Ukraine / Russia

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Fancypants
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

Post by Fancypants »

easyrider16 wrote: Apr 6th, '22, 15:03 You are way off topic, but suffice it to say that withdrawing from the Iran nuclear deal was one of Trump's greatest diplomatic failures. As a direct result, Iran has advanced its nuclear program and is much closer to producing a nuclear weapon, and a new deal could be much more difficult to make effective considering how far Iran has advanced since orange man torpedoed the original deal.
If the other countries involved in the original deal are still adhering to the terms of the agreement why are the Iranians so much closer to enriching weapons grade material?
easyrider16 wrote: Apr 6th, '22, 15:03 As for Trump's rationale that the deal did nothing to stop Iran's support for terrorism, I've seen no indication that Iran has slowed their support of terrorism since Trump pulled us out of the deal. On the other hand, it would be nice to have Iran's oil flowing into the world economy right about now.

https://www.vox.com/23002229/return-ira ... -explained
Nothing will ever stop Iran's support for terrorism but curtailing their ability to finance it is extremely effective. Why not have more American oil flowing into the world economy?
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

Post by easyrider16 »

Fancypants wrote: Apr 7th, '22, 20:40 If the other countries involved in the original deal are still adhering to the terms of the agreement why are the Iranians so much closer to enriching weapons grade material?
Click the link I posted and read about it. The short answer is that when the U.S. pulled out of the deal, Iran considered it a breach of the agreement (which it was) and began producing enriched uranium again.
Fancypants wrote: Apr 7th, '22, 20:40Nothing will ever stop Iran's support for terrorism but curtailing their ability to finance it is extremely effective. Why not have more American oil flowing into the world economy?
What's the evidence for the assertion that curtailing their ability to finance it is extremely effective? Trump had years to exert his "maxium pressure" campaign and it seemingly did nothing that I can tell to stop Iran from supporting terrorism. As for American oil, that's a total non-sequitir. The U.S. is increasing oil production but it takes time to ramp up. On the other hand, Iran could be pumping today, right now, another 1.5-2 million barrels per day into the world economy had Trump not pulled us from the deal.

But let me break this down for you Barney-style: Iran with a nuclear weapon is far, far scarier than Iran with the money to support terrorists. Obama's deal was working to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. Trump's decision to remove us from the deal and exert "maximum pressure" has led us closer to a place where Iran both supports terrorism AND has a nuclear weapon.
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

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From Politico, an interesting read on the changes made in the Ukrainian military over the past decade, changes that have allowed them to perform as well as they have against the Russian invasion

Ukraine’s 'iron general' is a hero, but he's no star

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/0 ... mGOwlzrQl0
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Fancypants
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

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easyrider16 wrote: Apr 8th, '22, 06:20
Fancypants wrote: Apr 7th, '22, 20:40 If the other countries involved in the original deal are still adhering to the terms of the agreement why are the Iranians so much closer to enriching weapons grade material?
Click the link I posted and read about it. The short answer is that when the U.S. pulled out of the deal, Iran considered it a breach of the agreement (which it was) and began producing enriched uranium again.
I did read the link, Vox.com is far from a reliable source for anything I would calls news and the article is frought with slanted opinion.
Fancypants wrote: Apr 7th, '22, 20:40Nothing will ever stop Iran's support for terrorism but curtailing their ability to finance it is extremely effective. Why not have more American oil flowing into the world economy?
easyrider16 wrote: Apr 8th, '22, 06:20What's the evidence for the assertion that curtailing their ability to finance it is extremely effective? Trump had years to exert his "maxium pressure" campaign and it seemingly did nothing that I can tell to stop Iran from supporting terrorism. As for American oil, that's a total non-sequitir. The U.S. is increasing oil production but it takes time to ramp up. On the other hand, Iran could be pumping today, right now, another 1.5-2 million barrels per day into the world economy had Trump not pulled us from the deal.
Why are we ramping up US fossil fuel production? Wasn't it running pretty much at full power in 2020? Weren't we, as a country, energy independant less than a year and a half ago? Weren't fossil fuels 1/2 the cost even without Iran pumping oil into the global market? Why did this happen?
easyrider16 wrote: Apr 8th, '22, 06:20But let me break this down for you Barney-style: Iran with a nuclear weapon is far, far scarier than Iran with the money to support terrorists. Obama's deal was working to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. Trump's decision to remove us from the deal and exert "maximum pressure" has led us closer to a place where Iran both supports terrorism AND has a nuclear weapon.
Thanks for breaking it down to my intellectual level, much appreciated!
Last edited by Fancypants on Apr 9th, '22, 20:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

Post by easyrider16 »

Fancypants wrote: Apr 8th, '22, 20:14 I did read the link, Vox.com is far from a reliable source for anything I would calls news and the article is frought with slanted opinion.
I see this sort of response far too frequently in political discussions. If you are skeptical of a source, the next step is to look for the information from other sources and see what can be confirmed or contradicted. A blanket refusal to even consider the facts a source is presenting without doing further inquiry is as bad as accepting anything a source says uncritically. It's the same sort of intellectual laziness that opens one up to easy manipulation.
Fancypants wrote: Apr 8th, '22, 20:14Why are we ramping up US fossil fuel production? Wasn't it running pretty much at full power in 2020? Weren't we, as a country, energy independant less than a year and a half ago? Weren't fossil fuels fuel 1/2 the cost even without Iran pumping oil into the global market? Why did this happen?
I suggest you take a look at the $6 gas thread for more detailed discussions of this issue. We were never "energy independent." Even if we produced more oil than we consumed, that does not make us independent because oil is a global market. If Saudi Arabia, for example, decided to cut production, prices would still skyrocket even if we were a net exporter. As for changes in U.S. oil production, that has to do with market forces. There was a fracking boom that expanded production until covid killed demand. Then companies scaled way back. They are now ramping up again, but much more conservatively. None of this was within U.S. government control.
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Fancypants
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

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easyrider16 wrote: Apr 9th, '22, 06:53
Fancypants wrote: Apr 8th, '22, 20:14Why are we ramping up US fossil fuel production? Wasn't it running pretty much at full power in 2020? Weren't we, as a country, energy independant less than a year and a half ago? Weren't fossil fuels fuel 1/2 the cost even without Iran pumping oil into the global market? Why did this happen?
I suggest you take a look at the $6 gas thread for more detailed discussions of this issue. We were never "energy independent." Even if we produced more oil than we consumed, that does not make us independent because oil is a global market. If Saudi Arabia, for example, decided to cut production, prices would still skyrocket even if we were a net exporter. As for changes in U.S. oil production, that has to do with market forces. There was a fracking boom that expanded production until covid killed demand. Then companies scaled way back. They are now ramping up again, but much more conservatively. None of this was within U.S. government control.
Sorry to say that your explanation is nothing more than a hot pile of steaming excrement. Entirely due to US government policy and regulation.
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

Post by easyrider16 »

Fancypants wrote: Apr 11th, '22, 20:03 Sorry to say that your explanation is nothing more than a hot pile of steaming excrement. Entirely due to US government policy and regulation.
Oh, so I guess I should just take your word for it and ignore all the contrary evidence?
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

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From Time Magazine

What the U.S. Military Needs to Learn from the Ukraine War
I
BY JAMES STAVRIDIS APRIL 11, 2022 6:00 AM EDT

Admiral Stavridis (Ret.), a TIME Contributing Editor, was the 16th Supreme Allied Commander at NATO and is Vice Chair, Global Affairs at The Carlyle Group and Chair of the Board of the Rockefeller Foundation. He is the co-author of 2034: A Novel of the Next World War. His most recent nonfiction book is "The Sailor's Bookshelf: 50 Books to Know the Sea."


As the brutal fighting continues in the Ukraine War, it seems likely to fundamentally upend the way we wage war in the 21st-century. From new tactics to equipment, the Russian invasion of Ukraine may presage fundamental changes in how war is conducted. What can Western militaries learn from the war thus far?

First, the extraordinary success the Ukrainian forces (armed with western technology) are enjoying against Russia armor. The numbers of tanks, armored vehicles, and heavy trucks destroyed by the Ukrainians are almost certainly in the thousands. This is largely the result of the hand-held anti-armor weapons provided by NATO countries (NLAWS from Britain, Javelins from the U.S., etc).

But it is also indicative of a tactical approach by the Ukrainians that fuses the intelligence provided by the West; the portability of the missile and drone systems; the employment of them by small, light special forces teams; and entirely new systems like the Switchblade drones.

Most importantly, each tank and armored vehicle destroyed means more dead Russians. Russian soldiers killed in action probably number around 15,000 over five weeks, which is staggering. As a point of comparison, the U.S. lost 7,000 in twenty years of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And the lost armor stocks will be difficult to replace in the short term. Each Russian tank costs more than $10 million, but each missile is only a hundred thousand dollars or so. War is hell, as General Sherman said in the American Civil War, but it is also expensive.

Is it time to write the obituary for the tank on the battlefield? Will they turn out to be the battleships of the 21st century, rendered obsolete by new technologies and tactics? It is certainly time to consider reducing tank inventories (as the U.S. Marine Corps is already doing) and using the resources to move toward new systems, notably unmanned. Tanks can still be effectively employed, but must be used in a coherent combined-arms manner that includes protection of them from such “cheap kill” mechanisms.

Second, the concept of close air support is increasingly at risk as well. Alongside the concerns about the efficacy of heavy armor are about the vulnerability of helicopters. We are seeing $18 million Russian attack helicopters destroyed by a hundred thousand dollar stingers—over and over. This was a key tactic in allowing the Afghanistan mujahideen to defeat the Soviet Union in the 1980s. Again, the economics of this, especially for a weak economy like Russia, are daunting, as well as replacing trained pilots.

And that is before new swarm drone systems come into full force. As artificial intelligence becomes a wartime reality, the ability to control large numbers of unmanned systems and operate them in synch to attack large relatively less maneuverable platforms like helicopters and troop transports. We are at the leading edge of achieving this capability, and doing so augers badly for expensive manned aircraft, especially those that operate routinely near to the ground.

The lesson here is not (yet) to fully walk away from manned aircraft providing the close support on the battlefield. But the Ukrainian war is a warning that we should be spending more on research and development that improves unmanned air systems, both in ground attack and in anti-air capacities; leverage improvements in artificial intelligence to make them operate synergistically together; and experiment with such capabilities aggressively to be able to provide close air support from higher altitudes and with unmanned, less expensive vehicles controlled directly by ground forces.

Third, another key factor on the Ukrainian battlefield has been the ability of Western intelligence systems to track Russian formations and provide real-time targeting directly to the Ukrainians. This has led not only to high levels of Russians killed in action, but also to operations killing Russian general officers. This in turn creates chaotic conditions, with numerous reports indicating a lack of coherent command and control on the battlefield, and operations being directed from Moscow.

When I was Supreme Allied Commander at NATO, in strategic command of the Afghan operation, I could not have imagined taking tactical control of 150,000 troops in the field. Yet that is exactly what appears to be happing in Ukraine, with attendant failures. The lesson is that by providing real-time, highly precise targeting to forces in the field, a belligerent can help undermine one of the true centers-of-gravity in combat: a coherent command and control system anchored by capable senior leaders.

Finally, we should learn from the continuing Russian playbook of what are clearly war crimes. We need to appreciate that our opponents are going to utilize horrible tactics that are in fact war crimes: destruction of civilian infrastructure (including internet and cyber systems) with indiscriminate fires; false flag operations replete with deep fake videos; weaponizing civilian populations by creating the conditions for mass movements, taxing the logistics of the nation under attack; utilization of unprincipled mercenaries like the Wagner Group, Chechens, and Syrians; and at least threatening the use of chemical and nuclear weapons.

All of this has been called “hybrid” or “gray zone” warfare, and we’ve seen the Russians go to this list of dirty tricks in Afghanistan, Chechnya, and Syria over the past several decades. We need to do a better job of preparing to face these new realities on the battlefield. Obviously, we will not use these techniques, but we need to reverse engineer and blunt them in our training and equipment choices. This means training our troops to operate in chemical and biological environments more effectively; providing more civil support to local populations to defuse the impact of refugees; sharpen our ability to collect evidence to undermine fake videos and propaganda; and hone our responses to battlefield cyber attacks to include offensive options.

A new tactical triad is emerging in the 21st century battlefield—special forces, unmanned systems, and cyber will be far more important going forward. While legacy systems from tanks to destroyers to close air support aircraft will retain utility, we need to rethink our way of war. Sadly, there is much to learn from the battlefields of Ukraine.
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

Post by XtremeJibber2001 »

Bubba I think the biggest differentiator in this war is the superiority of western intelligence. Also, probably Russian hubris. Anyway, RIP Moskva.

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Re: Ukraine / Russia

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US publicly announces it sent anti ship cruise missiles to Ukraine.
Russia does not move the flagship of the Black Sea fleet.
Said flagship mysteriously blows up.

Gosh, I wonder what happened.

This war is demonstrating a lot of improved US weaponry that hasn't been on display before. If the Russians capture any of it, it will be a significant knowledge gain for them.
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

Post by easyrider16 »

It's an intelligence bonanza for both sides. The U.S. is learning a lot about Russian weapons and capabilities (or lack thereof).
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

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XtremeJibber2001 wrote: Apr 14th, '22, 08:26 Bubba I think the biggest differentiator in this war is the superiority of western intelligence. Also, probably Russian hubris. Anyway, RIP Moskva.

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" .. The Moskva gained notoriety early in the war when the crew demanded the surrender of Ukrainian forces on Snake Island, prompting a riposte from one of the border guards on the island: “Russian warship, go f*** yourself.” .. Guardian

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Re: Ukraine / Russia

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brownman wrote: Apr 14th, '22, 18:23
XtremeJibber2001 wrote: Apr 14th, '22, 08:26 Bubba I think the biggest differentiator in this war is the superiority of western intelligence. Also, probably Russian hubris. Anyway, RIP Moskva.

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:seeya

" .. The Moskva gained notoriety early in the war when the crew demanded the surrender of Ukrainian forces on Snake Island, prompting a riposte from one of the border guards on the island: “Russian warship, go f*** yourself.” .. Guardian

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Re: Ukraine / Russia

Post by easyrider16 »

If war wasn't so terrible we would enjoy it too much.
Ukraine's minister of defense Oleksii Reznikov: "We have one more diving spot in the Black Sea now," accompanying the post with an image of a deep-sea diver swimming alongside a turtle.
Ukrainian MP Lesia Vasylenko: "Now it's part of the submarine fleet."
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Re: Ukraine / Russia

Post by easyrider16 »

What a disaster this war has been for Putin:
Finland and Sweden are preparing to simultaneously submit membership applications to NATO, Nordic media reported on Monday.

This could happen as early as mid-May. The Finnish newspaper Iltalehti says that Sweden "suggested the two countries indicate their willingness to join" the alliance on the same day, and Finland agreed "as long as the Swedish government has made its decision."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/re ... bfbbc54ee1
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