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I was referring to the super bonus season that skiingsnow will be hyping next year where we'll start somewhere around Dec 5-10th to make sure early season conditions are absolutely ideal and then close up shop the last weekend in March

skiingsnow wrote:Given the lack of scanning, theres no way to come up with a truly accurate number. Many, many days of no scanning my pass. People skiing for free cus their express cards never got scanned.... People knowing which Pico lifts they dont scan at and ski all day free. The list goes on...

Doesn't matter, Ski visit numbers are not the measure of success.

Jesus, Skippy... let me be blunt: shut the hell up.

I ask a legitimate question, and you respond with a half-assed attempt to explain away Killington's presumably poor numbers in advance by a.) claiming that plenty of visits will be missed because Killington employees are incompetent, and b.) who cares about skier vists, anyway?

Now go weld something.

(In all fairness, maybe Skippy's angling for that TWO-scoop ice cream cone!)

laseranimal wrote:I was referring to the super bonus season that skiingsnow will be hyping next year where we'll start somewhere around Dec 5-10th to make sure early season conditions are absolutely ideal and then close up shop the last weekend in March

The operating schedule has already been announced for next season. Mid November to Mid April.

so thats a 5 month season.

JerseyGuy wrote:

skiingsnow wrote:Given the lack of scanning, theres no way to come up with a truly accurate number. Many, many days of no scanning my pass. People skiing for free cus their express cards never got scanned.... People knowing which Pico lifts they dont scan at and ski all day free. The list goes on...

Doesn't matter, Ski visit numbers are not the measure of success.

Jesus, Skippy... let me be blunt: shut the hell up.

I ask a legitimate question, and you respond with a half-assed attempt to explain away Killington's presumably poor numbers in advance by a.) claiming that plenty of visits will be missed because Killington employees are incompetent, and b.) who cares about skier vists, anyway?

Now go weld something.

(In all fairness, maybe Skippy's angling for that TWO-scoop ice cream cone!)

Explain the low numbers? The explaining was already done, like 10 months ago, that skier visit numbers are not the measure of success. They planned to lower the number of visits significantly. This was one of the most important things they set out to accomplish from day 1.

They told you that then, so you wouldn't be sitting here now, begging to see if someone "beat" them, when Killington is still the one that really won, regardless of the numbers.

skiingsnow wrote:

JerseyGuy wrote:

skiingsnow wrote:Given the lack of scanning, theres no way to come up with a truly accurate number. Many, many days of no scanning my pass. People skiing for free cus their express cards never got scanned.... People knowing which Pico lifts they dont scan at and ski all day free. The list goes on...

Doesn't matter, Ski visit numbers are not the measure of success.

Jesus, Skippy... let me be blunt: shut the hell up.

I ask a legitimate question, and you respond with a half-assed attempt to explain away Killington's presumably poor numbers in advance by a.) claiming that plenty of visits will be missed because Killington employees are incompetent, and b.) who cares about skier vists, anyway?

Now go weld something.

(In all fairness, maybe Skippy's angling for that TWO-scoop ice cream cone!)

Explain the low numbers? The explaining was already done, like 10 months ago, that skier visit numbers are not the measure of success. They planned to lower the number of visits significantly. This was one of the most important things they set out to accomplish from day 1.

They told you that then, so you wouldn't be sitting here now, begging to see if someone "beat" them, when Killington is still the one that really won, regardless of the numbers.

More like they new they were gonna be beat, so they just accepted loser status 10 months ago.

skiingsnow wrote:

laseranimal wrote:I was referring to the super bonus season that skiingsnow will be hyping next year where we'll start somewhere around Dec 5-10th to make sure early season conditions are absolutely ideal and then close up shop the last weekend in March

The operating schedule has already been announced for next season. Mid November to Mid April.

Whats that November 20th to April 10th?? Giving the almighty K a "massive" 141 operating days

And SS, aren't you the slightest bit worried that you'll have LESS of an opportunity next season to take your beloved snowmaking pics given how much "extra" snow Powdr made this year??

DrJeff wrote:

skiingsnow wrote:

laseranimal wrote:I was referring to the super bonus season that skiingsnow will be hyping next year where we'll start somewhere around Dec 5-10th to make sure early season conditions are absolutely ideal and then close up shop the last weekend in March

The operating schedule has already been announced for next season. Mid November to Mid April.

Whats that November 20th to April 10th?? Giving the almoghty K a "massive" 141 operating days

And SS, aren't you the slightest bit worried that you'll have LESS of an opportunity next season to take your beloved snowmaking pics given how much "extra" snow Powdr made this year??

Probably Nov 14 to April 19. Weather permitting.


They had already said that bmmc would be moved a week later, and such, as Easter comes around at a better time...

Theres a lot of snowmaking on the docket for next season!!

skiingsnow wrote:

Coydog wrote:So how do you define success – total revenue, net profit, management bonuses, customer satisfaction?

Before: Remodeled Bathrooms.

After: $8.4 Million including a high speed quad, and a multitude of other upgrades, improvements, and maintenence.

Customer Satisifaction. For the most part, I believe this to have been accomplished. I think most people are like Geoff, happy with everything, until the late season thing. And I dont think most folks even care about that, so its all smiles.

That’s quite an unconventional definition in the business world. But whatever, we’ll call it investing in the future – not a bad thing.

I do think you severely overestimate the number of smiles out there – particularly from pass holders. That could be a leading indicator of potential problems to come.

skiingsnow wrote:

DrJeff wrote:

skiingsnow wrote:

laseranimal wrote:I was referring to the super bonus season that skiingsnow will be hyping next year where we'll start somewhere around Dec 5-10th to make sure early season conditions are absolutely ideal and then close up shop the last weekend in March

The operating schedule has already been announced for next season. Mid November to Mid April.

Whats that November 20th to April 10th?? Giving the almoghty K a "massive" 141 operating days

And SS, aren't you the slightest bit worried that you'll have LESS of an opportunity next season to take your beloved snowmaking pics given how much "extra" snow Powdr made this year??

Probably Nov 14 to April 19. Weather permitting.


They had already said that bmmc would be moved a week later, and such, as Easter comes around at a better time...

Theres a lot of snowmaking on the docket for next season!!

weather permitting should work both ways. This year, it hasn't

Coydog wrote: That’s quite an unconventional definition in the business world. But whatever, we’ll call it investing in the future – not a bad thing.

I do think you severely overestimate the number of smiles out there – particularly from pass holders. That could be a leading indicator of potential problems to come.

That’s what they said when they got here. Not the ski numbers, customer satisfaction. As has been pointed out today. They still open the lodges, run the lifts, and so on, all costs the same, they could cram the slopes with more people, and get pure profit. They set out to do the opposite, for higher customer satisfaction. Then they turned around and put the profits into the resort.

SkiDork wrote: weather permitting should work both ways. This year, it hasn't

What about the week extension?

And I swear to god guys, the only thing top to bottom this weekend was Superstar. The runout from the canyon has been done for a while now, by a long shot...

Hiking is all good and great, but thats just not the product they wish to provide, while they are open. Neither is a long season.

skiingsnow wrote:They planned to lower the number of visits significantly.

"Significantly", huh? Tell you what, Skippy -- go back and find me something written from anyone at Powdr or Killington that said that they were planning to lower the number of visits significantly.

I want to see, in writing, where anyone who works for that company EVER said that.

Go ahead, Skip. We'll all be waiting here with baited breath for your findings.

skiingsnow wrote:They told you that then, so you wouldn't be sitting here now, begging to see if someone "beat" them, when Killington is still the one that really won, regardless of the numbers.

Killington still "won"? Really? How? How exactly did Killington "beat" all of the other ski areas in the East this season? I'll make it easier for you: how did they "beat" all of the other ski areas in Vermont this season?

We're waiting, Chris.

skiingsnow wrote:

Coydog wrote: That’s quite an unconventional definition in the business world. But whatever, we’ll call it investing in the future – not a bad thing.

I do think you severely overestimate the number of smiles out there – particularly from pass holders. That could be a leading indicator of potential problems to come.

That’s what they said when they got here. Not the ski numbers, customer satisfaction. As has been pointed out today. They still open the lodges, run the lifts, and so on, all costs the same, they could cram the slopes with more people, and get pure profit. They set out to do the opposite, for higher customer satisfaction. Then they turned around and put the profits into the resort.

Lots of unhappy customers in my book. More than happy ones. Looks pretty unsuccessful to me.

I think it is rather disingenuous to claim that customers must be more satisfied because there are fewer of them. We have really entered a new era in double speak. Meanwhile, here is what Killington's competitors up the street had to say:

"Although early snowfall motivated skiers and riders at the start of the season and bolstered their enthusiasm throughout the winter," says Okemo Vice President of Marketing Scott Clarkson, "much of this year's success can be attributed to season pass sales. Okemo saw a 30 percent increase in season pass sales this year." (From Alpine Zone)