Skipping ahead to the Trump Shutdown, can anyone tell me whose fault it really is?
Congress. Because there is no budget, there is a CR. Because Trump won't sign the CR, there is no money in the till. This lies squarely at the feet of congress, who has not done the hard work to find a budget that the President will sign, or that has enough votes for an override. One or the other. And I'll throw an honorable mention to the electorate for putting up with it.
Wow, biased take much? At best you can say it's a failure of both Congress and the President. But certainly much of the blame lies at the President's feet with all his posturing and threatening to shut down the government if he doesn't get his wall.
It's certainly not Congress's job to "find a budget that the President will sign" - please. What about the President's responsibility to work with Congress to produce a budget that is a compromise both sides can live with? What has he done to facilitate that? What is he offering Congress in return for his wall? Short answer - nothing, because he sucks at negotiating. His idea of negotiating appears to be to threaten a shut down unless he gets his way.
Edit: it might also help if he stops lying about easily verifiable facts:
Skipping ahead to the Trump Shutdown, can anyone tell me whose fault it really is?
Congress. Because there is no budget, there is a CR. Because Trump won't sign the CR, there is no money in the till. This lies squarely at the feet of congress, who has not done the hard work to find a budget that the President will sign, or that has enough votes for an override. One or the other. And I'll throw an honorable mention to the electorate for putting up with it.
Wow, biased take much? At best you can say it's a failure of both Congress and the President. But certainly much of the blame lies at the President's feet with all his posturing and threatening to shut down the government if he doesn't get his wall.
It's certainly not Congress's job to "find a budget that the President will sign" - please. What about the President's responsibility to work with Congress to produce a budget that is a compromise both sides can live with? What has he done to facilitate that? What is he offering Congress in return for his wall? Short answer - nothing, because he sucks at negotiating. His idea of negotiating appears to be to threaten a shut down unless he gets his way.
Edit: it might also help if he stops lying about easily verifiable facts:
Oh, and btw, can't we blame Trump for the fact that he couldn't even get a Republican Congress to give him funding for his wall? Talk about inept.
Awww, geez, Edith. Which branch of government holds "the power of the purse"?
The rest of your post illustrates bias far better than mine.
To be fair, the Constitution only REQUIRES that spending bills originate in the house. The Senate changes, adds, subtracts all the time, As long as it ORIGINATED in the house.
Skipping ahead to the Trump Shutdown, can anyone tell me whose fault it really is?
Congress. Because there is no budget, there is a CR. Because Trump won't sign the CR, there is no money in the till. This lies squarely at the feet of congress, who has not done the hard work to find a budget that the President will sign, or that has enough votes for an override. One or the other. And I'll throw an honorable mention to the electorate for putting up with it.
Wow, biased take much? At best you can say it's a failure of both Congress and the President. But certainly much of the blame lies at the President's feet with all his posturing and threatening to shut down the government if he doesn't get his wall.
It's certainly not Congress's job to "find a budget that the President will sign" - please. What about the President's responsibility to work with Congress to produce a budget that is a compromise both sides can live with? What has he done to facilitate that? What is he offering Congress in return for his wall? Short answer - nothing, because he sucks at negotiating. His idea of negotiating appears to be to threaten a shut down unless he gets his way.
Edit: it might also help if he stops lying about easily verifiable facts:
Oh, and btw, can't we blame Trump for the fact that he couldn't even get a Republican Congress to give him funding for his wall? Talk about inept.
Awww, geez, Edith. Which branch of government holds "the power of the purse"?
The rest of your post illustrates bias far better than mine.
Oh so I guess your view is that any time a President threatens to veto a spending bill Congress should just give him whatever he wants? And if Congress passes a bill that funds the government but doesn't include a wall, and the President refuses to sign it, he bears zero responsibility for the resulting government shutdown?
Kpdemello wrote: Oh so I guess your view is that any time a President threatens to veto a spending bill Congress should just give him whatever he wants? And if Congress passes a bill that funds the government but doesn't include a wall, and the President refuses to sign it, he bears zero responsibility for the resulting government shutdown?
1st question: No, of course not.
2nd question: You're ignoring that in your example, Congress likely knows the President won't sign it before they send the bill. Plus you're ignoring that in order for that to occur, Congress must also fail to pass a budget. The President bears some responsibility. Congress bears more.
Kpdemello wrote: Oh so I guess your view is that any time a President threatens to veto a spending bill Congress should just give him whatever he wants? And if Congress passes a bill that funds the government but doesn't include a wall, and the President refuses to sign it, he bears zero responsibility for the resulting government shutdown?
1st question: No, of course not.
2nd question: You're ignoring that in your example, Congress likely knows the President won't sign it before they send the bill. Plus you're ignoring that in order for that to occur, Congress must also fail to pass a budget. The President bears some responsibility. Congress bears more.
If I recall correctly (feel free to double check) the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for the past two years along with the White House. If the Republicans had had the votes, Trump would've had his wall funding by now. It's obvious even the Republicans knew the wall was BS and wouldn't give it enough support. Our negotiator in chief couldn't even negotiate with his friends. Maybe he should turn to Mexico now for financial support? (Promises made; promise kept?)
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"
Killington Zone
You can checkout any time you like,
but you can never leave
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald
"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Mister Moose wrote:2nd question: You're ignoring that in your example, Congress likely knows the President won't sign it before they send the bill. Plus you're ignoring that in order for that to occur, Congress must also fail to pass a budget. The President bears some responsibility. Congress bears more.
Ah, well earlier you put the blame squarely on Congress. As I said, the blame lies with both. I'd put more blame on the President because he's pushing for something that neither Congress nor a majority of the public wants, and is on record as saying he's perfectly content to shut down the government to get it.
I do think, however, the Democrats are using this as an opportunity to needle the President. In the grand scheme of things, he's not asking for much (even if I disagree with it). But Trump is so abrasive and insulting to his opponents it's really not surprising that nobody wants to deal with him and will take every chance they can get to torpedo his agenda. Once again, I say he's not very good at negotiation and dealmaking. He's very good at threats and bravado, but dealmaking not so much.
Trump bears 100% responsibility for the shutdown. We know this because he said it.
"I'll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck," Trump said "So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it."
deadheadskier wrote:But if you are for the wall please defend why Trump is spreading two ridiculous lies.
A. 4000 terrorists caught at the southern border. Nope, DHS says about 12.
B. Living presidents have told him they support the wall and wished they did it themselves when in office. All have denied saying this to him.
You know, I really don't know how can anyone take the man seriously when he lies to you this blatantly. I mean he literally just makes stuff up and tweets it out. Remember the Obama's house has a 10 foot wall tweet that was also totally made up? It's not just that he lies, it's that he lies about things that are easily verifiable. This kind of lying should cause him to instantly lose credibility with just about everyone.
deadheadskier wrote:But if you are for the wall please defend why Trump is spreading two ridiculous lies.
A. 4000 terrorists caught at the southern border. Nope, DHS says about 12.
B. Living presidents have told him they support the wall and wished they did it themselves when in office. All have denied saying this to him.
You know, I really don't know how can anyone take the man seriously when he lies to you this blatantly. I mean he literally just makes stuff up and tweets it out. Remember the Obama's house has a 10 foot wall tweet that was also totally made up? It's not just that he lies, it's that he lies about things that are easily verifiable. This kind of lying should cause him to instantly lose credibility with just about everyone.
I bet you he could pass a lie detector test, He actually believes the things he is saying so it should be easy for him to pass.
Bubba wrote:If I recall correctly (feel free to double check) the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for the past two years along with the White House. If the Republicans had had the votes, Trump would've had his wall funding by now. It's obvious even the Republicans knew the wall was BS and wouldn't give it enough support. Our negotiator in chief couldn't even negotiate with his friends. Maybe he should turn to Mexico now for financial support? (Promises made; promise kept?)
^--- This
And the sea will grant each man new hope . . .
-Christopher Columbus
Bubba wrote:If I recall correctly (feel free to double check) the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for the past two years along with the White House. If the Republicans had had the votes, Trump would've had his wall funding by now. It's obvious even the Republicans knew the wall was BS and wouldn't give it enough support. Our negotiator in chief couldn't even negotiate with his friends. Maybe he should turn to Mexico now for financial support? (Promises made; promise kept?)
^--- This
Getting a continuing resolution through the Senate requires 60 votes to both open and close discussion. It's called cloture. Chuck Schumer is adamant that no wall funding be added, or zero chance at cloture. He is, for some reason, able to coral all of the Democrats so none vote against his mandates. This is why wall funding has not been held hostage until now. If I recall correctly, the last continuing resolution was passed back when there was some discussion of passing some type of relief for Dreamers in exchange for border security, AKA, THE WALL. As such I think Trump let it go at the time. If he knew then what he knows now, I am betting he would have refused to sign it back then too.
It's a complex issue when all of the politics get in the way. The Dems are attempting to make the current president fail to carry out his campaign promises, just like the Republicans did their best to make Obama's campaign promises fail. In many respects is tit for tat, and Trump is attempting to make this his point to the American people. I can think of better ways to "run a railroad".
deadheadskier wrote:But if you are for the wall please defend why Trump is spreading two ridiculous lies.
A. 4000 terrorists caught at the southern border. Nope, DHS says about 12.
B. Living presidents have told him they support the wall and wished they did it themselves when in office. All have denied saying this to him.
You know, I really don't know how can anyone take the man seriously when he lies to you this blatantly. I mean he literally just makes stuff up and tweets it out. Remember the Obama's house has a 10 foot wall tweet that was also totally made up? It's not just that he lies, it's that he lies about things that are easily verifiable. This kind of lying should cause him to instantly lose credibility with just about everyone.
Wall/fence.
Each person has a different perspective.
So it was 10 feet tall but you could see thru it, has the same effect as a solid wall.
Beware of fools & trolls here, they lurk everywhere.
That's not what I read. What I read is that there are security perimeters guarded by secret service, and some fencing here and there, but no 10 foot wall.
This is not someone just having a slightly different perspective. This is someone literally making stuff up and passing it on as fact.
According to CBP data provided to Congress, the agency encountered 41 people on the Terrorist Screening Database from Oct. 1, 2017, to March 31, 2018, along the U.S.-Mexico border, with 35 of them being American citizens or lawful permanent residents and only six of them classified as non-U.S. persons.
Later Monday night, White House adviser Kellyanne Conway acknowledged during an appearance on Fox News that Sanders had been conflating two very different statistics while trying to make her argument. In fiscal year 2017, federal officials stopped 3,755 people on the terrorist watch list from traveling to or entering the United States, but that includes people traveling through airports, seaports and land ports. The vast majority of those attempt to enter by air.
"That was an unfortunate misstatement," Conway said of Sanders. "Everybody makes mistakes, all of us. The fact is, it's corrected here."
So out of 3,755 people on terrorist watch lists caught entering the U.S., 41 crossed the southern border. Why in god's name would we waste money building a wall on the southern border when 98.9% of people on terrorist watch lists don't even cross that way? This is a huge waste of everyone's time and money. Thanks Trump, thanks a lot.
