Damage at K

[Stormchaser]

The Superstar Pub was constructed in the late-1990's. That was when environmental review was the absolute tightest it's ever been in Vermont. Before that, there was a pressure treated deck on that spot and a flood would have simply flowed underneath the deck.

The [sizing of the culvert under the lodge] was bad engineering. That has nothing to do with environmental impact studies.

Fixed it for you.

I believe the Vermont DOT standard for culvert design is the 25-year storm, as in MA...

25-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is roughly 4.5" for the region. 100-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is 5.5"...

I think both numbers would have been exceeded with this event.

[Stormchaser]

Vermont has to come up with a fast track way to repair these roads. the livelyhood of the entire economy depends on it.

In 2006 there were some crazy floods here in PA, my company was involved with the emergency repair/replacement of all of the bridges for PennDOT's Central Office. The environmental agencies and PennDOT got together and agreed on an expedited review/approval process for the permits. Then the design/construction consultants got them done. when put to task the contractors can ge things done quickly. It's usually the permitting that holds projects, up.

I have faith that the repairs can happen quickly, but it's going to take a lot of coordination and many people to make it happen.

State of MA passed legislation before Irene allowing repairs to be made without the need for environmental permits...

[jimmywilson69]

The Superstar Pub was constructed in the late-1990's. That was when environmental review was the absolute tightest it's ever been in Vermont. Before that, there was a pressure treated deck on that spot and a flood would have simply flowed underneath the deck.

The [sizing of the culvert under the lodge] was bad engineering. That has nothing to do with environmental impact studies.

Fixed it for you.

I believe the Vermont DOT standard for culvert design is the 25-year storm, as in MA...

25-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is roughly 4.5" for the region. 100-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is 5.5"...

I think both numbers would have been exceeded with this event.

Not only were they exceeded, they were exceeded in probably 12 hours which is even worse. Since it was the downstream end of the culvert that failed, there could have been pipe deteroriation that was unoticed. This would've caused the pipe sections to fail and the land to be washed away by the torrent of water that was being carried by the pipe.

Anyone know how big of a culvert it was? There is a fairly large drainage that contributes to that location.

[Stormchaser]

The Superstar Pub was constructed in the late-1990's. That was when environmental review was the absolute tightest it's ever been in Vermont. Before that, there was a pressure treated deck on that spot and a flood would have simply flowed underneath the deck.

The [sizing of the culvert under the lodge] was bad engineering. That has nothing to do with environmental impact studies.

Fixed it for you.

I believe the Vermont DOT standard for culvert design is the 25-year storm, as in MA...

25-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is roughly 4.5" for the region. 100-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is 5.5"...

I think both numbers would have been exceeded with this event.

Not only were they exceeded, they were exceeded in probably 12 hours which is even worse. Since it was the downstream end of the culvert that failed, there could have been pipe deteroriation that was unoticed. This would've caused the pipe sections to fail and the land to be washed away by the torrent of water that was being carried by the pipe.

Anyone know how big of a culvert it was? There is a fairly large drainage that contributes to that location.

I bet the failure was upstream at the culvert entrance. The water overwhelmed the cuvlert(s) and flowed overland. The grading allowed water from the culvert overflow to reach K-1 lodge. The water re-entered the stream at the cuvlert exit (just below the lodge), but being against the foundation, began eroding the fill around it and undermining the foundation. Once the bottom of the foudation was exposed and had no earth below it to support it, it fell into the hole.

[Berkshiregal]

Mosher has been too busy to locate his two cows, which
wandered off “free-grazing” after his pastureland was churned
into mud. “Someone called and said, ‘Your cow dumped on my
yard.’
“I told them I was a bit too busy to deal with it right
away.”

Excellent!

[Bubba]

The Superstar Pub was constructed in the late-1990's. That was when environmental review was the absolute tightest it's ever been in Vermont. Before that, there was a pressure treated deck on that spot and a flood would have simply flowed underneath the deck.

The [sizing of the culvert under the lodge] was bad engineering. That has nothing to do with environmental impact studies.

Fixed it for you.

I believe the Vermont DOT standard for culvert design is the 25-year storm, as in MA...

25-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is roughly 4.5" for the region. 100-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is 5.5"...

I think both numbers would have been exceeded with this event.

Based on my experience with another hurricane in the late 90s when I still lived in Rockland County, NY (we had 17" with that one in my area) my unscientific guess is we had more than a foot of r*in in 14 - 15 hours.

[roundabout]

I just was able to view the damage to Killington from T.S Irene in the last hour on Killingtonzone as I just regained my internet connection. I was without power from sunday at 9:50am to monday night at 11:45pm and without cable until today but the loss of power is a minor inconvenience compared to the destruction in Vermont.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all who have suffered from this storm in the K town community.

Kevin

[Bubba]

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/arti ... towns-?ody
ssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cs
Blackhawks to the rescue Again.....Saw the pics and recognized the #'s and I'm proud to say I worked on those HH's they used. Those are the ones with the red cross's painted on.

If we have any more choppers flying around this area we're going to need Red Rider for ATC. It sure has been busy around here today!

[Geoff]

The Superstar Pub was constructed in the late-1990's. That was when environmental review was the absolute tightest it's ever been in Vermont. Before that, there was a pressure treated deck on that spot and a flood would have simply flowed underneath the deck.

The [sizing of the culvert under the lodge] was bad engineering. That has nothing to do with environmental impact studies.

Fixed it for you.

I believe the Vermont DOT standard for culvert design is the 25-year storm, as in MA...

25-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is roughly 4.5" for the region. 100-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is 5.5"...

I think both numbers would have been exceeded with this event.

Hang on a second....

My criticism was that some PE signed off on a plan to run all of the drainage from Killington Basin down a pipe underneath the Superstar Pub. Mister Moose somehow morphed this into a pipe sizing problem. I don't know about any of you but I wouldn't want to buy a house that had 100% of the drainage from the local watershed running directly underneath it.

[Bubba]

The Superstar Pub was constructed in the late-1990's. That was when environmental review was the absolute tightest it's ever been in Vermont. Before that, there was a pressure treated deck on that spot and a flood would have simply flowed underneath the deck.

The [sizing of the culvert under the lodge] was bad engineering. That has nothing to do with environmental impact studies.

Fixed it for you.

I believe the Vermont DOT standard for culvert design is the 25-year storm, as in MA...

25-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is roughly 4.5" for the region. 100-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is 5.5"...

I think both numbers would have been exceeded with this event.

Hang on a second....

My criticism was that some PE signed off on a plan to run all of the drainage from Killington Basin down a pipe underneath the Superstar Pub. Mister Moose somehow morphed this into a pipe sizing problem. I don't know about any of you but I wouldn't want to buy a house that had 100% of the drainage from the local watershed running directly underneath it.

Remember, it was a deck before it was a pub. Had there only been a deck there, the deck would've collapsed - no big deal. Putting a building section in place of the deck was the decision that caused this failure.

[Highway Star]

The Superstar Pub was constructed in the late-1990's. That was when environmental review was the absolute tightest it's ever been in Vermont. Before that, there was a pressure treated deck on that spot and a flood would have simply flowed underneath the deck.

The [sizing of the culvert under the lodge] was bad engineering. That has nothing to do with environmental impact studies.

Fixed it for you.

I believe the Vermont DOT standard for culvert design is the 25-year storm, as in MA...

25-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is roughly 4.5" for the region. 100-year, 24-hour rainfall intensity is 5.5"...

I think both numbers would have been exceeded with this event.

Hang on a second....

My criticism was that some PE signed off on a plan to run all of the drainage from Killington Basin down a pipe underneath the Superstar Pub. Mister Moose somehow morphed this into a pipe sizing problem. I don't know about any of you but I wouldn't want to buy a house that had 100% of the drainage from the local watershed running directly underneath it.

Remember, it was a deck before it was a pub. Had there only been a deck there, the deck would've collapsed - no big deal. Putting a building section in place of the deck was the decision that caused this failure.

Putting the building in place without relocating the stream is the failure...

However, I think we've all seen some very serious runoff up there when it's 70 degrees out, r*ining, and 4 feet of snow on the ground. The pipe under KBL flowed hard but never seemed to be overloaded.

What they got from this storm was probably a 500-year event....which is what some of the flooded neighborhoods in Rutland were classed as on their flood map.

[Atomic1]

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/arti ... towns-?ody
ssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cs
Blackhawks to the rescue Again.....Saw the pics and recognized the #'s and I'm proud to say I worked on those HH's they used. Those are the ones with the red cross's painted on.

If we have any more choppers flying around this area we're going to need Red Rider for ATC. It sure has been busy around here today!

I think Killington needs to buy it's own Helicoptor just in case ! Meanwhile they can run a shuttle from Rutland...direct to pay for it ! I also think Vermont needs it's own for the future ! Helicoptors.......... gotta luv em !
And as far as the culvert, size etc.... don't think it mattered because debris got washed down and clogged the culverts, pipes , bridges etc. and thats when the trouble started. This is evident when you look at the pic, in front of Goodrow Lumber as all the old trees damaged in the past via, Ice storms, wind etc.... got washed down the mtn. made a clog along the line and then WOOOOSHHHHHHH ! And I'll bet that it was debris that clogged the culvert at the Superstar pub that led to the disaster.

[SkiPutt]

Mosher has been too busy to locate his two cows, which
wandered off “free-grazing” after his pastureland was churned
into mud. “Someone called and said, ‘Your cow dumped on my
yard.’
“I told them I was a bit too busy to deal with it right
away.”

Excellent!

I wonder if the donkey survived, probably not.

[chewbacca]

I can only tell you what it was like when it all began to happen down on Rt 4 & River Rd area. But, later on all that. One guy who should get alot of credit for gettting Rt4 East going again is Craig Mosher who went to work early Monday morning to clear up Rt4 and at least get it semi-operational. The guy is an inspiration. Here he is down at the office early Tuesday morning.

[Big Bob]

I got my Internet back yesterday also, had been lurking on my tablet. Sorry to see the pic of Shortskis house. You can always rebuild on higher ground, glad you had flood insurance.
Our area went through a similar flood, not as severe, but with roads washed out, flooded, can't get there from here, etc. When FEMA showed up they commented on how independent we were in getting things fixed and dealing with mother natures problems, on our own. I guess since we get snowstorms and constantly have to deal with mother nature, we just do it.
I was glad to see Craig Mosher take the bull by the horns and work to fix things, the heck with permits and all that BS. People are in need of the basics, and without our road infrastructure to access these items, people could die. I hope he gets compensated for his long hours and resources.
I would guess you would call this a 500 year flood. We had 2 of those a few years back, one year apart, so I guess it is a relative term.
In short order things will start to return to normal, it will happen faster than you think looking at the pictures. Locals and visitors will have a new respect for mother nature, I know I do after going thru multiple floods. My generator has over 400 hours on it now.