shocked. The ski industry is definitely on a growth track - slow but definitely measurable. Last year's visits nudged 59 million in a lackluster year for the northeast. This year's will most likely be down and not by a little due to poor conditions in the Sierra, midwest, northeast and mid-atlantic. Read the numbers.
Demographics are helping, but one thing that's helping is that resorts are getting serious about the first time experience. Even during the flat growth period there was no lack of first-time skiers and riders - but resorts were doing a lousy job with that first-time experience and people weren't coming back.
SP Land is a real estate investor, and would always look to transact vs develop. Their purchase was a necessary step, which may well turn out to be an intermediate one. POWDR should be the focus,
summitchallenger wrote:Any thoughts as to what this means for operations of the ski area and prices?
I would think any new company would use this to cut a lot of the fat. Various programs like the Vermonter Card would prabably go. Nevertheless, since SP Land Company, LLC will be acting more like a holding company, they won't shake things up a lot to start.
Mister Moose wrote:
I think that it is foolish for the industry to rely on real estate sales, as they will run out at some point. Not that some churn and burn artist can't make out in the meantime.
Yeah, but SP Land is, by definition, a churn & burn outfit.
Read this about what Eiger (now called E2M Partners LLC after a merger with 2M Real Estate in 2004) was trying to do with Centex:
In 2005, a national homebuilder signed a contract to acquire approximately 213 acres of SPLC's land inventory.
Guess what... those 213 acres were the Snowshed parking lot and other parcels in Killington basin. From what Eiger has written on their own web site, SP Land exists to dump real estate holdings to developers at a big profit. They don't own and operate ski resorts. Somehow, I'm beginning to question if SP Land will have the deep pockets to fix Killington. It's more likely that they're a temporary owner until they find a developer to buy the whole shootin' works.
I have similar expectations. Just who else did you think I was refering to? Not that I expect by using the word "burn" that it will look bad, or be built with poor materials. I just expect to see a short term real estate profit with less care/vision of the long term, and then a sale of the area.
Mister Moose wrote:
I think that it is foolish for the industry to rely on real estate sales, as they will run out at some point. Not that some churn and burn artist can't make out in the meantime.
Yeah, but SP Land is, by definition, a churn & burn outfit.
Read this about what Eiger (now called E2M Partners LLC after a merger with 2M Real Estate in 2004) was trying to do with Centex:
In 2005, a national homebuilder signed a contract to acquire approximately 213 acres of SPLC's land inventory.
Guess what... those 213 acres were the Snowshed parking lot and other parcels in Killington basin. From what Eiger has written on their own web site, SP Land exists to dump real estate holdings to developers at a big profit. They don't own and operate ski resorts. Somehow, I'm beginning to question if SP Land will have the deep pockets to fix Killington. It's more likely that they're a temporary owner until they find a developer to buy the whole shootin' works.
Hammock Dunes is a master planned, private, gated oceanfront golf community located on the Atlantic Ocean midway between Daytona Beach, Florida and St. Augustine, Florida.
The community's amenity package and infrastructure were complete and the residential units were approximately 40% sold when the development was acquired in 1999. We acquired the balance of the assets at a significant discount to value.
Terry Pendleton, an E2M Principal, moved to Hammock Dunes and took over the development. Since acquisition we restructured the operations of the development, completed the lot development program and built the infrastructure required to enhance the amenity package. We have sold approximately 98% of the lot inventory, 100% of the condominium sites, and the marina site. Club membership sales have brought membership to approximately 70% of capacity and the balance has been reserved for the condominium developer.
Sounds somewhat reasonable.....?
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skifaster wrote:ok, listen or read again what I stated. For K to start charging everyone for parking is ridiculous. The preferred parking area is ridiculous also, it should be first come first served.
I guess all you guys will have no problem, good for you. I personally think its ridiculous, and ridiculous on your part to think its ok to have to pay for parking.
It's all part of your lift ticket.
I agree, I've never paid for parking at a ski resort.
My gut feeling is once they improve the on mountain infrastructure, lifts, base lodges, trail layout, improve skier traffic around KBL and the once the building of the Village starts you will be looking at paid parking.
As part of a vacation package you more than likely will be able to park at your lodging for free but day trippers will more than likely have to pay to park as well as be shuttled to the hill. Don't forget that they still have all the parking at the defunct Sunrise Area. There is a huge parking lot in front of the old lodge as well as on the other side of RT 100. They own additional land in that area that can be made into parking lots. Also don't forget the parking at the Skyship as well as expansion possibilities on Rt 4 for additional parking. In the future 5-7 years, or once the village is started and becomes operational day trippers will be relegated to these remote parking sites and be shuttled to the hill. At a destination resort the idea is to get you out and away from your car and then empty your pockets. If they provide a first class experience and the first class amenities they can even empty your pockets and have you feel good after. Just my $.02
First, parking for day trippers: Just put big lots down on rt. 4 and run the Skyship all the time. Figure a way to get the masses from there over to a new village and back so that they could stay in the village apres ski and get back to their cars at 8PM w/o any major hassle.
Another point that I think has been overlooked is making K a viable destination year round. I would need a real good reason to come there in the off season rather than other places in New England. What will set K apart. For example, if I want to hike, I'll head to the White Mountains, not K. If I want to mountain bike, I'll head to Kingdom Trails, not K. If I want to golf, there is no reason to go to K when plenty of courses are nearby, or if I want the mountain experience, SR and SL courses are far superior to K. But a Whistler-type village might bring me and many others to K to pursue any of the above. K can't survive if it only caters to skiers and boarders. The weather is too much of a crap shoot.
