Moderators: SkiDork, spanky, Bubba
I believe they added pads at Bear when they first got the World Cup. There are 13 compressors there currently. They could be feeding water from the top and bottom on SS, effectively doubling the pipe's capacity. Regardless, I'm sure Jeff knows how much water he needs for the World Cup build out, and knows how much water he needs to do GN top to bottom, simple math probably led him to conclude "nope" for Saturday morning. Doesn't mean GN T2B won't happen later in the weekend. Typical Kzone tempest in a teapot. We are totally over-analyzing this. Just assume that World Cup will get as much as it can take, GN gets the rest. Well, that and Upper East Fail.newpylong1 wrote:Those two trails will not max out their water capacity as the pipe diameter is not large enough. There are about a hundred hydrants on SS - they only double up at the bottom to cover the finish using portable manifolds. I believe about 50 towers on Skye Lark.
Air is always the limiting factor in early season. At some point the curves cross and the opposite becomes true. They have 12 pads at each location and they are usually full. This supplements their in house electric for a combined 73,000 CFM. No one else in the US comes close to this much air capacity.
Yes, even with the additional rentals, the WC effects their expansion capability. But this assumes that they A) chose to lease that air regardless and B) they took a chance marching down earlier. Even prior to the WC they had a cautious approach to T2B. When others dusted and run and had to close K was able to stay open. Different philosophies.
Are you sure?rogman wrote: I'm sure Jeff knows how much water he needs for the World Cup build out, and knows how much water he needs to do GN top to bottom.
Well of course we are...I'm sure it's not just me, once snowmaking starts, we are either skiing, or thinking about skiing!rogman wrote:We are totally over-analyzing
The World Cup seems to have little effect on terrain expansion over the past three years and I expect the same results again. T2B by Sunday is my guess.DES wrote:Well of course we are...I'm sure it's not just me, once snowmaking starts, we are either skiing, or thinking about skiing!rogman wrote:We are totally over-analyzing
Don't discount all anonymous sources - some remain anonymous for good reason. Jeff has more experience in one finger than most will in their entire life. I have met Jeff and been through their snowmaking plant numerous times. It is highly unique and a living organism in it's own right. The contractors who have built out their system have done extensive work to ours as well. I am merely trying to explain how it (and most) works in general. If people do not want additional information, I don't need to share it. Temple has things under control, that much is certain.hillbangin wrote:Are you sure?rogman wrote: I'm sure Jeff knows how much water he needs for the World Cup build out, and knows how much water he needs to do GN top to bottom.
I trust the anonymous sources on this board.
It's not like Temple has ever made snow for the last zillion years...........
Lol! Good one! And mostly true!rogman wrote:Mike: "Might r*in tomorrow... only a tenth of an inch."
Kzone:
"Monsoon tomorrow"
"They'll have to resurface"
"What'd he say? 10 inches of r*in?"
"That'll shutdown the mountain"
"OMG we'll need an ark"
"So that's what they're building by KBL"
"Are they going to take 2 of everything?"
"Can Dork and I get on? We have passes."
"How about mid week pass holders?"
"I hope they take more than 2 snow makers"
"It'll probably just be marketing people"
"Do they even reproduce?"
"What about the King of Spring?"
"Nah, that unicorn's got to shoot the video"
"There doing this just to get rid of Kzone, aren't they?"
Mike: "Yup".
ME2VTSkier wrote:Lol! Good one! And mostly true!rogman wrote:Mike: "Might r*in tomorrow... only a tenth of an inch."
Kzone:
"Monsoon tomorrow"
"They'll have to resurface"
"What'd he say? 10 inches of r*in?"
"That'll shutdown the mountain"
"OMG we'll need an ark"
"So that's what they're building by KBL"
"Are they going to take 2 of everything?"
"Can Dork and I get on? We have passes."
"How about mid week pass holders?"
"I hope they take more than 2 snow makers"
"It'll probably just be marketing people"
"Do they even reproduce?"
"What about the King of Spring?"
"Nah, that unicorn's got to shoot the video"
"There doing this just to get rid of Kzone, aren't they?"
Mike: "Yup".
I appreciate your posts.newpylong1 wrote:Don't discount all anonymous sources - some remain anonymous for good reason. Jeff has more experience in one finger than most will in their entire life. I have met Jeff and been through their snowmaking plant numerous times. It is highly unique and a living organism in it's own right. The contractors who have built out their system have done extensive work to ours as well. I am merely trying to explain how it (and most) works in general. If people do not want additional information, I don't need to share it. Temple has things under control, that much is certain.hillbangin wrote:Are you sure?rogman wrote: I'm sure Jeff knows how much water he needs for the World Cup build out, and knows how much water he needs to do GN top to bottom.
I trust the anonymous sources on this board.
It's not like Temple has ever made snow for the last zillion years...........
Skyeship is probably just going through routine maintenance and/or possibly even annual inspection by the VT State Tramway boardSki-The-West wrote:Skyeship stage 2 is running right now. Wonder what they are doing over there. Also it's 30 degrees out but Superstar doesn't seem very lit up- I'd expect they would pull guns down a bit further as the temps drop but I guess not.
Yes, this is what I was referencing, in addition to possibly hiring more labor, not split water systems. Makes sense.Mister Moose wrote:I seem to remember that they typically brought in 10-12 additional rental compressors for the World Cup. Probably not enough to double capacity, but still quite an increase. That added capacity was the added 'system', I doubt there was ever any need or intention to separate the flows.Highway Star wrote:How much does Superstar take? IIRC it was about 50+ guns at once, possibly around 100+ including Skyelark for training. So in theory the WC prep could be taking up half their water capacity, maybe more, at any given time.spiderpig wrote: Is it a fallacy that there is extra, separate capacity for the World Cup and that does not affect their public expansion?
The capacity they did add is in rental air compressors. At marginal temps it allows them to run more guns when they would be otherwise be limited by air output. There is already a considerable amount of permanent air compressor capacity, the added compressors for WC amount to maybe a 25-35% increase in overall air, which certainly helps in marginal early season temps.
Regardless, if you look at how much they run the guns on the WC venue vs. everywhere else, it's pretty clear that public skiing is being sacrificed for the sake of the World Cup and the difference is not made up for by added capacity. They've lucked out the past few years, there is no guarantee of top to bottom skiing Thanksgiving weekend. Maybe there's not that much material difference because sometimes pre-WC era they held back with their output for budgetary reasons, with the big expansion coming in December.
Superstar alone has well over 80 guns on it, probably closer to 100. Given the limited terrain on North Ridge, they probably can blow both and not be water limited. Once you try to expand farther than that, you can probably outpace capacity. But for how long? Once the bulk of the build is done on Superstar and Skylark, all that added capacity gets turned onto expansion. So while there might well be a weather scenario where the WC costs some expansion for some time, after that the pendulum swings the other way, and more than makes up for it. I bet the answer here is very similar to many engineering questions, ie "It depends"
They are hitting Upper DD too, take a look at the North Ridge Cam, you can see at least one tower on DD in it and it is running.snoloco wrote:Snowmaking has begun on Downdraft Headwall and continues on East Fall and Great Northern. Not sure why they aren't working on Double Dipper yet.