KillingtonZone.com

salesmanny wrote:
skiingsnow wrote:
salesmanny wrote:
Last year at this time, Powdr's official attitude about snowmaking over Thanksgiving was that Killington was not going to make a lot of snow unless it was cold enough for it to last, because it was too expensive to make it if it wouldn't last. They were willing to give up early season business because they arrogantly thought they didn't need it and that it wouldn't impact on business later in the season.

I have already pointed out to you that this is not what Chris Nyberg said what so ever. You misunderstood comments directed at Snowshed and Ramshead. They were commited to all out snowmaking on Skye Peak, Killington Peak, and Snowdon Mountain, and they did indeed do just that. And they also starting snowmaking on Snowshed over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend.

Skiingsnow, I beg to disagree with you. On October 18th, 2007, Chris Nyberg was quoted in The Mountain Times regarding the upcoming early season snowmaking as follows: "At the moment, the plan is for snowmaking to begin at altitude in the Killington Peak area once stable temperatures permit. There will be no forced efforts in marginal temperatures to create “top of K1 Gondola to bottom of Snowshed” skiing prior to December 14."

I interpreted that as meaning that until December 14, 2007, Powdr's snowmaking efforts were going to be limited and not 100%, and certainly not "all out efforts" as you stated above. You are correct in stating that they planned on making snow on Skye Peak, Killington Peak, and Snowdon, but you neglected to also mention what Chris Nyberg said in his interview: "once stable temperatures permit." To me, that meant that if the temperatures were not "stable" (meaning continuously below freezing) over the Thanksgiving period, they wouldn't continue with their efforts, and certainly not the manner that ASC had made snow in previous years. Nyberg was quite clear in his meaning when he said "there will be no forced efforts in marginal temperatures." The emphasis should be on the words "forced efforts" and "marginal temperatures." Through December 14th, 2007, Powdr's plans for snowmaking last year only represented a partial effort, certainly not an "all out" effort that you describe.

I hate to agree with SkippySnow but I thought Killington did an excellent job with their fall snowmaking last year. The guns basically ran 24x7 for most of November and December. Don't forget how warm October was last year. The first couple of cold days were around Halloween and Killington made snow up on Rime. I hiked up and skied it. Sunday River got open but Killington can't since ASC screwed up the lift configuration for fall skiing. After a few warm days the first weekend in November, they resumed snowmaking and ran at full capacity through Christmas. They focused on advanced terrain similar to what Preston Smith used to do rather than the bone-headed ASC policy of trying to get Snowshed and Rams Head open before Thanksgiving only to have it melt out multiple times. The skiing was very good last Thanksgiving and the mountain was far less crowded than usual. My gripe last year was that they could have opened a week earlier than they did. I skied Sunday River instead. Killington would have been much better skiing if they hadn't been so stubborn about their opening date. Killington could have also opened Snowshed and Rams Head earlier. They had made the snow but refused to staff the base lodges and spin the lifts. Given the dramatic loss of skier visits in a year where their competition reported excellent numbers, one can expect a complete reversal of their inflexible opening and closing policy.

Geoff, I think you're right that management at Killington will be more flexible this year, and if I'm right, we'll all benefit as a result. Last year Powdr came out swinging with a "them versus us" attitude, and they really weren't interested in what we thought or what we wanted. Their "take no prisoners" attitude was all about what THEY wanted. I'm not saying that everything they did was bad, but there certainly were enough negaives to choke a horse. The first year of ownership for Powdr was a disaster, as they drove customers away en masse.

Perhaps it was the precipitous decline in their revenue and profits last year while the rest of the ski areas in Vermont experienced record growth, or perhaps it was SP Land's inability to get approval for their proposed Village, or perhaps it was the constant drone of unhappy customers who generated and perpetuated a ton of negative publicity, but whatever the reason, it seems that management has finally begun to see the light. Powdr has reversed some of their failed policies from last year, and I see that as a very positive first step.

I'm glad the mountain is offering the "Club Card" this year. Last year Powdr did everything humanly possible to DISCOURAGE ski clubs, but this year using the "Club Card," Killington is once again competitive with other New England mountains that offer bulk discount vouchers through the ski councils. I also believe K will open earlier this year than last, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they decide to stay open right through the month of April, if snow and skier numbers warrant it. From my perspective, it looks like Powdr is trying to swing the pendulum back towards the center.

For opening day this year (or at least opening day for me, which will be over Thanksgiving), I'll be up at Killington, and I'm very excited about it! I'm counting the days!

salesmanny wrote: Perhaps it was the precipitous decline in their revenue and profits last year while the rest of the ski areas in Vermont experienced record growth, or perhaps it was SP Land's inability to get approval for their proposed Village, or perhaps it was the constant drone of unhappy customers who generated and perpetuated a ton of negative publicity, but whatever the reason, it seems that management has finally begun to see the light. Powdr has reversed some of their failed policies from last year, and I see that as a very positive first step.

"Perhaps it was the precipitous decline in their revenue and profits last year"

Killington had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while!

"constant drone of unhappy customers"

Customer satisfaction was up, as reported by the same company that has done this at Killington in the past.

I'm probably late to this conversation, and what do I know anyway, however, it's my understanding this is a privately held company and no figures of any kind, not even skier visits, are released. How do you know "Killington had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while!" ?

Snowjob wrote:I'm probably late to this conversation, and what do I know anyway, however, it's my understanding this is a privately held company and no figures of any kind, not even skier visits, are released. How do you know "Killington had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while!" ?

Because he accepts public pronouncements without question.

I do believe, however, that they made money this year, that they were more profitable than in the several previous years, that yield per skier improved, but that total skier visits decreased by at least 50,000. Whether revenue increased or not is a question given that total skier visits obviously decreased but, with the increase in yield per skier, I would not be surprised to learn that revenue was equal or even slightly better than the year before.

Geez bubbs, don't give skippy the math to justify things. He'll be ranting for weeks about how the only reason the rest of the resorts in vermont showed an increase in skiers/revenues, was because those were the skiers that detoxified Killington. They had to go somewhere right?

skiingsnow wrote:"Perhaps it was the precipitous decline in their revenue and profits last year"

Killington had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while!

"constant drone of unhappy customers"

Customer satisfaction was up, as reported by the same company that has done this at Killington in the past.

Really? How do you know this for a fact?

ASC never provided the information, so I am curious as to how you are coming up with that statement?

Snowjob wrote:I'm probably late to this conversation, and what do I know anyway, however, it's my understanding this is a privately held company and no figures of any kind, not even skier visits, are released. How do you know "Killington had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while!" ?

Because Killington said they had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while! Killington Resort has also offered the town of Killington the skier visit total. . . . . They also reported another figure several months ago, $8,400,000, for improvements, mostly at Killington, after spending nearly $1,000,000 at Pico last year, which, oh yeah, another “figure“, Pico season pass sales are up, after its first profitable season in a while on a standalone basis.

SPORE wrote:
skiingsnow wrote:"Perhaps it was the precipitous decline in their revenue and profits last year"

Killington had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while!

"constant drone of unhappy customers"

Customer satisfaction was up, as reported by the same company that has done this at Killington in the past.
Really? How do you know this for a fact?

ASC never provided the information, so I am curious as to how you are coming up with that statement?

Both of these things are what Killington has communicated.

skiingsnow wrote:
Snowjob wrote:I'm probably late to this conversation, and what do I know anyway, however, it's my understanding this is a privately held company and no figures of any kind, not even skier visits, are released. How do you know "Killington had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while!" ?
Because Killington said they had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while! Killington Resort has also offered the town of Killington the skier visit total. . . . . They also reported another figure several months ago, $8,400,000, for improvements, mostly at Killington, after spending nearly $1,000,000 at Pico last year, which, oh yeah, another “figure“, Pico season pass sales are up, after its first profitable season in a while on a standalone basis.

And Rusty will tell you he's got an 11" cock, but that doesn't make it true...

Stormchaser wrote:
skiingsnow wrote:
Snowjob wrote:I'm probably late to this conversation, and what do I know anyway, however, it's my understanding this is a privately held company and no figures of any kind, not even skier visits, are released. How do you know "Killington had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while!" ?
Because Killington said they had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while! Killington Resort has also offered the town of Killington the skier visit total. . . . . They also reported another figure several months ago, $8,400,000, for improvements, mostly at Killington, after spending nearly $1,000,000 at Pico last year, which, oh yeah, another “figure“, Pico season pass sales are up, after its first profitable season in a while on a standalone basis.
And Rusty will tell you he's got an 11" cock, but that doesn't make it true...

Killington is the only one that can tell you about Killington.

I dont know where else you guys think this type of information is suppost to come from, except, uh, Killington.

Yous guys constantly saying "Killington has ALWAYS been profitable" , well, where did you get that information? Killington

skiingsnow wrote: They also reported another figure several months ago, $8,400,000, for improvements, mostly at Killington, after spending nearly $1,000,000 at Pico last year, which, oh yeah, another “figure“, Pico season pass sales are up, after its first profitable season in a while on a standalone basis.

What about season pass sales to Killington - up or down?

skiingsnow wrote:
Snowjob wrote:I'm probably late to this conversation, and what do I know anyway, however, it's my understanding this is a privately held company and no figures of any kind, not even skier visits, are released. How do you know "Killington had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! Even Pico made money for the first time in a while!" ?
Because Killington said they had a significant rise in revenue this past season!! And you believe this without question without data.

Even Pico made money for the first time in a while! They said this but we don't know it for a fact - meaining with real data. I, however, believe it since they cut costs dramatically by closing two days a week.

Killington Resort has also offered the town of Killington the skier visit total. . . . . Only if they kept it confidential, an offer which the Town did not accept.

They also reported another figure several months ago, $8,400,000, for improvements, mostly at Killington, You believe capital spending is based solely on profitability, a worthy leap of faith based on a misunderstanding of finance and accounting.

after spending nearly $1,000,000 at Pico last year, Not sure what your point is here nor do I know whether it's true. What I know is that one main snowmaking pipe cost over $300K. Not sure where the other almost $700K you say they spent went to.

which, oh yeah, another “figure“, Pico season pass sales are up, after its first profitable season in a while on a standalone basis. Source for the season pass figure please. I don't recall seeing that comment but I could've missed it.

so nobody knows for sure how many skier visits K had last season, still? you kidding bubba?

Coydog wrote:
skiingsnow wrote: They also reported another figure several months ago, $8,400,000, for improvements, mostly at Killington, after spending nearly $1,000,000 at Pico last year, which, oh yeah, another “figure“, Pico season pass sales are up, after its first profitable season in a while on a standalone basis.
What about season pass sales to Killington - up or down?

They were "a little soft". Discount card sales are up, which might be all people can afford these days....

But with revenue having been up a lot this past season, fewer passes sold still could equal more money than the previous seasons, or at least the same.

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