Ax the r*in filter?

[XtremeJibber2001]

Is it really necessary to connect the dots?

Yes, please provide the link that does so, pretty please?

On another note, it's no shock Exxon devotes millions of dollars to spread disinformation ... if we stop relying on oil, the company flounders! Seen the Apple/PC commercials lately? Apple spreads disinformation about PC's to increase the use of their product ... and guess what, it costs money! I can't think of any corporation that wouldn't do anything and everything to stay in business and increase profits, do you?

edit: Bubba, this is the second time you've beat me to the punchline on the Global Warming issue! Is it possible you're a skeptic like myself?

[Bubba]

Is it really necessary to connect the dots?

Yes, please provide the link that does so, pretty please?

On another note, it's no shock Exxon devotes millions of dollars to spread disinformation ... if we stop relying on oil, the company flounders! Seen the Apple/PC commercials lately? Apple spreads disinformation about PC's to increase the use of their product ... and guess what, it costs money! I can't think of any corporation that wouldn't do anything and everything to stay in business and increase profits, do you?

edit: Bubba, this is the second time you've beat me to the punchline on the Global Warming issue! Is it possible you're a skeptic like myself?

I think the facts are reasonably clear. The earth has been warming since the middle of the last ice age. Humans are a contributing factor to some extent. For example, there are now 6 billion of us, all exhaling CO2, as opposed to less than half that number 100 years ago. There are probably also more sheep, cows, and other methane producers around as well. All contribute their share of greenhouse gases.

Does modern human industrial society contribute? Sure? Should we take steps to reduce emissions? Absolutely! Those steps I would support include:

New base load electricity generation should be nuclear.

All new automobiles should be hybrids by 2015.

Gasoline taxes should be raised $.10 per year until 2015, with offsetting reductions in social security taxes so that lower income people are kept reasonably whole.

RustyK should be barred from drinking beer or other fluids or foods that contribute to his methane production. (Anyone at the Grist Mill on Saturday night will understand.)

[robrules]

time to do some homework chickie-poo.
the Sun is the BRIGHTEST it has been in the past 1,000 years(Thats a Thousand) polar ice caps on Mars are also melting...now Did aAl Gore forget to enlighte you to that fact?
The SUN causes global warming......

"Don't beleave the Hipe"!

"Don't beleave the Hippy"!

[XtremeJibber2001]

Is it really necessary to connect the dots?

Yes, please provide the link that does so, pretty please?

On another note, it's no shock Exxon devotes millions of dollars to spread disinformation ... if we stop relying on oil, the company flounders! Seen the Apple/PC commercials lately? Apple spreads disinformation about PC's to increase the use of their product ... and guess what, it costs money! I can't think of any corporation that wouldn't do anything and everything to stay in business and increase profits, do you?

edit: Bubba, this is the second time you've beat me to the punchline on the Global Warming issue! Is it possible you're a skeptic like myself?

I think the facts are reasonably clear. The earth has been warming since the middle of the last ice age. Humans are a contributing factor to some extent. For example, there are now 6 billion of us, all exhaling CO2, as opposed to less than half that number 100 years ago. There are probably also more sheep, cows, and other methane producers around as well. All contribute their share of greenhouse gases.

Does modern human industrial society contribute? Sure? Should we take steps to reduce emissions? Absolutely! Those steps I would support include:

New base load electricity generation should be nuclear.

All new automobiles should be hybrids by 2015.

Gasoline taxes should be raised $.10 per year until 2015, with offsetting reductions in social security taxes so that lower income people are kept reasonably whole.

RustyK should be barred from drinking beer or other fluids or foods that contribute to his methane production. (Anyone at the Grist Mill on Saturday night will understand.)

I think those steps are both realistic and acceptable. I'm curious ... why raise the gas tax? Is this to push innovation? Where would the taxes be going? Perhaps to energy companies as an aid to help them with building and maintaining the Nuclear infrastructure that would hypothetically be in place?

So wait, you mean Manhattan will not be underwater by 2043?

[KBL Ed]

This is frightening. You're citing Al Gore as an authority on Global Warming.

Um, actually he is an authority.

I disagree ... the definition of the word authority:

an expert whose views are taken as definitive

Gore has a bachelor of Arts in Government, hardly an expert or an authority on anything scientific.

Dude, WTF is wrong with you? Is your world so black and white for every f-ing thing?? Someone needs a degree to be an authority?? WTF!

That said, I do respect Bubba's assertion that he may not be an authority for other reasons. Actually, it is not just his son's death which results in his views on the environment. It is his religious beliefs. He has toned it down a bit, but in the past, he has said that as a Christian, he could not stand by and watch destruction to God's creation, as it were. I'm totally paraphrasing, but something like that.

EDIT: I will add, although he may have an agenda, I still think he is an authority, on the grounds that EVERYONE has an agenda.

[Bubba]

Is it really necessary to connect the dots?

Yes, please provide the link that does so, pretty please?

On another note, it's no shock Exxon devotes millions of dollars to spread disinformation ... if we stop relying on oil, the company flounders! Seen the Apple/PC commercials lately? Apple spreads disinformation about PC's to increase the use of their product ... and guess what, it costs money! I can't think of any corporation that wouldn't do anything and everything to stay in business and increase profits, do you?

edit: Bubba, this is the second time you've beat me to the punchline on the Global Warming issue! Is it possible you're a skeptic like myself?

I think the facts are reasonably clear. The earth has been warming since the middle of the last ice age. Humans are a contributing factor to some extent. For example, there are now 6 billion of us, all exhaling CO2, as opposed to less than half that number 100 years ago. There are probably also more sheep, cows, and other methane producers around as well. All contribute their share of greenhouse gases.

Does modern human industrial society contribute? Sure? Should we take steps to reduce emissions? Absolutely! Those steps I would support include:

New base load electricity generation should be nuclear.

All new automobiles should be hybrids by 2015.

Gasoline taxes should be raised $.10 per year until 2015, with offsetting reductions in social security taxes so that lower income people are kept reasonably whole.

RustyK should be barred from drinking beer or other fluids or foods that contribute to his methane production. (Anyone at the Grist Mill on Saturday night will understand.)

I think those steps are both realistic and acceptable. I'm curious ... why raise the gas tax? Is this to push innovation? Where would the taxes be going? Perhaps to energy companies as an aid to help them with building and maintaining the Nuclear infrastructure that would hypothetically be in place?

So wait, you mean Manhattan will not be underwater by 2043?

Most of the country's greenhouse gas emissions come from the tailpipes of vehicles, not from stationary sources (or RustyK). You raise the price of gasoline to make it economically attractive to reduce its use. The money goes to social security, with an offsetting reduction in payroll taxes for lower income people.

[rogman]

Is it really necessary to connect the dots?

Yes, please provide the link that does so, pretty please?

On another note, it's no shock Exxon devotes millions of dollars to spread disinformation ... if we stop relying on oil, the company flounders! Seen the Apple/PC commercials lately? Apple spreads disinformation about PC's to increase the use of their product ... and guess what, it costs money! I can't think of any corporation that wouldn't do anything and everything to stay in business and increase profits, do you?

edit: Bubba, this is the second time you've beat me to the punchline on the Global Warming issue! Is it possible you're a skeptic like myself?

What scientific proof would you need? The fundamental flaw with reason is that it only works with reasonable people. Those that rely on "faith based" science, can't possibly be convinced, since they already "know" the answer. I'm not a huge fan of the "fear" based advertising that Apple employs, but it works, so they use it. None the less, I really think that is in a different category than misleading the public regarding peer reviewed science.

I have no idea what the right answer is for our long term energy needs. Solar, Wind, Nuclear? All have their problems. I also acknowledge that there may be nothing we can do about our present situation. We've certainly dug ourselves a pretty deep hole. But to insist that global warming is a hoax or that mankind has not had a significant effect on the environment is just being willfully ignorant.

[XtremeJibber2001]

This is frightening. You're citing Al Gore as an authority on Global Warming.

Um, actually he is an authority.

I disagree ... the definition of the word authority:

an expert whose views are taken as definitive

Gore has a bachelor of Arts in Government, hardly an expert or an authority on anything scientific.

Dude, WTF is wrong with you? Is your world so black and white for every f-ing thing?? Someone needs a degree to be an authority?? WTF!

That said, I do respect Bubba's assertion that he may not be an authority for other reasons. Actually, it is not just his son's death which results in his views on the environment. It is his religious beliefs. He has toned it down a bit, but in the past, he has said that as a Christian, he could not stand by and watch destruction to God's creation, as it were. I'm totally paraphrasing, but something like that.

We obviously come from different parts of life ...

It's not always black and white, but sometimes it is ... well ... because it is.

Does someone need a degree to be an authority? Not always, but it certainly depends, but in most cases, I personally feel the answer is yes.

My professors in college (Ph.D's) were "authorities" on their subject ... many of them had degrees in their field, practice and research in their field, and also hands-on experience in their field before becoming an authority figure and a professor.

Considering Gore's lack of degree in a science field, a lack of practice and research in the science field, and a lack of hands-on scientific experience, I feel he's merely an advocate, not an authority.

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why you personally feel he's an authority? After all, his own biography falls short of calling him an "authority".

[KBL Ed]

So it's settled: ax the r*in filter. Everyone use NCP instead.

[KBL Ed]

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why you personally feel he's an authority?

I've already said: because of all the research he has done.

After all, his own biography falls short of calling him an "authority".

It's called humility.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Is it really necessary to connect the dots?

Yes, please provide the link that does so, pretty please?

On another note, it's no shock Exxon devotes millions of dollars to spread disinformation ... if we stop relying on oil, the company flounders! Seen the Apple/PC commercials lately? Apple spreads disinformation about PC's to increase the use of their product ... and guess what, it costs money! I can't think of any corporation that wouldn't do anything and everything to stay in business and increase profits, do you?

edit: Bubba, this is the second time you've beat me to the punchline on the Global Warming issue! Is it possible you're a skeptic like myself?

What scientific proof would you need? The fundamental flaw with reason is that it only works with reasonable people. Those that rely on "faith based" science, can't possibly be convinced, since they already "know" the answer. I'm not a huge fan of the "fear" based advertising that Apple employs, but it works, so they use it. None the less, I really think that is in a different category than misleading the public regarding peer reviewed science.

I have no idea what the right answer is for our long term energy needs. Solar, Wind, Nuclear? All have their problems. I also acknowledge that there may be nothing we can do about our present situation. We've certainly dug ourselves a pretty deep hole. But to insist that global warming is a hoax or that mankind has not had a significant effect on the environment is just being willfully ignorant.

I don't agree/disagree with "faith based" science ... I personally feel that is a whole different discussion ... unrelated to Global Warming.

I haven't made the assertion that Global Warming is a hoax, I've actually said several time that Global Warming is occurring, but I'm curious what role we have in the warming. I never said that mankind has not had a significant effect on the environment, but I'm curious what level of effect have we had ... and the effect we have had, does this account for all the warming we've seen or a mere .01%?

You first asked "Is it really necessary to connect the dots?" I answered, Yes. You replied "What scientific proof would you need?"

I want a document that connects the dots. It should show what type of pollutants/toxins/carbon dioxides/carbon footprints we're leaving on Earth and what % of changes this directly accounts for. Then the document should outline what changes we can make and what changes we would see after adopting these changes. Essentially, I want a document/book/white papers/link to connect the dots.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why you personally feel he's an authority?

I've already said: because of all the research he has done.

After all, his own biography falls short of calling him an "authority".

It's called humility.

Can you link to some research that Gore has done? I did a Google for it, but I didn't find anything.

I certainly agree with the humility of ones biography, but most authority figures from my experience, advocate the fact that they're an authority figure because it provides them with credibility.

[Bubba]

Is it really necessary to connect the dots?

Yes, please provide the link that does so, pretty please?

On another note, it's no shock Exxon devotes millions of dollars to spread disinformation ... if we stop relying on oil, the company flounders! Seen the Apple/PC commercials lately? Apple spreads disinformation about PC's to increase the use of their product ... and guess what, it costs money! I can't think of any corporation that wouldn't do anything and everything to stay in business and increase profits, do you?

edit: Bubba, this is the second time you've beat me to the punchline on the Global Warming issue! Is it possible you're a skeptic like myself?

What scientific proof would you need? The fundamental flaw with reason is that it only works with reasonable people. Those that rely on "faith based" science, can't possibly be convinced, since they already "know" the answer. I'm not a huge fan of the "fear" based advertising that Apple employs, but it works, so they use it. None the less, I really think that is in a different category than misleading the public regarding peer reviewed science.

I have no idea what the right answer is for our long term energy needs. Solar, Wind, Nuclear? All have their problems. I also acknowledge that there may be nothing we can do about our present situation. We've certainly dug ourselves a pretty deep hole. But to insist that global warming is a hoax or that mankind has not had a significant effect on the environment is just being willfully ignorant.

I don't agree/disagree with "faith based" science ... I personally feel that is a whole different discussion ... unrelated to Global Warming.

I haven't made the assertion that Global Warming is a hoax, I've actually said several time that Global Warming is occurring, but I'm curious what role we have in the warming. I never said that mankind has not had a significant effect on the environment, but I'm curious what level of effect have we had ... and the effect we have had, does this account for all the warming we've seen or a mere .01%?

You first asked "Is it really necessary to connect the dots?" I answered, Yes. You replied "What scientific proof would you need?"

I want a document that connects the dots. It should show what type of pollutants/toxins/carbon dioxides/carbon footprints we're leaving on Earth and what % of changes this directly accounts for. Then the document should outline what changes we can make and what changes we would see after adopting these changes. Essentially, I want a document/book/white papers/link to connect the dots.

If you accept that man contributes even a little bit to global climate change, then that's all you need in order to conclude that we should take reasonable steps (as stewards of the planet) to reduce that impact. As one who tends to look at things in black and white and right and wrong, that should be good enough for you. We should, as good citizens of the planet Earth, use as little of Earth's resources as we can, waste as little as we can, be as efficient as we can in using resources and, clearly, pollute as little as we can. You should support doing this not because of global climate change but because, as one who looks at things in black and white and right and wrong, it's the right thing to do. Right? (or wrong?)

[johnny the jibber]

why is this thread so political?

[KBL Ed]

as one who looks at things in black and white and right and wrong, it's the right thing to do. Right? (or wrong?)

Great! It's settled: ax the r*in filter. Everyone use NCP instead.