Anyone else bailing on 365?

[jimmywilson69]

6.8% seems super low...

Interesting

[hillbangin]

I own a 2nd home in VT. I am guessing two thirds of the money I spend in VT does not show up as tourist money. It show up in food gas taxes home Depot etc.

So that 7% number is low. Way low.

VT is dead with that 14 day quarantine.

Especially if the schools are closed in the fall.

Tumbleweeds.

Worse than 08.

[boston_e]

If 20% of Vermont housing is second homes, I wonder what percentage of those have their primary residence outside of Vermont? I’d guess a big percentage.

I wonder what exactly is calculated into tourism dollars?

As hillbsmgin mentioned, I’d guess the majority of our spend in Vermont does not show up in that column.

[Skivt2]

As someone who lived in Vermont 165 days a year before all of this I can tell you that we made an effort to try to buy everything in Vermont to support the community. All oddball goods we needed, we bought in VT. Like If we had to buy a snow shovel for CT we bought in VT. We only bought gas in VT. We only bought food in VT. We would hit the grocery store in Vermont in both directions. We would bring a cooler back and forth on purpose. All our alcohol consumption was in VT. We bought our snow tires in VT. We made a serious attempt to make deals to buy our cars in Vermont but never got the right deal. Just all that alone was easily $400-500 a week plus big oddball purchases like TV’s, Home Depot purchases etc. we liked to do that as it gave us the illusion that we were supporting “our” community. Multiply that times 20% of the households in VT and that’s a good deal of missing money right now in Vermont. Based on UVM plans for bringing the kids back in the fall it’s clear they expect the quarantine to last into September.

[hillbangin]

Vermont better get on the ball or they are going to lose more that passholders.

Even the governor of RI was smart enough to open up quicker than the rest of New England after having state police pull over out of state plates in March . They are opening up indoor dining for everyone next week. NO QUARANTINE.

They desperately needed the money and it's working out. Good for her. Much smarter than Mitt Romney Jr in MA who's allowing looting but not shopping and dining.

[Mister Moose]

More Vermont economy info:

Total employment (2016): 262,705

In 2015, Vermont was ranked by Forbes magazine as the 42nd best state in which to do business. It was 32nd in 2007, and 30th in 2006. In 2008 an economist said that the state had "a really stagnant economy, which is what we are forecasting for Vermont for the next 30 years." In May 2010 Vermont's 6.2% unemployment rate was the fourth lowest in the nation.

Industry ranked by dollar volume:
Government $3 billion (13.4%)
Real estate, rental, and leasing $2.6 billion (11.6%)
Durable goods manufacturing $2.2 billion (9.6%)
Health care and social assistance $2.1 billion (9.4%)
Retail trade $1.9 billion (8.4%)
Finance and insurance $1.3 billion (5.9%)
Construction $1.2 billion (5.5%)
Professional and technical services $1.2 billion (5.5%)
Wholesale trade $1.1 billion (5.1%)
Accommodations and food services $1 billion (4.5%)
Information $958 million (4.2%)
Non-durable goods manufacturing $711 million (3.1%)
Other services $563 million (2.4%)
Utilities $553 million (2.4%)
Educational services $478 million (2.1%)
Transportation and warehousing $484 million (2.1%)
Administrative and waste services $436 million (1.9%)
Agriculture, forestry, fishing, and hunting $375 million (1.6%)
Arts, entertainment, and recreation $194 million (.8%)
Mining $100 million (.4%)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you total all Retail, Accommodations and Food Services, and Arts Entertainment and Recreation, you get 3.1 Billion, or 14% of the economy, and not all of that is tourism related.

Look at it this way. Killington gets about 800,000 visits, which is about 20% of the state's visits. We know Killington did about 85 million in 2006. Adjusted for inflation, that's $111 million today. That implies the entire ski industry in the state does 5 times that, or $555 million. Add in the non resort activity of restaurants, ski shops and other retail, hotels and rentals. You're in the $1 Billion neighborhood, a very fine neighborhood, but still just 4% of the State GDP.

Vermont will feel the ski industry ups or downs, but not live or die by it. Not even close.

[daytripper]

Skiing is not Vermonts only form of tourism.

[Mister Moose]

Skiing is not Vermonts only form of tourism.

Right, but my $1B estimate puts perspective on the $2.2 Billion total for tourism from the State. The 2.2 figure passes the smell test.

[jimmywilson69]

good stuff moose...

Well if tourism is in that general range, then the 30 year forecast of stagnant economy really does make sense.

[newpylong1]

Vermont better get on the ball or they are going to lose more that passholders.

Even the governor of RI was smart enough to open up quicker than the rest of New England after having state police pull over out of state plates in March . They are opening up indoor dining for everyone next week. NO QUARANTINE.

They desperately needed the money and it's working out. Good for her. Much smarter than Mitt Romney Jr in MA who's allowing looting but not shopping and dining.

A little premature to say "it's working out" or that one governor is "smarter" than another at their handling of this. Unless of course "working out" is the sense of business returning to usual which of course is one metric.

[Skivt2]

Well here is some good news!

I received an email from Killington that said the quarantine for out of state residents ends on June 15th. So yay. No more worry about whether we can go to VT without judgement. Here comes the flood of tourists. Most of the 2nd homeowners will be responsible and safe since we at least used to feel we were part of the community. Some tourists will not act safely. So it’s probably time to be very careful in VT with interactions with people.

Edit..I just send an Email asking if Killington will be making an announcement soon dropping the quarantine requirement as a precondition if using their facilities.

[Mister Moose]

More data, in the 2019 calendar year:

Killington (The entire town) did 74.9 million dollars in taxable sales and use tax receipts. That would be lift tickets, hardware, ski equipment and clothing, taxable services, etc. That's 0.2% of the State total, and 4.8% of Rutland County.

Killington (The entire town) did 22.6M in meals (1.99% of the State total), 23.3M in rooms (3.7% of the State total) and 11.6M in alcohol (4.9% of the State total)

[boston_e]

Well here is some good news!

I received an email from Killington that said the quarantine for out of state residents ends on June 15th. So yay. No more worry about whether we can go to VT without judgement. Here comes the flood of tourists. Most of the 2nd homeowners will be responsible and safe since we at least used to feel we were part of the community. Some tourists will not act safely. So it’s probably time to be very careful in VT with interactions with people.

Edit..I just send an Email asking if Killington will be making an announcement soon dropping the quarantine requirement as a precondition if using their facilities.

That is good news, but it still does not address the concern of what if there is another spike in cases and Vermont re-implements this quarantine again. At least purchasing the pass in an option at this time... we just have to look at how much cost risk we area willing to take with the future unknown.

[daytripper]

Well here is some good news!

I received an email from Killington that said the quarantine for out of state residents ends on June 15th. So yay. No more worry about whether we can go to VT without judgement. Here comes the flood of tourists. Most of the 2nd homeowners will be responsible and safe since we at least used to feel we were part of the community. Some tourists will not act safely. So it’s probably time to be very careful in VT with interactions with people.

Edit..I just send an Email asking if Killington will be making an announcement soon dropping the quarantine requirement as a precondition if using their facilities.

That is good news, but it still does not address the concern of what if there is another spike in cases and Vermont re-implements this quarantine again. At least purchasing the pass in an option at this time... we just have to look at how much cost risk we area willing to take with the future unknown.

If on the monthly pass and they close and continue to charge you for the pass you could always just dispute the charge.

[boston_e]

Well here is some good news!

I received an email from Killington that said the quarantine for out of state residents ends on June 15th. So yay. No more worry about whether we can go to VT without judgement. Here comes the flood of tourists. Most of the 2nd homeowners will be responsible and safe since we at least used to feel we were part of the community. Some tourists will not act safely. So it’s probably time to be very careful in VT with interactions with people.

Edit..I just send an Email asking if Killington will be making an announcement soon dropping the quarantine requirement as a precondition if using their facilities.

That is good news, but it still does not address the concern of what if there is another spike in cases and Vermont re-implements this quarantine again. At least purchasing the pass in an option at this time... we just have to look at how much cost risk we area willing to take with the future unknown.

If on the monthly pass and they close and continue to charge you for the pass you could always just dispute the charge.

The concern isn’t if they close (they will stop billing for that as part of the pass holders promise), but if they are able to remain open but Vermont re-implements a 14 day quarantine requirement for those visiting from out of state.